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Frank Kabel said:
Very interesting approach but maybe you don't understand what exchange
rates are? Rates are defined BETWEEN two countries. So you need at least
both countries to determine the respective exchange rate basis (and I
hope you don't want to base all rates on one currency, e.g. US$ and
calculate all other rates between different countries based on this as
this won't work in real live!)
....

No kidding. One of the things to look for are asymmetries in exchange rates,
in order to exploit currency arbitrage opportunities. And for those of use
who aren't trading currency on chunks of tens of millions of US$, the
conversion rates usually include the fees charged for the exchange.

But since the OP lives in an ideal world, I suppose the currency markets are
also perfect, so only need one conversion rate each to the base currency
(maybe the euro).
And this is something you can't directly translate to a database. You'd
probably create a table such as
From_Country
To_Country
Rate
....

Exactly. It's an example of unavoidable inefficiency in normalized table
storage. There'd be as many rates in the normalized table as in the
spreadsheet-like N-by-N table with row and column headers, but From_Country
and To_Country would require unavoidably redundant storage.
 
Gary Smith said:
If you stop feeding the troll, it will eventually starve to death.

True, but this has degenerated into troll vs troll, so no-win. At least this
is still tenuously on-topic.
 
anybody that ever types anything into excel is an EXCEL DEVELOPER.

And anyone who ever wrote a batch file is a system administrator?

Is everyone who uses Word an author?
Don't be scared to learn how to actually use the tool.. it's amazing what
you can do; once you drop the fear of VBA Macros. People are SCARED to be
seen as a 'developer'

And most of what *should* be done with Excel can be done without any VBA
code. VBA makes it easier to extend Excel spreadsheets, but most of the
resulting applications probably should be rewritten in other languages to
make maintenance easier in the long run.

It's not so much that most Excel users are scared to be seen as developers.
It's more accurate to say that Excel use (or any other software use) isn't
the core of their job. Software are just some of the tools they use. They
don't want to be considered developers because they don't want to find
themselves limited in what they can do to just application development.
Excel and Access have blurred the lines between developers and
beancounters-- but most of the beancounters i know need to wake up
and start learning a 21st century toolset.

If you assume such tools are exclusively developers' tools, then it's
consistent (though somewhat circular) to believe anyone who uses them would
be a developer. Me, I'd give more weight to *how* the tools were used. I use
hammers, drills, screw drivers, saws and even planes, but I guarantee you
I'm no carpenter. It's quite possible to use these tools as a developer, as
a user, or as a putz.
No developers on my side have ever been too busy. You management-type have
just been going the wrong angle-- trying to make everything web-based.
....

Like web-based spreadsheets!

It's nice you have underemployed developers with lots of time. I've never
worked for a company where developers weren't intentionally backlogged. Even
so, what may be true now has little bearing on what was true back in the
mid-1980s when spreadsheets emerged as the software development platform of
choice for anyone & everyone outside IT/MIS/DP departments. You're ignorant
of early PC history if you don't know that one of the reasons they became so
ubiquitous is so that non-IT departments could automate (in a very loose
sense) certain tasks (but *not* all tasks, and often not the more important
tasks, just the recurring mundane ones) that the developers weren't willing
to touch.

The reason few people want to be classed as developers is because in most
companies that sell non-computer/non-software goods and services, developers
had reputations as arrogant and unresponsive, and they seldom rose from
their department into senior management. Obviously you're an exception - no
arrogance or ignorance in any of your opinions so far, gosh no.

You can't query a spreadsheet. It's just a dead end street..

?

Excel is an ODBC data source, so in a picky, techincal sense you're dead
wrong.

*IF* the spreadsheet were designed with reuse in mind, key calculated values
would have descriptive defined names, and those could be dereferenced,
though not queried. This would be not much different than polling the
message stack, accessing the system date/time or dereferencing environment
variables. In all systems, there are a lot of data/information sources that
aren't queried (unless you expand the defintion of 'query' so broadly that
my objection in the previous paragraph ceases to be picky).
Mdx, by definition-- can do anything that a spreadsheet can.

Again, genius, how do you use it to create an amortization table?

