WinXP keeps freezing/crashing after last night's automatic Windows Update & Restart - please help

A

Adam

Host OS: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
Guest OS: Windows XP Pro SP3

WinXP keeps freezing/crashing today after last night's
automatic Windows Update & Restart.
I was using MS Excel when the system crashed. Then,
after restarting, it froze after opening a TIFF file.

Any ideas?

Constructive posts will be much appreciated.
 
M

mike

Host OS: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
Guest OS: Windows XP Pro SP3

WinXP keeps freezing/crashing today after last night's
automatic Windows Update& Restart.
I was using MS Excel when the system crashed. Then,
after restarting, it froze after opening a TIFF file.

Any ideas?

Constructive posts will be much appreciated.
I turn off automatic updates for Ubuntu...and all other
systems.
After a massive update, you never know which caused the
problem or even IF the update caused the problem.
There are no coincidences...except when there are...
I do an image backup before installing anything.

Since this is a ubuntu forum, do the ubuntu things first.
I'd copy the virtual drive and host it on a windows
system. If it's still bad, put it back on the linux
box and start backing out updates.
Or better yet, go find a windows forum at the actual
M$ webpage and see if anybody
else has the problem. Update booboos often get fixed
rapidly...although sometimes by disabling a feature that
used to work but don't any more, for your security.

Last time I looked, M$ had pretty much abandoned usenet
in favor of a forum they could "moderate".

Since this is a ubuntu forum, I'd be interested to know
why you think you need XP at all. OpenOffice or any
of its clones are M$Office compatible.
Is there something you can't do with linux? Be specific...and
thorough... ;-)
 
A

Adam

mike said:
I turn off automatic updates for Ubuntu...and all other
systems.
After a massive update, you never know which caused the
problem or even IF the update caused the problem.
There are no coincidences...except when there are...
I do an image backup before installing anything.

Since this is a ubuntu forum, do the ubuntu things first.
I'd copy the virtual drive and host it on a windows
system. If it's still bad, put it back on the linux
box and start backing out updates.
Or better yet, go find a windows forum at the actual
M$ webpage and see if anybody
else has the problem. Update booboos often get fixed
rapidly...although sometimes by disabling a feature that
used to work but don't any more, for your security.

Last time I looked, M$ had pretty much abandoned usenet
in favor of a forum they could "moderate".

Since this is a ubuntu forum, I'd be interested to know
why you think you need XP at all. OpenOffice or any
of its clones are M$Office compatible.
Is there something you can't do with linux? Be specific...and thorough...
;-)

Thanks, those are good suggestions.
My WinXP has NEVER crashed/froze until
after last night's Windows Update.

And, if it were totally up to me, I would love to do everything in
ONE OS. However, there are forces around me that
does not allow me to do that (if you know what I mean).
That's the way the world goes. Can't have things the way you want ALL the
time.
 
P

Paul

Adam said:
Thanks, those are good suggestions.
My WinXP has NEVER crashed/froze until
after last night's Windows Update.

And, if it were totally up to me, I would love to do everything in
ONE OS. However, there are forces around me that
does not allow me to do that (if you know what I mean).
That's the way the world goes. Can't have things the way you want ALL the
time.

<<Repost - other attempt may not get through...>>

Yesterday was (Windows) Patch Tuesday for the month of June. There
are ten items in the queue for my machine (not yet applied). Some
have been sitting there for a while, so don't really count
as new items. Maybe half of them are new for this month.
And sometimes, even though there are multiple of them,
they're caused by the same root exposure.

If you have System Restore turned on, the computer may have
made a restore point just before applying the patches. It's possible,
if you could start WinXP in Safe Mode, you could use rstrui to return
to the state before Patch Tuesday. As I understand it, if you
do System Restore from Safe Mode, you can't revert the
restoration. Whereas, a System Restore done from Normal mode,
you can undo it and return to "today's condition". If you
return the machine to yesterday's condition, you could lose
any files created outside of My Documents. (Documents inside
My Documents are not tracked, so won't appear or disappear
because of a System Restore point application.) If you keep a
Downloads folder outside My Documents, then it would revert
to yesterdays state, and you could lose a couple downloads.
(That's how I figured this out for myself once - stuff went
missing.)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304449

Looking at the first interesting patch KB2707511, it says that
one involves a change to the kernel. And an exposure in BIOS
memory (probably below 640K). I could see a change down there,
perhaps tipping something over. Or, if the WinXP install
was already compromised by malware, sometimes these kinds
of updates, actually fail/get snagged, because the
malware causes the condition. So rather than Windows
"tipping over", it's the malware that gets whacked in the
head and causes the machine to crash. The last time this
happened, a Windows update caused machines already suffering
from a TDSS root kit, to crash. So rather than Microsoft
being directly responsible, it was TDSS that did it. And
the authors of the TDSS malware pushed out a change in
a few days, so their infected machines wouldn't be harmed
by the Windows update, and Windows Update would stop crashing
the computers. In that case, Microsoft may have had some idea
that would happen (they were probably aware of the possibility),
but didn't bother to push out a pre-check that the machine
wasn't infected. It sure was a good way to get people's attention,
because it caused a few people who didn't know they had a root kit
present, to "wake up".

