XP crashes hourly

[Not so quick]

I updated the drivers, did a clean install on a different
hard drive. It still crashes. Which is more likely?

ATI video card or its drivers... I've always had problems
with this as it occasionally doesn't allow for two monitors
and installs an extra monitor, "generic" along with the
two plug and plays.

Logitech keyboard. It has a lot of extra function keys,
and I installed it about a month ago and haven't had any
problems up until 3 days ago. I've got the identical keyboard
on another machine running XP with no problems.

Logitech mouse. The last hardware installed. It has a bunch
of extra buttons and is USB connected with adaptor to
regular serial port.

Help. I'm wasting so much time.
Could it be the motherboard or memory? The error message
from Microsoft says it's a hardware driver but one of the times
it said it might be memory...

 

[*Vanguard*]

"Not so quick" said in news:4Ew6c.11507$xg.720@fed1read04:

I updated the drivers, did a clean install on a different
hard drive. It still crashes. Which is more likely?

ATI video card or its drivers... I've always had problems
with this as it occasionally doesn't allow for two monitors
and installs an extra monitor, "generic" along with the
two plug and plays.

Logitech keyboard. It has a lot of extra function keys,
and I installed it about a month ago and haven't had any
problems up until 3 days ago. I've got the identical keyboard
on another machine running XP with no problems.

Logitech mouse. The last hardware installed. It has a bunch
of extra buttons and is USB connected with adaptor to
regular serial port.

Help. I'm wasting so much time.
Could it be the motherboard or memory? The error message
from Microsoft says it's a hardware driver but one of the times
it said it might be memory...

Sounds more like you need to check your hardware. I have those
components you mention (ATI 9600 video, Logitech Navigator keyboard and
their cordless mouse using their Mouseware). Those don't cause hourly
crashes. More likely you have an underpowered power supply. Or temps
are high because a fan isn't spinning or spinning too slowly. Or the
fan came off the CPU heatsink. Or the jobber forgot to spread some heat
grease on the heatsink before placing it atop the CPU. Or you have a
thermally sensitive component, like the CPU or memory (i.e., a bad
part).

Does the system still crash if you boot using a DOS bootable floppy (get
'em at www.bootdisk.com)? Just let the computer sit at the DOS prompt
without running any programs for a few hours (i.e., reboot using the DOS
boot floppy and go to bed). Of course, I'd still peek inside to check
for dead or slow fans, heatsink dropped off, or other temperature
related causes since I certainly wouldn't want to fry my computer while
I was sleeping.

 

[S.Heenan]

I updated the drivers, did a clean install on a different
hard drive. It still crashes. Which is more likely?

ATI video card or its drivers... I've always had problems
with this as it occasionally doesn't allow for two monitors
and installs an extra monitor, "generic" along with the
two plug and plays.

Logitech keyboard. It has a lot of extra function keys,
and I installed it about a month ago and haven't had any
problems up until 3 days ago. I've got the identical keyboard
on another machine running XP with no problems.

Logitech mouse. The last hardware installed. It has a bunch
of extra buttons and is USB connected with adaptor to
regular serial port.

Help. I'm wasting so much time.
Could it be the motherboard or memory? The error message
from Microsoft says it's a hardware driver but one of the times
it said it might be memory...

Try Memtest ver3 from http://www.memtest86.com/ Boot from a floppy or
bootable CD. Press "C,2,3,Enter" the run the most exhaustive test. See what
your system temperature is with AIDA32 from www.aida32.hu
(My money is on bad memory)
Good luck

 

[Not so quick]

"Not so quick" said in news:4Ew6c.11507$xg.720@fed1read04:

Sounds more like you need to check your hardware. I have those
components you mention (ATI 9600 video, Logitech Navigator keyboard and
their cordless mouse using their Mouseware). Those don't cause hourly
crashes. More likely you have an underpowered power supply. Or temps
are high because a fan isn't spinning or spinning too slowly. Or the
fan came off the CPU heatsink. Or the jobber forgot to spread some heat
grease on the heatsink before placing it atop the CPU. Or you have a
thermally sensitive component, like the CPU or memory (i.e., a bad
part).

Does the system still crash if you boot using a DOS bootable floppy (get
'em at www.bootdisk.com)? Just let the computer sit at the DOS prompt
without running any programs for a few hours (i.e., reboot using the DOS
boot floppy and go to bed). Of course, I'd still peek inside to check
for dead or slow fans, heatsink dropped off, or other temperature
related causes since I certainly wouldn't want to fry my computer while
I was sleeping.

Can I trust the temp reports in the bios?

 

[*Vanguard*]

"Not so quick" said in news:8HT6c.11832$xg.9998@fed1read04:

Can I trust the temp reports in the bios?

Think of those measurements as accurate as the wall thermometer.
Probably close enough. Thermistors aren't linear in their change of
resistance with temperature so a table is needed to equate a certain
resistance with a temperature. For my Abit NF7-S, a BIOS update can
also result in changes in temperature readings because they decided the
table they used before didn't quite match the curve in the change of
resistance in the thermistor. I don't remember how much was the change,
but I remember reading about a couple of other users that flashed their
BIOS and the temperature readings changed significantly, like 5 degrees
C (but don't hold me to this as I'd have to go searching again for those
user reports). If, for example, you see a reading of 40 to 50 degrees C
on the CPU which is spec'ed for a max of 80 degrees C then you're pretty
sure that it's not the CPU getting overheated.

Note that running some applications will raise temperatures. Playing
games will raise the heat dissipated by both the CPU and GPU (on video
card). So you might be marginal on heat transfer away from the
processor and then decide to play a game which pushes it too far. Other
than defective components (no heat paste, stopped fan, bad part that is
out of spec for thermal stress), maybe you just need to get a better fan
or heatsink on the CPU, especially if overclocking anything.