There's a world of difference between 'can do' and 'can do better'.
The thing is that you dont understnad-- is that you wouldn't ever need to
display this single field-- you can join a few tables in order to get the
results that you really want.

No, really?!

You're not understanding that one of the big differences between
spreadsheets and most other application development platforms is that in
spreadsheets most of the data structures and temporary variables are
available for display. There are many time when this is desirable. When it's
not, they can be hidden (perhaps not so that determined uses could never see
them, but hidden enough for most users).
Rather than exporting your data to excel from this database; and looking up
each value for an exchange rate-- and then displaying it in a 3rd field--
you can buidl a QUERY that would translate between those 2 and then you
would be much better off tomorrow.

You'd need to create a parametrized query to make this as simple as it would
be in spreadsheets. I see you fell into a trap I laid in

HLOOKUP("USA",CurrConvTbl,MATCH("UK",INDEX(CurrConvTbl,0,1),0),0)

Make "USA" FromCountry and "UK" ToCountry, and you have parametrized
formulas. Define FromCountry and ToCountry as single cell ranges, and use
data validation lists in both so that users would only pick from countries
in the table.

For equivalent DBMS functionality you'd need to design a form (I don't know
the proper terminology for items in such forms) that included two user
entries from lists that would be initialized from one query against the
table. Then once the two entries were set, query the table to return the
conversion rate. Seems to me there'd be 3 'fields' here too - the two
entries and the result. While the table wouldn't be part of the display,
it's unlikely it'd take up too much less storage than the N-by-N grid plus
row and column headings in the spreadsheet.
 
[...]
No kidding. One of the things to look for are asymmetries in exchange
rates, in order to exploit currency arbitrage opportunities. And for
those of use who aren't trading currency on chunks of tens of
millions of US$, the conversion rates usually include the fees
charged for the exchange.
:-)
though it's getting more and more difficult to explore these opportunities
as all professional traders/brokers/financial institutions use electronic
eyes and similar tools. No real fun anymore but just computers who
automatically match. Same is true for Bond trading (not on the derivatives
side though)


[...]
...

Exactly. It's an example of unavoidable inefficiency in normalized
table storage. There'd be as many rates in the normalized table as in
the spreadsheet-like N-by-N table with row and column headers, but
From_Country and To_Country would require unavoidably redundant
storage.

As you stated before. The OP probably has no experience in real life
applications for financial service companies. Especially for trade
transaction data often flat file data structures are used

Regards
Frank
 
you guys are crazy, i can create that in a database.. just as easily as you
can create it in a spreadsheet.

Are you retarded?

Do you really think that I can't store that information in a table?

Also-- if you're talking about the whole pivot ability.. There is a wizard
to pivot this and in SQL2005; pivot and unpivot is a reality.

Are you really too retarded to realize that i can put this in a table just
as easily as you can put it in a spreadsheet?

And you're seriously bitching about how this is 'too complex'

hahahahahhaa

grow up and learn SQL kid
 
WHAT REDUNDANT STORAGE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

FOR STARTERS, YOU HAVE EMPTY ROWS

YOU ARE USING STORAGE INEFFICENTLY

GROW UP AND LEARN SQL KID

EXCEL IS _SO_ 1995
 
I know for a FACT that these 'professional applications' don't use Excel.

I am positive that they are database driven.

GROW UP AND LEARN SQL KID


Frank Kabel said:
[...]
No kidding. One of the things to look for are asymmetries in exchange
rates, in order to exploit currency arbitrage opportunities. And for
those of use who aren't trading currency on chunks of tens of
millions of US$, the conversion rates usually include the fees
charged for the exchange.
:-)
though it's getting more and more difficult to explore these opportunities
as all professional traders/brokers/financial institutions use electronic
eyes and similar tools. No real fun anymore but just computers who
automatically match. Same is true for Bond trading (not on the derivatives
side though)


[...]
...

Exactly. It's an example of unavoidable inefficiency in normalized
table storage. There'd be as many rates in the normalized table as in
the spreadsheet-like N-by-N table with row and column headers, but
From_Country and To_Country would require unavoidably redundant
storage.

As you stated before. The OP probably has no experience in real life
applications for financial service companies. Especially for trade
transaction data often flat file data structures are used

Regards
Frank
 
_MOST_ beancounters have this fear of being seen as a developer.