You can do an offline scan for malware, using the Kaspersky CD. It
should run fine within a VM, and you'd be able to scan the now
non-bootable WinXP partition and look for malware.

http://support.kaspersky.com/viruses/rescuedisk/main?qid=208286083

"Iso image of Kaspersky Rescue Disk 10 (237 MB)"

That is basically a LiveCD using Gentoo, plus an executable that
starts automatically, and will scan for Windows malware.

If you need it, Kaspersky also makes a "TDSSKiller", but at
this point, we don't know if that has anything to do with
your predicament or not.

http://support.kaspersky.com/viruses/solutions?qid=208280684

It'll probably take a few more days, of crash reports, before
somebody figures out how the Windows Update is breaking things.

Paul
 
D

Dan C

WinXP keeps freezing/crashing today after last night's automatic Windows
Update & Restart.
I was using MS Excel when the system crashed. Then, after restarting,
it froze after opening a TIFF file.

Any ideas?

This is normal behavior for ExPee.

Bugger off, Win-droid troll.
 
D

Darklight

Adam said:
Thanks, those are good suggestions.
My WinXP has NEVER crashed/froze until
after last night's Windows Update.

And, if it were totally up to me, I would love to do everything in
ONE OS. However, there are forces around me that
does not allow me to do that (if you know what I mean).
That's the way the world goes. Can't have things the way you want ALL the
time.

what virtual software are you using?
 
A

Alias

This is normal behavior for ExPee.

Actually, it isn't. I haven't had one single problem with Windows
Updates since 1997 with Windows 95, 98, 98SE, Me, 2000, XP or 7. As
usual, you don't know what the **** you're talking about.
Bugger off, Win-droid troll.

You're a pathetic and sad one trick pony.
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

Host OS: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
Guest OS: Windows XP Pro SP3

WinXP keeps freezing/crashing today after last night's automatic Windows
Update & Restart.
I was using MS Excel when the system crashed. Then, after restarting,
it froze after opening a TIFF file.

Any ideas?

Constructive posts will be much appreciated.

Are you using KVM or VirtualBox? I have XP on KVM and it did the automatic
update last night and it seems fine.

Do you have a backup of the XP VM? I'd copy my backup to the VM and then
turn off automatic updates and then do the updates one at a time to see
which one was the culprit.
 
A

Adam

Paul said:
<<Repost - other attempt may not get through...>>

Yesterday was (Windows) Patch Tuesday for the month of June. There
are ten items in the queue for my machine (not yet applied). Some
have been sitting there for a while, so don't really count
as new items. Maybe half of them are new for this month.
And sometimes, even though there are multiple of them,
they're caused by the same root exposure.

If you have System Restore turned on, the computer may have
made a restore point just before applying the patches. It's possible,
if you could start WinXP in Safe Mode, you could use rstrui to return
to the state before Patch Tuesday. As I understand it, if you
do System Restore from Safe Mode, you can't revert the
restoration. Whereas, a System Restore done from Normal mode,
you can undo it and return to "today's condition". If you
return the machine to yesterday's condition, you could lose
any files created outside of My Documents. (Documents inside
My Documents are not tracked, so won't appear or disappear
because of a System Restore point application.) If you keep a
Downloads folder outside My Documents, then it would revert
to yesterdays state, and you could lose a couple downloads.
(That's how I figured this out for myself once - stuff went
missing.)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304449

Looking at the first interesting patch KB2707511, it says that
one involves a change to the kernel. And an exposure in BIOS
memory (probably below 640K). I could see a change down there,
perhaps tipping something over. Or, if the WinXP install
was already compromised by malware, sometimes these kinds
of updates, actually fail/get snagged, because the
malware causes the condition. So rather than Windows
"tipping over", it's the malware that gets whacked in the
head and causes the machine to crash. The last time this
happened, a Windows update caused machines already suffering
from a TDSS root kit, to crash. So rather than Microsoft
being directly responsible, it was TDSS that did it. And
the authors of the TDSS malware pushed out a change in
a few days, so their infected machines wouldn't be harmed
by the Windows update, and Windows Update would stop crashing
the computers. In that case, Microsoft may have had some idea
that would happen (they were probably aware of the possibility),
but didn't bother to push out a pre-check that the machine
wasn't infected. It sure was a good way to get people's attention,
because it caused a few people who didn't know they had a root kit
present, to "wake up".

