XP Home to XP Pro Upgrade gone horribly wrong

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mike Miller
  • Start date Start date
M

Mike Miller

Hi,

I upgraded XP Home to XP Pro on my sony laptop recently.
It completed but now during boot I get a very quick error
message that says:

lsass.exe - system error:
not enough virtual memory or quota available to complete
the specified operation

The machine then hard boots itself and starts over. I had
to do this 5 times just to get the error message written down.

I've tried various things like repairing the install,
checking quotas (don't have any), deleting the page files,
freeing disk space, etc, but none have helped. This
problem makes my laptop a $2000 paperweight. =(

I believe the problem has something to do with the security
descriptors on the disk but I would like some guidance from
someone knowlegeable before changing them.
 
Mike said:
Hi,

I upgraded XP Home to XP Pro on my sony laptop recently.
It completed but now during boot I get a very quick error
message that says:

lsass.exe - system error:
not enough virtual memory or quota available to complete
the specified operation

The machine then hard boots itself and starts over. I had
to do this 5 times just to get the error message written down.

I've tried various things like repairing the install,
checking quotas (don't have any), deleting the page files,
freeing disk space, etc, but none have helped. This
problem makes my laptop a $2000 paperweight. =(

I believe the problem has something to do with the security
descriptors on the disk but I would like some guidance from
someone knowlegeable before changing them.

Follow the link below and scroll down to a reply by keith pickering.
http://x220.win2ktest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3292
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
It is always best to do a "clean" instal rather than an upgrade. I'd
suggest a new fresh install of XP Pro. that includes a HD format.
 
Scott said:
It is always best to do a "clean" instal rather than an upgrade. I'd
suggest a new fresh install of XP Pro. that includes a HD format.

It's not really always better to do a clean install, especially when
upgrading to XP. Consider that the XP upgrade backs up the data necessary to
upgrade, then deletes the Windows folder and installs a clean XP. Setup then
migrates the backup files into the clean XP.
How can a clean install be better when it would essentially cripple a system
that has bundled software available only if upgraded? What I find best is to
prep for a clean install but do the upgrade.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
It's better because there are no lingering bits and pieces of the previous
OS left. As for other software, you are right, it will have to be
re-installed. But this too ensures a fresh start with the registry values
in XP.
 
Scott said:
It's better because there are no lingering bits and pieces of the
previous OS left. As for other software, you are right, it will have
to be re-installed. But this too ensures a fresh start with the
registry values in XP.

No, it will be crippled, most software from restore disks can only be
installed by restoring to original system state. The software will need to
be repurchased.

--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
Scott said:
Crippled? Hardly. Besides, who said anything about restore software?

I did. You said it is "always" better to do a clean install. There are times
a clean install is not the best choice and will even cripple a system that
comes with bundled software only available from the restore media.
The XP upgrade is very much different from previous Windows upgrades, and
carries over very little unnecessary bit and pieces when done properly.
Properly done the XP upgrade and clean install are virtually the same in
stability, the main difference is the footprint.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
I did. You said it is "always" better to do a clean install. There are
times
a clean install is not the best choice and will even cripple a system that
comes with bundled software only available from the restore media.
The XP upgrade is very much different from previous Windows upgrades, and
carries over very little unnecessary bit and pieces when done properly.
Properly done the XP upgrade and clean install are virtually the same in
stability, the main difference is the footprint.

I completely disagree with your assesment of "cripple". My definition of a
crippled system is a sytem that "won't function". Installing a clean copy
of Windows will not cripple a machine. In fact, it will (in many cases)
take a crippled machine and bring it back to life. If there is OEM
software, then yes, that may be an issue, but OEM's tend to put critical
software like drivers on separate CD's that can be accessed without doing an
OS reinstall.

I understand your point and I'm not saying that you can't get a good install
from an upgrade. What I am saying is that you will get a leaner install
with less baggage from a clean install and that is why I believe it is
always the way to go. OEM installed software that requires me to re-install
the old OS is generally not critical software anyway. For example, a system
that has MS Office pre-installed will most likely ship with the Office
software on separate CD's that can be re-installed without having to put the
OS back.

As for the merits of a clean install vs. the upgrade, you said it yourself:

"... and carries over very little unnecessary bit and pieces when done
properly. Properly done the XP upgrade and clean install are virtually the
same in stability, the main difference is the footprint."

"very little unnecessary bit" is still some unecessary bits. A clean
install will carry exactly zero of the previous system into the new system.

"the main difference is the footprint." And thus, there is a difference.

