Windows Vista N will be even BETTER!

G

Gospel

The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly useless
out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck, they
are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain .. and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless Linux
distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.

Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on the
Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a "monopolist" on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near lockout at
that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden) agenda
here?

["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul Thurrott]
http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
 
M

Mike Williams

Gospel said:
Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on the
Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a "monopolist" on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near lockout at
that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden) agenda
here?
Click to expand...

EU is also hitting Apple where it hurts. There's been quite a bit of
news about it in recent weeks, not to mention the obligatory /. discussion.
 
Z

Zack Whittaker

OI!!

Just because I live in the EU doesn't mean I'm going to use such n00bish
software as an "N" Edition!! :blush:P
Ultimate all the way baby *does the Victory dance*

--
Zack Whittaker
Windows Server 2003 R2 Mentor
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared
that up!


--- Original message follows ---
Andre Da Costa said:
I think this Edition of Windows Vista is meant for people only like Zack.
:p
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Gospel said:
The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly
useless
out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck,
they
are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain ..
and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless Linux
distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.

Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on the
Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a "monopolist"
on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near lockout
at
that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden)
agenda
here?

["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul
Thurrott]
http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
G

Gospel

Bundling a browser is not a monopolistic practice. Heck, for the most part,
it becomes difficult to even get a competing browser unless there's one
already on board. The commisions import seems too punitive to me and its
intent seems ruinous rather than corrective. I just do not see the logic
unless it is not based on precluding monopolistic practice but some other
agenda - just my opinion, of course.
 
A

Andre Da Costa [Extended64]

I am moving more to Starter Edition.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Zack Whittaker said:
OI!!

Just because I live in the EU doesn't mean I'm going to use such n00bish
software as an "N" Edition!! :blush:P
Ultimate all the way baby *does the Victory dance*

--
Zack Whittaker
Windows Server 2003 R2 Mentor
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we
cleared that up!


--- Original message follows ---
Andre Da Costa said:
I think this Edition of Windows Vista is meant for people only like Zack.
:p
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Gospel said:
The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly
useless
out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck,
they
are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain ..
and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless
Linux
distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.

Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on the
Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a "monopolist"
on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near lockout
at
that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden)
agenda
here?

["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul
Thurrott]
http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
J

Jason

LOL Andre. Isn't it the most perfect edition :)

Andre Da Costa said:
I am moving more to Starter Edition.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Zack Whittaker said:
OI!!

Just because I live in the EU doesn't mean I'm going to use such n00bish
software as an "N" Edition!! :blush:P
Ultimate all the way baby *does the Victory dance*

--
Zack Whittaker
Windows Server 2003 R2 Mentor
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we
cleared that up!


--- Original message follows ---
Andre Da Costa said:
I think this Edition of Windows Vista is meant for people only like Zack.
:p
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly
useless
out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck,
they
are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain
.. and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless
Linux
distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.

Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on the
Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a
"monopolist" on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near lockout
at
that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden)
agenda
here?

["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul
Thurrott]
http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
J

John Jay Smith

I dont see anyone complaining about Linux that has thousands of packages in
eatch distro....

If Linux could do it, MS should be able to do it.
 
J

John Jay Smith

On a second thought....

Perhaps this edition will find many supporters though!
As I see it there will be lots of American geeks trying to get their hands
on the EU edition!

People have been trying to strip Windows of some of these things for a long
time...

They will install firefox, vlc, foxit and the computer will be lighter.

Perhaps this will be hit for older systems....
 
P

Pierre Szwarc

The EU isn't fighting the bundling of a browser, media reader, etc... with
the OS. It's fighting the fact that these items cannot be uninstalled, which
*is* a monopolistic practice. And FYI, I'm not about to purchase the "N"
version any time soon, even though I am an EU citizen <g> As a matter of
fact, I've yet to see an "N" box on the shelves...
--
Pierre Szwarc
Paris, France
PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
------------------------------------------------
Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
------------------------------------------------

"Gospel" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de (e-mail address removed)...
| The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
| commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly useless
| out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck, they
| are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
| competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain ..
and
| the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless Linux
| distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.
|
| Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
| monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on the
| Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a "monopolist"
on
| the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near lockout at
| that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden)
agenda
| here?
|
| ["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul Thurrott]
| http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
|
|
 
M

Mike Williams

Pierre said:
The EU isn't fighting the bundling of a browser, media reader, etc... with
the OS. It's fighting the fact that these items cannot be uninstalled, which
*is* a monopolistic practice. And FYI, I'm not about to purchase the "N"
version any time soon, even though I am an EU citizen <g> As a matter of
fact, I've yet to see an "N" box on the shelves...
Click to expand...

All the visible pieces of UI can be disabled, allowing the plumbing
pieces that Windows uses to run other programs in place. It's nice to
know that I can log onto a computer and enable such important pieces
when necessary.

I think sales of 'N' are almost zero. EU law requires that all the OEMs
keep it in their parts catalogs (in all the localized versions), so it's
mainly creating more work for them at zero gain.
 
J

Jens Mander

The analogy with linux is not a good one.. In Linux you usually have the
choice WHICH MediaPlayer (eg vlc, mplayer, amarok), WebBrowser
(mozilla-based like Firefox; Opera; Konqueror) etc. you want to install.
With Windows without N it is ONLY InternetExploder. And with N it's nothing.
But you still can download the browser of your choice using the
commandline-ftp :)
IMHO the N-thingie would be the OS of my choice, as I don't use IE, OE and
WMP at all, and have my Firefox, MediaPlayerClassic and Winamp on a CD
(which I always carry with me..)
 