You can do an offline scan for malware, using the Kaspersky CD. It
should run fine within a VM, and you'd be able to scan the now
non-bootable WinXP partition and look for malware.

http://support.kaspersky.com/viruses/rescuedisk/main?qid=208286083

"Iso image of Kaspersky Rescue Disk 10 (237 MB)"

That is basically a LiveCD using Gentoo, plus an executable that
starts automatically, and will scan for Windows malware.

If you need it, Kaspersky also makes a "TDSSKiller", but at
this point, we don't know if that has anything to do with
your predicament or not.

http://support.kaspersky.com/viruses/solutions?qid=208280684

It'll probably take a few more days, of crash reports, before
somebody figures out how the Windows Update is breaking things.

Paul

Thanks (Guru Paul), running Kaspersky Rescue Disk (all night) did not find
any real Windows malware on the system. Good thing you reposted since
this is the first post I've seen from you for this thread.

FYI, Ubuntu Update Manager also pulled down some updates today.
But, that's not likely to be the problem.
 
A

Adam

General Schvantzkoph said:
Are you using KVM or VirtualBox? I have XP on KVM and it did the automatic
update last night and it seems fine.

Do you have a backup of the XP VM? I'd copy my backup to the VM and then
turn off automatic updates and then do the updates one at a time to see
which one was the culprit.

Thanks, will do. I'm using VirtualBox.
 
A

Adam

Adam said:
Thanks (Guru Paul), running Kaspersky Rescue Disk (all night) did not find
any real Windows malware on the system. Good thing you reposted since
this is the first post I've seen from you for this thread.

Correction ...

FYI, Ubuntu Update Manager also pulled down some updates yesterday
(Wednesday).
But, that's not likely to be the problem.
 
D

Dan C

Actually, it isn't. I haven't had one single problem with Windows
Updates since 1997 with Windows 95, 98, 98SE, Me, 2000, XP or 7.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Liar.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Dan said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Liar.

I have to agree. WinXP SP3 didn't go smoothly on a number of AMD
systems. But then again if he fell for the marketing treacle and
actually bought ME, well that says it all.
 
A

Alias

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Liar.

Sorry to disappoint you but it's true. The only time I've had problems
with Windows was with hardware going south, never with software, be it
Windows software or otherwise. Once the hardware was sorted out, Windows
just kept on keeping on. Course, unlike you, the one trick pony, I know
what I'm doing with Windows.
 
A

Alias

I have to agree. WinXP SP3 didn't go smoothly on a number of AMD
systems.

I've installed Win XP SP3 on many AMD systems with no problems. You
probably don't know how to install SP3 so, naturally, you had problems.
But then again if he fell for the marketing treacle and
actually bought ME, well that says it all.

I didn't care for Windows Me but it didn't give any problems other than
having to reboot a lot due to memory loss. I soon went over to Windows
2000. I didn't fall for the "marketing treacle", I got it on a new
computer which soon after was updated to Windows 2000 and, later, XP
and, get this, it was an AMD system.
 
M

Michael T.

Alias said:
Sorry to disappoint you but it's true. The only time I've had problems
with Windows was with hardware going south, never with software, be it
Windows software or otherwise. Once the hardware was sorted out, Windows
just kept on keeping on. Course, unlike you, the one trick pony, I know
what I'm doing with Windows.

There was a problem last month where many users could not get Windows Update
to stop trying to install three .NET Framework updates.
http://tinyurl.com/82x8w9j

But I agree with you that situations like these are few and far between in
my experience on a number of Dell desktops and laptops I have used the last
10 years.
 
A

Alias

There was a problem last month where many users could not get Windows Update
to stop trying to install three .NET Framework updates.
http://tinyurl.com/82x8w9j

Users using Norton and who don't know how to prepare for Windows Updates.
But I agree with you that situations like these are few and far between in
my experience on a number of Dell desktops and laptops I have used the last
10 years.

There are some things MS does right and updates is one of them. There
are too many people who use Windows for critical work so they take care
to test them thoroughly.
 
D

Dan C

Sorry to disappoint you but it's true. The only time I've had problems
with Windows was with hardware going south, never with software, be it
Windows software or otherwise. Once the hardware was sorted out, Windows
just kept on keeping on.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Liar.

I know what I'm doing with Windows.

That I might believe. You're a Win-droid, after all.

Bugger off, Win-droid troll. This is a Linux newsgroup.
 

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