IMHO :)
 
Ok, guys, I appreciate your time. My problem still isn't
completely solved yet though.

I agree that a clean install is better in general. But
there are other issues to consider. Sometimes devices
don't work (especially a laptop) after a clean install
because the oem performed some voodoo I won't know about.
I will never find out either, because talking to someone
who actually knows what they are talking about is
impossible with today's tech support system, unless your
account has billions in sales. Otherwise, I would be
gung-ho on fdisking and starting over.

Hell, if it was 98 to XP, that would be one thing, but
upgrading XP home to pro? Should be a matter of changing
some regkeys, bmps, and update a dll or two. Not this mess.

Turns out I gave up and did a clean install parallel with
the old one to help tronubleshoot anyway (thank you ntfs).
Guess what? the wireless and web cam didn't work
afterwards. I spent all day scouring the net finding out
how to get the wireless working, but the webcam, no dice.
Even copying the drivers and infs straight out of the old
install didnt work.

Of course sony, in their ultimate cheapness did not even
bother to include any restore media in the box, but that is
another issue. =( I don't care about reinstalling their
shovelware, but good device driver support is a must. I
will be in contact with them.

So I have two installs left. One with perfect device
support, but that won't boot, and another that works fine
without a working webcam. This is my travel laptop, and
actuall why I bought this model with webcam built in. It
is actually somewhat important to me (sigh).

Now back to the original problem. I searched google all
day looking up the lsass vm/quota problem, but none of the
suggestions worked. e.g. I tried repairing the install but
it didn't help. I already came across the discussion you
link to at win2ktest, but the suggestions offered didn't help.

I think the only way to fix it would be some advice from an
NT engineer, who can look at the source code and see what
the hell is up with lsass.exe, and what specifically it
wants and is not getting at that point in the code. Tech
helping newbie websites aren't gonna help with a problem
this specific and rare.

But, I know that is never gonna happen. I will wait and
hope sony comes out with new drivers for the webcam.
Perhaps the old ones don't support xp pro. If that doesn't
work, I may try restoring the partition to fat32 and see if
it clears the security problem.

Again, thanks for your time.
 
Ok, guys, I appreciate your time. My problem still isn't
completely solved yet though.

I agree that a clean install is better in general. But
there are other issues to consider. Sometimes devices
don't work (especially a laptop) after a clean install
because the oem performed some voodoo I won't know about.
I will never find out either, because talking to someone
who actually knows what they are talking about is
impossible with today's tech support system, unless your
account has billions in sales. Otherwise, I would be
gung-ho on fdisking and starting over.

Hell, if it was 98 to XP, that would be one thing, but
upgrading XP home to pro? Should be a matter of changing
some regkeys, bmps, and update a dll or two. Not this mess.

Turns out I gave up and did a clean install parallel with
the old one to help tronubleshoot anyway (thank you ntfs).
Guess what? the wireless and web cam didn't work
afterwards. I spent all day scouring the net finding out
how to get the wireless working, but the webcam, no dice.
Even copying the drivers and infs straight out of the old
install didnt work.

Of course sony, in their ultimate cheapness did not even
bother to include any restore media in the box, but that is
another issue. =( I don't care about reinstalling their
shovelware, but good device driver support is a must. I
will be in contact with them.

So I have two installs left. One with perfect device
support, but that won't boot, and another that works fine
without a working webcam. This is my travel laptop, and
actuall why I bought this model with webcam built in. It
is actually somewhat important to me (sigh).

Now back to the original problem. I searched google all
day looking up the lsass vm/quota problem, but none of the
suggestions worked. e.g. I tried repairing the install but
it didn't help. I already came across the discussion you
link to at win2ktest, but the suggestions offered didn't help.

I think the only way to fix it would be some advice from an
NT engineer, who can look at the source code and see what
the hell is up with lsass.exe, and what specifically it
wants and is not getting at that point in the code. Tech
helping newbie websites aren't gonna help with a problem
this specific and rare.

But, I know that is never gonna happen. I will wait and
hope sony comes out with new drivers for the webcam.
Perhaps the old ones don't support xp pro. If that doesn't
work, I may try restoring the partition to fat32 and see if
it clears the security problem.

Again, thanks for your time.
 
Ok, guys, I appreciate your time. My problem still isn't
completely solved yet though.

I agree that a clean install is better in general. But
there are other issues to consider. Sometimes devices
don't work (especially a laptop) after a clean install
because the oem performed some voodoo I won't know about.
I will never find out either, because talking to someone
who actually knows what they are talking about is
impossible with today's tech support system, unless your
account has billions in sales. Otherwise, I would be
gung-ho on fdisking and starting over.

