Windows XP 64-bit and Longhorn

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Very true.
It will be released only when Microsoft is ready to release it.
Whether it is in 6 months or 36 months only Microsoft knows.
BTW, I assume you meant "NDA" instead of "DNA"

 

[Kelly]

My bad, Mat.....have been watching Court TV. <w> Actually, it is the only
thing I watch while cooking supper. Ok.....and some HGTV. )

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Ron Martell]

None to bother. What difference does this make? When it is out, it is out.
Those in Beta can speak; however, we are deemed to DNA.

Or as another MVP has said on many occasions:

"Those who know cannot say
Those who say cannot know."


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

 

[Kelly]

Uhm....sounds like a line from RH? )

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Armand Hammer]

Don't really care who you work for. I guess only time will tell.

 

[Armand Hammer]

So why do you have one person saying its a definate and another saying it
will be out when its ready?

 

[Armand Hammer]

What if the beta has problems?

Your sources are wrong.
My source is the entire program management team for the Windows division
within my company Microsoft.
Windows "Longhorn" (client) will enter Beta 1 this summer and ship in
2006...

--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
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[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"So why do you...", I don't have anyone saying anything.
Who is "one person" and who is "another"?
Your question is way to vague to answer.
Once you answer that question, the answer may be obvious to you.

 

[Armand Hammer]

You confidence is very false. Check these references out:

1. During his WinHEC keynote address on May 7, 2003, Will Poole, the Senior
Vice President of the Windows Client Division at Microsoft, revealed the
roadmap for longhorn, setting the final release date of the product firmly
in 2005, two years from now.

2. In 2004, the long-awaited Longhorn beta will finally kick off. "Over the
course of 2004 you'll see a couple of releases in the betas for Longhorn,"
Poole noted, and his presentation specifically mentions Longhorn Beta 1 and
Longhorn Beta 2 occurring in 2004. This scheduled was corroborated at
Microsoft's annual Financial Analysts Meeting in July 2003.

3. http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_07.png

Now granted I haven't heard back from my source as he is away, but even some
basic web searches alread indicate Longhorn is at least a year behind. I
have shown that one should not have confidence in Microsofts dates, what
have you proven?

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

What if the beta has problems?

That is the point of having a year from Beta 1 to RTM.
Time to work out the product, finish development and polish for release.

--

Regards,

Mike
--
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[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

You are referencing plans.
Microsoft makes it clear everything is subject to change.
Or can you post a reference where it was stated and guaranteed by Microsoft
that these timelines were absolutely firm.
Whenever a new or updated product is announced, 3rd parties always try to
get the latest information sooner.
It sometimes suits their agenda if they quote a firm date that was not so
firm when it came from Microsoft.
Then when the 3rd party is called because their information is incorrect, it
is easy to blame Microsoft for letting the date slip when often no promises
were given and nothing public has slipped at all.

Or do you want a firm date that is held regardless if the product is ready
or not?
No matter what Microsoft does, they lose.

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

You confidence is very false. Check these references out:

1. During his WinHEC keynote address on May 7, 2003, Will Poole, the
Senior Vice President of the Windows Client Division at Microsoft,
revealed the roadmap for longhorn, setting the final release date of the
product firmly in 2005, two years from now.

Comments made 2 years ago are no longer relevant the Longhorn project has
changed radically since then and is now much more further advanced - so we
can be more definite on our plans and shipping time frames.

2. In 2004, the long-awaited Longhorn beta will finally kick off. "Over
the course of 2004 you'll see a couple of releases in the betas for
Longhorn," Poole noted, and his presentation specifically mentions
Longhorn Beta 1 and Longhorn Beta 2 occurring in 2004. This scheduled was
corroborated at Microsoft's annual Financial Analysts Meeting in July
2003.

Again 2 years ago - plans change in the extremely early stages of
development. We are now much closer to the final feature set and code is
well under way - Beta 1 is getting very close then onwards to Beta 2 a
number of Release Candidates then RTM.
It may not look like it from the outside but working where an I do and with
the information I see, 2006 is a good bet for RTM

3. http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_07.png

Now granted I haven't heard back from my source as he is away, but even
some basic web searches alread indicate Longhorn is at least a year
behind. I have shown that one should not have confidence in Microsofts
dates, what have you proven?