My brother did-- it stunted his growth.
 
you all grow up and stop using Excel for reporting on database information.

Access-- especially Access Data Projects-- there are the BIZ-OMB and anyone
still usign Excel to print the same report every week should be fired..

That is _SO_ 1995.

I mean-- running thru and changing numbers-- checking formulas..

I mean-- do you guys really think that you're not replaceable?

GROW UP AND STOP USING EXCEL KIDS
 
Hi
I know at least the Eurex and Xetra trading systems and they're NOT database
driven but flat file oriented :-)

--
Regards
Frank Kabel
Frankfurt, Germany
I know for a FACT that these 'professional applications' don't use Excel.

I am positive that they are database driven.

GROW UP AND LEARN SQL KID


Frank Kabel said:
 
should be rewritten in other languages, like what Cobol?

VBA is the bomb, but Excel is the wrong tier to place your business logic.

And I haven't been underemployed; i've met a lot of grouchy XLSheads that
can't ever get anything done.. because they are 'scared to be seen as a
developer'

using Access doesn't make one a developer.

using Excel doesn't mean you're a non-developer

I can automate those XLS you create week in and week out.

You can do.

Drop the crutch; and grow into the 1980s.. databases are more efficient LONG
TERM because multiple people can use the same data.

Multiple people can use the same logic.

You can reuse in one tier business logic.. You can still have different
copies of tables for each user.. you can still do anything you dreamed of

I just beg you guys; give up on this whole Excel thing; it is a dead-end
street.

And I am tired of dealing with 'spreadsheet hell'

and i wish that you guys would grow up and use Access.



RE:
Excel is an ODBC data source, so in a picky, techincal sense you're dead
wrong.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to use Excel data in all practicality.

Link to a XLS via a Sql Server linked table-- even Microsoft's examples are
broken and incomplete.

Excel is supposed to be all peachy-- but it is impossible to get the data
out of an XLS and since it is a dead-end street it should be avoided like
the plague.

I can amortize, i can do this exchange rate kids-play stuff in a database
any time you want buddy. Send me some sample data; and ill have an MDB for
you in about a minute.
 
This Aaron Kempf idiot is now an official member of my killfile.
I would suggest that the mods block this uneducated, snot nosed idiot from
the board. His preaching's border on hysteria, which wouldn't be so bad if
any of what he said was right.

Aaron, don't bother your stupid little self to respond as I won't see it
anyway.

If the mods dont ban you, I can only hope you suffer a stroke that makes it
impossible for you to use a keyboard.

In the years that I have browsed these groups, I have seen some pretty sorry
excuses for a carbon based life form, but you are by far the most ignorant,
self righteous and immature I have ever seen.

Grow up, realize that others may and most likely do have opinions counter to
your own, and then go away.

Bobby
 
I know for a FACT that these 'professional applications' don't use Excel.

I am positive that they are database driven.

GROW UP AND LEARN SQL KID
....

Almost certainly they don't use Excel. Also almost certain any & all
realtime systems aren't database driven but eat data straight from
logically serial feeds and apply filters designed to recognize
significant changes as quickly as possible. If you're interested, look
up Kalman filters and stochastic modeling and control. Nothing at all
database-like or database-driven about them, aside perhaps from storage
and archival after the real work has been done.
 
WHAT REDUNDANT STORAGE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

FOR STARTERS, YOU HAVE EMPTY ROWS

Obviously you're ignorant of sparse matrix storage of spreadsheet
contents, which has been around since the late 1980s.
YOU ARE USING STORAGE INEFFICENTLY

Any relational table that needs to store data structures that are
intrinsically multiple dimensional hypercubes is necessarily redundant.
Why? Because each datum requires storage of its indices along with its
value. In contrast, index values need be stored only once for such data
in hypercube format/layout. Even if you use clever indexing schemes,
you still have redundancy in normalized tables.