Hell, if it was 98 to XP, that would be one thing, but
upgrading XP home to pro? Should be a matter of changing
some regkeys, bmps, and update a dll or two. Not this mess.

Turns out I gave up and did a clean install parallel with
the old one to help tronubleshoot anyway (thank you ntfs).
Guess what? the wireless and web cam didn't work
afterwards. I spent all day scouring the net finding out
how to get the wireless working, but the webcam, no dice.
Even copying the drivers and infs straight out of the old
install didnt work.

Of course sony, in their ultimate cheapness did not even
bother to include any restore media in the box, but that is
another issue. =( I don't care about reinstalling their
shovelware, but good device driver support is a must. I
will be in contact with them.

So I have two installs left. One with perfect device
support, but that won't boot, and another that works fine
without a working webcam. This is my travel laptop, and
actuall why I bought this model with webcam built in. It
is actually somewhat important to me (sigh).

Now back to the original problem. I searched google all
day looking up the lsass vm/quota problem, but none of the
suggestions worked. e.g. I tried repairing the install but
it didn't help. I already came across the discussion you
link to at win2ktest, but the suggestions offered didn't help.

I think the only way to fix it would be some advice from an
NT engineer, who can look at the source code and see what
the hell is up with lsass.exe, and what specifically it
wants and is not getting at that point in the code. Tech
helping newbie websites aren't gonna help with a problem
this specific and rare.

But, I know that is never gonna happen. I will wait and
hope sony comes out with new drivers for the webcam.
Perhaps the old ones don't support xp pro. If that doesn't
work, I may try restoring the partition to fat32 and see if
it clears the security problem.

Again, thanks for your time.
 
Scott said:
I completely disagree with your assesment of "cripple". My
definition of a crippled system is a sytem that "won't function".
Installing a clean copy of Windows will not cripple a machine.

If the person you recommend to clean install cannot use all the functions
they expected and the functions cannot even be accessed for install from the
supplied OEM media, I would consider the system they purchased crippled. A
system is not just the OS, it is the combination all hardware and software
working in unison. If you clean install and lose functionality you would
have if you choose to upgrade, you have crippled your system.
A functional software application can work and provide basic functions, but
not have the full capability unless certain requirements are met. I can't
dispute the fact a clean install will create a smaller footprint and will
not carryover any settings, data, information, or installed programs if you
elect to do a clean install. I am saying it is not always "better" or even
desirable to do so when upgrading a current system to XP.
In
fact, it will (in many cases) take a crippled machine and bring it
back to life.

Yes, but if the system included files that relied on the bundled software to
retrieve the information, unless that software was available the information
would be useless.
If there is OEM software, then yes, that may be an
issue, but OEM's tend to put critical software like drivers on
separate CD's that can be accessed without doing an OS reinstall.




I understand your point and I'm not saying that you can't get a good
install from an upgrade. What I am saying is that you will get a
leaner install with less baggage from a clean install and that is why
I believe it is always the way to go. OEM installed software that
requires me to re-install the old OS is generally not critical
software anyway. For example, a system that has MS Office
pre-installed will most likely ship with the Office software on
separate CD's that can be re-installed without having to put the OS
back.

I haven't noticed many OEM's doing more than supplying a system state
restore and see this as the norm for most systems. This is why I take
exception to the "it is ALWAYS best to clean install" recommendation. I
would much rather suggest the person do all the preparation as if they were
going to do a clean install, but do the upgrade if they have the choice.
As for the merits of a clean install vs. the upgrade, you said it
yourself:

"... and carries over very little unnecessary bit and pieces when done
properly. Properly done the XP upgrade and clean install are
virtually the same in stability, the main difference is the
footprint."

"very little unnecessary bit" is still some unecessary bits. A clean
install will carry exactly zero of the previous system into the new
system.

These unnecessary bits I reference are just that, they are just wasted space
that does not affect the working of the system. They are literally bits of
hard drive space unrelated to the performance or stability of the system. If
you have a system that hard drive space is of concern, then the system is
marginal for running XP in the first place. A troublesome Win 98 system will
most likely not be any better if upgraded OR clean installed to XP.

"the main difference is the footprint." And thus, there is a
difference.

I agree that is the difference, and if the system cannot handle the larger
footprint, perhaps the cost effective option would be to purchase an entry
level XP system. A cheap system purchased today with XP preinstalled with
bundled XP compatible software is much more cost effective than upgrading a
Win98/Me system along with the subsequent software and hardware upgrades.