A year behind what ? Yes plans change again citing comment made 2 years ago
are no longer relevant - the product was still on the drawing board - where
we are now the picture is clear and the path laid out - being able to run
the code every day on your PC is a world away from talk, plans and
whiteboards full of ideas.
This is the nature of massive software development projects - lots of shift
and change at the front end then as you progress you can be firmer and
firmer on dates, features etc.

I really don't need to prove anything as my only evidence is internal
Microsoft confidential project plans, status reports, updates and builds.

--

Regards,

Mike
--
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[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

So why do you have one person saying its a definate and another saying it
will be out when its ready?

Out when its ready is with regard to the final sign off to he the hopefully
final build and there is always a little leeway around that - but you still
have to have targets and milestones and your software development plans are
geared towards producing something that IS ready by a target date and all
the testing etc leads up to the at point so the final signoff is usually
without issue - since you have had teams testing every build up to your
final few releases candidates.

If you have every been involved in large scale software engineering projects
this is all a lot clearer

--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

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[Armand Hammer]

I have no doubt how complicate large scale software projects can be. I have
been involved in building projects and the problem is one area that is
having problems can hold back other areas too. I would assume it is
somewhat similar. I also know there must be targets, but Microsoft has
shown great difficulty attaining these targets. Even by your own admission
despite the target is only that and anything can happen in the next year.
Your rah rah team attitude is great but does nothing to actually achieve the
goal.

BTW At Win HEC 2003 didn't they announce Longhorn for late 2004?

 

[Armand Hammer]

No, I do not want longhorn out at any cost. I even doubt I will be an early
adopter on it. In fact I won't even consider it until I have confidence 3
programs I consistantly run will operate with it. Personally I want to see
more and more programs and a more complete OS for 64 bit processors but I am
digressing.

All that being said Microsoft can change and cut back Longhorn as much as
they want. The original post I answered stated Longhorn will not be out
next year and I stand by that statement.

As far ar 3rd party info goes, I have quotes right from Microsoft, if they
were not true, I would think they would want retractions as this is losing
them creditabilty.

 

[Armand Hammer]

When they made comments at anytime in the past they were just as relevant as
comments made today and tommorrow. Only time will tell what will happen to
any comment made. My point is, if they could be so off in previously made
comments, how can we accept current comments at face value? This is what
you cannot understand. Mark my works. Longhorn will not ship next year(I
will put out one qualifier and that it will not ship out with out a dramatic
removal of features).

Keep in mind, my source is unavailable and my info today is off of a quick
websearch.


Here is another quote from WinHEC 2002:

Mike Toutonghi, corporate vice president of the Windows eHome Division, was
a little more specific about both the Longhorn timeline and the features we
can expect in the release. Toutonghi delivered his comments during a Tuesday
morning session about new media opportunities and challenges in the
connected home. "Longhorn will ship in the second half of 2004," Toutonghi
said. "It will deliver the next generation of communications and
collaboration experiences, streaming audio/video [A/V] functionality,
integrated device connectivity, simplified networking, and tools to help
Microsoft deliver on our promise of the connected home."

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

That is all fine and good.
But now it seems you are using sources with 2 year old information and
possibly other sources you are afraid to list.

The fact remains Microsoft will release a product when Microsoft is ready.
Whether Longhorn is out in 2006 , 2007 or later, I do not know.
But you are clearly guessing and stating as fact and backing that up with
nothing which make it no more than a guess for you.

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

No, I do not want longhorn out at any cost. I even doubt I will be an
early adopter on it. In fact I won't even consider it until I have
confidence 3 programs I consistantly run will operate with it. Personally
I want to see more and more programs and a more complete OS for 64 bit
processors but I am digressing.

All that being said Microsoft can change and cut back Longhorn as much as
they want. The original post I answered stated Longhorn will not be out
next year and I stand by that statement.

As far ar 3rd party info goes, I have quotes right from Microsoft, if they
were not true, I would think they would want retractions as this is losing
them creditabilty.