So you're unaware that normalized tables aren't necessarily more
storage efficient than other data structures. They're only assured to
be more storage efficient than flat files.
GROW UP AND LEARN SQL KID

I use SQL when it make sense, spreadsheets when they make sense,
scripting languages when they make sense, R when it makes sense, C when
it makese sense. Time for you to grow up & realize no one tool is best
all the time, and also to realize that there are many instances in
which spreadsheets are best - both in terms of speed and accuracy of
development.
EXCEL IS _SO_ 1995

Ans RDBMSs are soooo 1970s. Good technologies last, it just takes
newbies like you a long time to realize their respective worth.
 
should be rewritten in other languages, like what Cobol?

Unsure what you're referring to, but anything that relies mostly on
text pattern recognition would best be implemented in some language
that provides decent *built-in* tools, such as the regular expressions
in Perl or VBScript, but not VBA.
VBA is the bomb, but Excel is the wrong tier to place your business
logic.
....

I love literal transliteration into English. A bomb and bombing have
rather different connotations to native English speakers.
using Access doesn't make one a developer.

using Excel doesn't mean you're a non-developer

You're the one who claimed, "anybody that ever types anything into
excel is an EXCEL DEVELOPER." So you'd like to rescind that egregious
generalization? At least there seems to be some hope you can learn from
your mistakes.
I can automate those XLS you create week in and week out.
....

No kidding. So can I (and I have). I've even automated generating some
from Perl scripts, in which case the XLS files are simply convenient
transmission media. You're making the incorrect conclusion that all XLS
files are created on their own, manually, from scratch. Keep on
believing that if you want to.
Drop the crutch; and grow into the 1980s.. databases are more efficient LONG
TERM because multiple people can use the same data.
....

If you mean reports, then I don't disagree that databases could be more
efficient in some instances. However, there's a question of how many
calculations (not the simple database sort of accumulations - SUM,
COUNT, AVERAGE, etc. - but rather more complex ones like the a_th
percentile of a statistical distribution with parameters based on
sample data) are needed to produce the results of interest.

Pure RDBMS philosophy disdains storing anything that could be
reproduced with queries at a later date. This means that views could be
regenerated every time they're needed, and that can be inefficient.
Practical approaches would store key calculated values, but that raises
another problem: audit trail for those results. One advantage of
spreassheets is that calculations are explicit and reproducible.
They're much less so in other systems, including DBMSs.

As for LONG TERM, the late great claim for 4th generation languages was
that they'd be the HOLY GRAIL of report development, putting SQL code
into it's proper (secondary) place, and eliminating the need for other
report development tools. That was back in the early 1990s. From your
rants so far, it seems SQL is still very much alive an in the forefront
of your development work. And whatcha know, so are spreadsheets.
I just beg you guys; give up on this whole Excel thing; it is a dead-end
street.

Just because you say it doesn't make it so. Just because you believe it
doesn't mean anyone else does.

I'll repeat: spreadsheets are overused. However, the main reason
they're overused is that most people who use them *correctly* believe
they're the easiest and usually quickest tool they have to use to
complete the tasks they're given. Note that easiest doesn't mean best,
but most people will settle for easy & quick when given the choice.
And I am tired of dealing with 'spreadsheet hell'

Tough. This can be dealt with if you're willing to redesign
spreadsheets *and* show others better approaches. A few of my own more
significant achievements over the past few years has involved writing
scripts and script templates to pull data sitting in Lotus .123 files
into .XLS files and even databases. Your claims that data in
spreadsheets can't be resused is just a strident implied admission of
your own ignorance in this regard. It may not be easy (at first), but
it's not impossible.
and i wish that you guys would grow up and use Access.

Because that'd make your life easier. I've changed my mind. Please hold
your breath until we do so.
 
hahahhaha

and electricity is so 1890s

it's like -- Databases are the best Long-term solution

If you're too lazy to use databases; keep on using Excel

I just wish that Microsoft realize that they're sending us all to hell by
mandating that people use XLS.. mainly becuase they refuse to fix bugs in
thier other programs.

If there is a bug in Excel; they'll fix it.

If there is a bug in Access-- they won't.

Not because of marketshare, not because of profitability or anything like
that.

The problem is that you damn beancounters are LAME

and you guys need to wake up and start doing thigns more efficiently.

You beancounters make the same spreadsheet month after month.

I might take twice as long to make the same report in Access (or SQL
reporting services for example)

And after 2 months; i have saved time for my company-- because it is FREE
and EASY to schedule a report that gets printed using Access.