Plus you could network the two systems for almost nothing.

--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
 
If the person you recommend to clean install cannot use all the functions
they expected and the functions cannot even be accessed for install from the
supplied OEM media, I would consider the system they purchased crippled.

Yes, the system they "purchased" is gone. That's the point! The point of
putting a new OS in place is to change that system.
A system is not just the OS, it is the combination all hardware and software
working in unison. If you clean install and lose functionality you would
have if you choose to upgrade, you have crippled your system.

You need to look up the definition of "cripple" as well as "operating
system". You are wrong. The operating system does not consist of software
that supplied additional functionality. MS Office is not part of my
operating system and my system is NOT crippled without it.

If I can't use the OEM supplied "Music Jukebox MP3 Player" accessory
software because it requires I put Win ME back on the computer, you know
what? I won't put it back on my system and I'll go download the newest
version from the manufacturer.

OEM's do not typically put critical software on the OS restore CD. They put
"accessory" software that is a dime a dozen (or actually, usually free to
download anyway). This software not being present in no way diminishes my
ability to use the system. As I said before, software that is "purchased"
(like MS Office or Lotus Suite, etc.) will be provided on separate CD's that
do not require an OS install.
A functional software application can work and provide basic functions, but
not have the full capability unless certain requirements are met.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. It sounds like more about not
having the OEM crap that I didn't need in the first place. Once again, the
"purchased" OEM supplied software (not the bundled stuff you can get for
free anyway) will be on its own installation CD, not the OS reinstall disc.
I can't dispute the fact a clean install will create a smaller footprint and will
not carryover any settings, data, information, or installed programs if you
elect to do a clean install. I am saying it is not always "better" or even
desirable to do so when upgrading a current system to XP.

To each his own. As I stated, there is nothing you could say that would
convince me to upgrade rather than do a clean install. I can't think of one
benefit from an upgrade.
Yes, but if the system included files that relied on the bundled software to
retrieve the information, unless that software was available the information
would be useless.

We're getting nowhere fast. Text files can be opened by any text editor,
audio & video files can be opened by a multitude of feely available
software. Sure, there are proprietary file formats and they fall into 1 of
2 categories:

1. Software that is garbage and can be freely gotten again somewhere else.
2. Software that was purchased and is supplied on a separate installation
CD and wouldn't require the OS be reinstalled to put it back in place.
I haven't noticed many OEM's doing more than supplying a system state
restore and see this as the norm for most systems. This is why I take
exception to the "it is ALWAYS best to clean install" recommendation. I
would much rather suggest the person do all the preparation as if they were
going to do a clean install, but do the upgrade if they have the choice.

Then you haven't bought or talked with someone who has bought a Dell in the
last several years. I think that years ago, it was the norm to get the
system restore discs (with ALL software on it) that you speak of. In the
last few years, it has become the norm not to do this anymore precisely
because of what you are saying, people getting pissed off that they can't
just install what they want.
These unnecessary bits I reference are just that, they are just wasted space
that does not affect the working of the system. They are literally bits of
hard drive space unrelated to the performance or stability of the system. If
you have a system that hard drive space is of concern, then the system is
marginal for running XP in the first place. A troublesome Win 98 system will
most likely not be any better if upgraded OR clean installed to XP.

Not true. These bits are taking up space that might otherwise be free (just
because I have a GB hard drive doesn't mean I want to have files that I have
no need for on my system), fragmenting my drive that might otherwise not be
fragmented and potentially going to cause version conflicts where none would
exist normally. Your statement about a troublesome Win 98 box not being a
good candidate for an XP upgrade really makes my point: It would be a VERY
POOR candidate for an upgrade, but it could very well become a much better
than before system by performing a clean install of XP (or even a clean 98
install).
I agree that is the difference, and if the system cannot handle the larger
footprint, perhaps the cost effective option would be to purchase an entry
level XP system. A cheap system purchased today with XP preinstalled with
bundled XP compatible software is much more cost effective than upgrading a
Win98/Me system along with the subsequent software and hardware upgrades.

You keep talking in terms of what the system can handle. Just because I
have space for uneccessary files doesn't mean it's good to have them. A
larger footprint for the sake of a larger footprint is a waste. There's no
reason to have it. It's not a matter of cost or capabilities, upgrades are
just not as efficient as clean installs are, that's why they are called
"clean".