 

[Not so quick]

Try Memtest ver3 from http://www.memtest86.com/ Boot from a floppy or
bootable CD. Press "C,2,3,Enter" the run the most exhaustive test. See what
your system temperature is with AIDA32 from www.aida32.hu
(My money is on bad memory)
Good luck

It was easier to download Microsoft's mem tester.
It ran overnight and didn't find any errors. Is that
good enough of a test or should I use the memtest86, too?

 

[S.Heenan]

Not so quick wrote:

It was easier to download Microsoft's mem tester.
It ran overnight and didn't find any errors. Is that
good enough of a test or should I use the memtest86, too?

I'm not familar with the testing method the MS utility uses. Perhaps your
RAM is OK. What do idle/load CPU temperatures look like ?

 

[CBFalconer]

It was easier to download Microsoft's mem tester.
It ran overnight and didn't find any errors. Is that
good enough of a test or should I use the memtest86, too?

Aren't you glad you saved that 20 or 50 dollars by not getting ECC
memory with your original system. If you had you would have been
able to either positively blame, or excuse, the memory system.

 

[Not so quick]

Aren't you glad you saved that 20 or 50 dollars by not getting ECC
memory with your original system. If you had you would have been
able to either positively blame, or excuse, the memory system.

What is EEC memory? I bought matching pair that cost
extra for something to do with duplex something or other...

 

[S.Heenan]

What is EEC memory? I bought matching pair that cost
extra for something to do with duplex something or other...

ECC means Error Correcting Code. It's a type of RAM which can correct one
bit errors and detect two bit errors, provided the memory controller
supports the function. Mostly found on server/workstation boards.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

What is EEC memory? I bought matching pair that cost
extra for something to do with duplex something or other...

For todays 64 bit wide Pentium memory systems, it means an extra 8
bits, making a 72 bit wide memory module. The extra bits can be
controlled and tested by an ECC capable memory controller (which
depends on the chip set, and you have to insist on getting this)
to detect and automatically correct all 1 bit errors, and detect
all 2 bit errors. To all practical purposes this makes memory
errors impossible.

For any width of memory you can get a good idea of the extra bits
needed to implement ECC by considering that the extra bits must be
able to point to any bit within the extended word to mark a single
bit correctable error. Thus 8 extra bits can point to 255 places
(besides no error) and are sufficient for a 64 + 8 = 72 bit wide
memory word.

Apart from volume considerations, the extra cost of ECC memory is
1 part in 8, or 12%. If everybody insisted on having it there
would be no volume considerations. However the cost cutters keep
the general public in ignorance, and the result is much agony,
wailing, loss of irretrievable data, and gnashing of teeth when
things go wrong.

Just as programming should put accuracy first, and then worry
about speed, hardware should put reliability first, and then worry
about speed and cost.

 

[Mike Walsh]

If the PC locks up, i.e. you can't use ctrl+alt+del to get to task manager, you most likely have a hardware problem such as bad memory. If you get a blue screen of death from a buggy driver it will give you the file name.

 

[Not so quick]

If the PC locks up, i.e. you can't use ctrl+alt+del to get to task

manager, you most likely have a hardware problem such as bad memory. If you
get a blue screen of death from a buggy driver it will give you the file
name.
I get reboots. Sometimes before the desktop comes up.

 

[S.Heenan]

I get reboots. Sometimes before the desktop comes up.

If the RAM and CPU temps check out, swap out the power supply.

 

[Not so quick]

Not so quick wrote:


I'm not familar with the testing method the MS utility uses. Perhaps your
RAM is OK. What do idle/load CPU temperatures look like ?

How do I check the CPU temps? It runs for hours
without problems if I don't do certain things like
do a search for files or try to view a video file or edit
one. It ran the RAM tests overnight and was still
cranking the next morning.

If it is the video card, is replacing it and seeing what
happens the logical next step? I know that sounds
really basic and obvious but I'm really not sure.
I did a driver update for the motherboard. It had this
same problem when I first bought the whole unit and
for some reason flashing the bios fixed it. I had to
flash back to a previous version.

 

[kony]

How do I check the CPU temps? It runs for hours
without problems if I don't do certain things like
do a search for files or try to view a video file or edit
one. It ran the RAM tests overnight and was still
cranking the next morning.

If it is the video card, is replacing it and seeing what
happens the logical next step? I know that sounds
really basic and obvious but I'm really not sure.
I did a driver update for the motherboard. It had this
same problem when I first bought the whole unit and
for some reason flashing the bios fixed it. I had to
flash back to a previous version.

Check it with http://www.memtest86.com

Run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics, available from their
website if you didn't receive a copy packaged with a retail drive.

 

[Gray asphaly \(formerly NSQ\)]

: I updated the drivers, did a clean install on a different
: hard drive. It still crashes. Which is more likely?
:
: ATI video card or its drivers... I've always had problems
: with this as it occasionally doesn't allow for two monitors
: and installs an extra monitor, "generic" along with the
: two plug and plays.
:
: Logitech keyboard. It has a lot of extra function keys,
: and I installed it about a month ago and haven't had any
: problems up until 3 days ago. I've got the identical keyboard
: on another machine running XP with no problems.
:
: Logitech mouse. The last hardware installed. It has a bunch
: of extra buttons and is USB connected with adaptor to
: regular serial port.
:
: Help. I'm wasting so much time.
: Could it be the motherboard or memory? The error message
: from Microsoft says it's a hardware driver but one of the times
: it said it might be memory...
:
:

I gave up and went to the repair shop. Everything was stripped
from the box, even sound and all but one USB card. The tech
installed a fresh XP on one of his drives connected to my machine.
We were ready to replace the motherboard when he tried setting
the bios to defaults. It's been running ever since.