Z

Zack Whittaker

Look, the figures from Windows XP "N" sales are so shocking... but it's no
real water of their back because they're so rich and could easily do it.

But I see what you mean :blush:)

--
Zack Whittaker
Windows Server 2003 R2 Mentor
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared
that up!


--- Original message follows ---
 
M

Mike Williams

Zack said:
Look, the figures from Windows XP "N" sales are so shocking... but it's no
real water of their back because they're so rich and could easily do it.
Click to expand...

Yes, but it means that hundreds of people are taken away from more
productive work to make "N" available. So bugs don't get fixed, new
features don't get written...
 
G

Gospel

The choice is there with Windows too. OEMs can install alternatives and
individuals can download alternatives. You can even make some of the Windows
apps "disappear" although because other programs sometimes depend on common
DLLs so some plumbing remains. If someone wants to pretty much use
exclusively iTunes for music, they can already do so on Windows.

If a distro of linux only included one browser and one media player, should
the creators be ordered to remove said browser and player? No. Well the
Windows distro comes with a browser and player - so what?
 
G

Gospel

John said:
On a second thought....

Perhaps this edition will find many supporters though!
As I see it there will be lots of American geeks trying to get their
hands on the EU edition!

People have been trying to strip Windows of some of these things for
a long time...

They will install firefox, vlc, foxit and the computer will be
lighter.

Perhaps this will be hit for older systems....

--
Kenny - www.ComputerBoom.com
Take a look at my site!
A World Full of Wonders...
If you can imagine it, it is possible.

--
Gospel said:
The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The
EU commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a
nearly useless out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player,
no metro .. heck, they are even considering banning IE7! How one is
supposed to download a competing browser without a browser the EU
commision does not explain .. and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless
Linux distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.

Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on
the Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a
"monopolist" on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near
lockout at that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there
another (hidden) agenda
here?

["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul
Thurrott]
http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yes, but an N version would be a "monopolistic" version too, as removing
stuff will be competition for companies like LitePC! No matter what
Microsoft does the Euro commision will complain.
 
Z

Zack Whittaker

Nah of course not! :blush:) I'm not 100% sure of it, but they do have different
groups under the Vista "umbrella". They have the Network Stack group, the UI
group, the designers and all that - they'll also have the localisation group
of which will probably cover Windows Vista "N". It's really not all that
difficult just to remove Windows Media Player - just a few registry keys and
to change file permissions and stuff.

To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they got 1 person to do
it actually - maximum of 10 :blush:)

--
Zack Whittaker
Windows Server 2003 R2 Mentor
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared
that up!


--- Original message follows ---
 
A

Andre Da Costa [Extended64]

It sure is, my possibilities are limit-ful. ;)
--
--
Andre
Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta

Jason said:
LOL Andre. Isn't it the most perfect edition :)

Andre Da Costa said:
I am moving more to Starter Edition.
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

Zack Whittaker said:
OI!!

Just because I live in the EU doesn't mean I'm going to use such n00bish
software as an "N" Edition!! :blush:P
Ultimate all the way baby *does the Victory dance*

--
Zack Whittaker
Windows Server 2003 R2 Mentor
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we
cleared that up!


--- Original message follows ---
I think this Edition of Windows Vista is meant for people only like
Zack. :p
--
Andre
Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
FAQ for MS AntiSpy
http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly
useless
out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck,
they
are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain
.. and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless
Linux
distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.

Does the EU commision have another agenda than simply precluding
monopolistic practice? Why wouldn't they bar Apple from bundling on
the
Apple computer platform - Apple is just as - or more so - a
"monopolist" on
the Apple platform than any other software vendor - it's a near
lockout at
that. Why isn't that being addressed .. or is there another (hidden)
agenda
here?

["EU Warns Microsoft About Windows Vista" March 29, 2006 by Paul
Thurrott]
http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=49836&cpage=1
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
M

Mark Gillespie

The N version of Windows is about to get even BETTER in Vista. The EU
commision is planning to strip it to the bone and make it a nearly
useless
out-of-the-box experience! No search, media player, no metro .. heck,
they
are even considering banning IE7! How one is supposed to download a
competing browser without a browser the EU commision does not explain ..
and
the EU commision makes no mention that both Apple OSX and countless Linux
distributions do bundle all these thing and much more.
Click to expand...

The EU Comission have simply lost the plot. They THINK they are
protecting us, but they are just Causing MS problems, At the end of the
day, Europeans are going to pay for Vista N (XP N).

1/ Because it costs MS more to do this work, so it gets passed on to users
as part of the selling price
2/ We pay the EU to push these changes through on our behalf, and this is
part of our taxes.

Europe must be such a great place, if the only problems to sort, are
bundled applications with Microsoft software. Personally, I think my
taces should be spend persuing bigger issues...
 
M

Mark Gillespie

The EU isn't fighting the bundling of a browser, media reader, etc...
with
the OS. It's fighting the fact that these items cannot be uninstalled,
which
*is* a monopolistic practice. And FYI, I'm not about to purchase the "N"
version any time soon, even though I am an EU citizen <g> As a matter of
fact, I've yet to see an "N" box on the shelves...
Click to expand...


Then perhaps someone should show the EU Comission "Program Access and
Defaults", which allows removal of IE, Mediaplayer and all the other
bundled stuff....

Seems like this is just the French pushing this through again, with their
anti-corporate stance (like the Apple iTunes thing recently).
 
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