You have absolutly no basis for your statement about us not being able to
deliver on our current plans (not ones from 3 years ago) by next year.
Hear say conjecture and rumour do not make for any substance.
The project is proceeding to plan - since you are not on the inside you have
no way of knowing other then what I can tell you.
As of right now - Windows Longhorn client is on track to ship in 2006.

It is not about retractions - but as I have already mentioned in massive
projects you can change your plans so a statement made 2 years has pretty
much zero relevance to the current state of play.
--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
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[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

When they made comments at anytime in the past they were just as relevant
as comments made today and tommorrow.

The point you are missing is that any comment is only as good as the
information behind it. A comment made 2 years ago about a projected product
that had not a line of code written for it and was just a whiteboard
exercise is not as strong as one made with the full project underway,
thousand of developers coding millions of lines of code for a product that
is almost Beta 1 ready and in use on hundreds of machines everyday.

Only time will tell what will happen to any comment made. My point is, if
they could be so off in previously made comments, how can we accept
current comments at face value?

See my point above

This is what you cannot understand. Mark my works. Longhorn will not
ship next year(I will put out one qualifier and that it will not ship out
with out a dramatic removal of features).

I'm sorry but you and your source are not in pocession of all the facts and
aware of the full picture to make such a statement. I am.
Also since you are not aware of the previous planned feature list you are no
position to say we will cut features - in fact we already have in the case
of WinFS etc.

Keep in mind, my source is unavailable and my info today is off of a quick
websearch.

Unless your resource is one of the lead Windows "Longhorn" program managers
or Bryan Valentine then (s)he is not relevant or authoritative.
(If your source is another Microsoft employee please name them and I will
gladly speak to them to make them aware of the facts they evidently are not
aware of.)

--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

When they made comments at anytime in the past they were just as relevant
as comments made today and tommorrow. Only time will tell what will
happen to any comment made. My point is, if they could be so off in
previously made comments, how can we accept current comments at face
value? This is what you cannot understand. Mark my works. Longhorn will
not ship next year(I will put out one qualifier and that it will not ship
out with out a dramatic removal of features).

Keep in mind, my source is unavailable and my info today is off of a quick
websearch.


Here is another quote from WinHEC 2002:

Mike Toutonghi, corporate vice president of the Windows eHome Division,
was a little more specific about both the Longhorn timeline and the
features we can expect in the release. Toutonghi delivered his comments
during a Tuesday morning session about new media opportunities and
challenges in the connected home. "Longhorn will ship in the second half
of 2004," Toutonghi said. "It will deliver the next generation of
communications and collaboration experiences, streaming audio/video [A/V]
functionality, integrated device connectivity, simplified networking, and
tools to help Microsoft deliver on our promise of the connected home."

Comments made 2 years ago are no longer relevant the Longhorn project has
changed radically since then and is now much more further advanced - so
we can be more definite on our plans and shipping time frames.


Again 2 years ago - plans change in the extremely early stages of
development. We are now much closer to the final feature set and code is
well under way - Beta 1 is getting very close then onwards to Beta 2 a
number of Release Candidates then RTM.
It may not look like it from the outside but working where an I do and
with the information I see, 2006 is a good bet for RTM


A year behind what ? Yes plans change again citing comment made 2 years
ago are no longer relevant - the product was still on the drawing board -
where we are now the picture is clear and the path laid out - being able
to run the code every day on your PC is a world away from talk, plans and
whiteboards full of ideas.
This is the nature of massive software development projects - lots of
shift and change at the front end then as you progress you can be firmer
and firmer on dates, features etc.

I really don't need to prove anything as my only evidence is internal
Microsoft confidential project plans, status reports, updates and builds.

--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

 

[Armand Hammer]

I never realized MSFT was so desperate for staff they are scraping the
bottom of the barrel and hiring idiots like you. You are so dense I wonder
how you can function in day to day life, but maybe you can't I have no way
of knowing it. Whether or not Longhorn ships as MS currently plans or not
it doesn't matter at this point because regardless of that you have shown
you know very little. The best part is, this little excahnge will live for
ever on the world wide web.