:)
 
As per Microsoft web site, you cannot upgrade XP Home Servicepack 1 to XP Pro without a service pack. But there is a workaround to install a fresh copy of XP Pro, upgrade it to Servicepack 1 and install all the Sony drivers and Applications. I am compiling a document with the installation steps and the web links to download the necessary drivers for VAIO notebooks. I will post it as soon as it is ready

----- Scott M. wrote: ----
If the person you recommend to clean install cannot use all the function
they expected and the functions cannot even be accessed for install fro th
supplied OEM media, I would consider the system they purchased crippled

Yes, the system they "purchased" is gone. That's the point! The point o
putting a new OS in place is to change that system
A system is not just the OS, it is the combination all hardware an softwar
working in unison. If you clean install and lose functionality you woul
have if you choose to upgrade, you have crippled your system

You need to look up the definition of "cripple" as well as "operatin
system". You are wrong. The operating system does not consist of softwar
that supplied additional functionality. MS Office is not part of m
operating system and my system is NOT crippled without it

If I can't use the OEM supplied "Music Jukebox MP3 Player" accessor
software because it requires I put Win ME back on the computer, you kno
what? I won't put it back on my system and I'll go download the newes
version from the manufacturer

OEM's do not typically put critical software on the OS restore CD. They pu
"accessory" software that is a dime a dozen (or actually, usually free t
download anyway). This software not being present in no way diminishes m
ability to use the system. As I said before, software that is "purchased
(like MS Office or Lotus Suite, etc.) will be provided on separate CD's tha
do not require an OS install
A functional software application can work and provide basic functions bu
not have the full capability unless certain requirements are met

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. It sounds like more about no
having the OEM crap that I didn't need in the first place. Once again, th
"purchased" OEM supplied software (not the bundled stuff you can get fo
free anyway) will be on its own installation CD, not the OS reinstall disc
I can't dispute the fact a clean install will create a smaller footprin and wil
not carryover any settings, data, information, or installed programs i yo
elect to do a clean install. I am saying it is not always "better" or eve
desirable to do so when upgrading a current system to XP

To each his own. As I stated, there is nothing you could say that woul
convince me to upgrade rather than do a clean install. I can't think of on
benefit from an upgrade
t
retrieve the information, unless that software was available th informatio
would be useless

We're getting nowhere fast. Text files can be opened by any text editor
audio & video files can be opened by a multitude of feely availabl
software. Sure, there are proprietary file formats and they fall into 1 o
2 categories

1. Software that is garbage and can be freely gotten again somewhere else
2. Software that was purchased and is supplied on a separate installatio
CD and wouldn't require the OS be reinstalled to put it back in place
I haven't noticed many OEM's doing more than supplying a system stat
restore and see this as the norm for most systems. This is why I tak
exception to the "it is ALWAYS best to clean install" recommendation. I
would much rather suggest the person do all the preparation as if they were
going to do a clean install, but do the upgrade if they have the choice.

Then you haven't bought or talked with someone who has bought a Dell in the
last several years. I think that years ago, it was the norm to get the
system restore discs (with ALL software on it) that you speak of. In the
last few years, it has become the norm not to do this anymore precisely
because of what you are saying, people getting pissed off that they can't
just install what they want.
These unnecessary bits I reference are just that, they are just wasted space
that does not affect the working of the system. They are literally bits of
hard drive space unrelated to the performance or stability of the system. If
you have a system that hard drive space is of concern, then the system is
marginal for running XP in the first place. A troublesome Win 98 system will
most likely not be any better if upgraded OR clean installed to XP.

Not true. These bits are taking up space that might otherwise be free (just
because I have a GB hard drive doesn't mean I want to have files that I have
no need for on my system), fragmenting my drive that might otherwise not be
fragmented and potentially going to cause version conflicts where none would
exist normally. Your statement about a troublesome Win 98 box not being a
good candidate for an XP upgrade really makes my point: It would be a VERY
POOR candidate for an upgrade, but it could very well become a much better
than before system by performing a clean install of XP (or even a clean 98
install).
I agree that is the difference, and if the system cannot handle the larger
footprint, perhaps the cost effective option would be to purchase an entry
level XP system. A cheap system purchased today with XP preinstalled with
bundled XP compatible software is much more cost effective than upgrading a
Win98/Me system along with the subsequent software and hardware upgrades.

You keep talking in terms of what the system can handle. Just because I
have space for uneccessary files doesn't mean it's good to have them. A
larger footprint for the sake of a larger footprint is a waste. There's no
reason to have it. It's not a matter of cost or capabilities, upgrades are
just not as efficient as clean installs are, that's why they are called
"clean".

:)
 

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