Printing a new monthly report in Excel means that the beancounters have to
spend an hour cutting and pasting data.

It's just funny grow up guys and learn databases.

-Aaron
 
RE:

If you mean reports, then I don't disagree that databases could be more
efficient in some instances. However, there's a question of how many
calculations (not the simple database sort of accumulations - SUM,
COUNT, AVERAGE, etc. - but rather more complex ones like the a_th
percentile of a statistical distribution with parameters based on
sample data) are needed to produce the results of interest.


This type of person should be locked up in jail for being egocentric.

SQL Server has the ability to make user defined functions.

Anythign that you can do in Excel; i can do in either MDX or SQL. And I'll
do it once; and make a couple of DTS packages; and I am done-- I don't need
to come back and type stuff into a spreadsheet in order to make a new
report..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I tell you this-- if spreadsheets were all-powerful. you know those
supercomputers that they have?? They would be runnnig Excel.

If Excel was really the best solution-- people would have Clusters of
spreadsheets. Excel 2005 Cluster Edition...

HAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

give me a break

RE:

explicit and reproducible.
They're much less so in other systems, including DBMSs.

They're reproducible because you CUT AND PASTE THE FORMULAS INTO 1,000
DIFFERENT CELLS.

I CAN DO THE SAME THING ON THE DATABASE SIDE--

BUT I CHOOSE TO KEEP MY BUSINESS LOGIC IN ONE PLACE-- SO THAT IF I NEED TO
CHANGE A REPORT: I CHANGE IT IN ONE PLACE.

THEN MY WEBSITE AND MY REPORTS AND MY DATAWAREHOUSE_- THEY ALL GET UPDATED
DATA.

IT IS PHYSCIALLY AND PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET DATA OUT OF SPREADSHEETS.

I SHOUD KNOW. I HAVE WRITTEN DOZENS OF APPLICATIONS THAT CATALOG
SPREADSHEETS-- BECAUSE WINDOWS INDEXING SERVICE SUX-- I BUILD A DATABASE
WHERE I DO A FULLTEXT INDEX ON HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF SPREADSHEETS.

IF MICROSOFT WOUDL MAKE THIS BUILTIN TO EXCEL EXCEL-- THEN MAYBE I WOULD USE
IT.

AS IT IS; IT IS A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME THAT 80% OF YOU RECREATE THE SAME
REPORT BY HAND EVERY MONTH.

MDX IS GOING TO EAT YOU ALIVE, KIDS

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
 
hahahah

the real work-- you see.. database people do all the real work for a
company.

its like this.

The ROBOTS of the lore-- they are here and upon us. but there isn't anybody
that knows how to use them.

back after 9/11-- in the worst part of the dotcom burst.. there were
hundreds, if not thousands of spreadsheet geeks and webdevelopers that were
out of work.

Was there too many database people??

NO.

I am the only person out of my 20 friends that has been gainfully employed
these past 4 years.

because of the fact that companies understand the long-term value of
building database tools.

If you've seen brazil or 1984-- its like hundreds of poeple running around
typign the same spreadsheet.. typing the same thing weeek in and week out.

TPS Reports-- from Office Space. I mean--- isn't it comical to you guys
that people still work like it is 1984?

I dont make reports that get emailed or printed out. I build systems so that
people can have a nice lil flexible frontend to analyze millions of records.

it is all lighting fast.

and i empower people like you to make worse and worse spreadsheet solutions.

I just think that it is hilarious that you guys defend this platform.

If I were you; I'd just give up and spend a month using Access. Learn how
to write queries. Use your lil precious fingers to set MACROS in access --
don't worry they're multiple choice LoL

Learn more about it-- i BEG of all of you.. not for me; but for you. Make
yourself more efficient and INSPECT access in order to know what it can do.

Give it a shot.

Start writign queries.

And stay tuned... I will be back; and I'm making a website called
sqlrising.com right now.. so you guys can continue to read up on cool
projects..

just so that people can SEE what databases can do.

most people have no comprehension.

All I know is that Amazon is a DATABASE with a couple of webpages.. and that
is one of the most powerful things in the world.

-Aaron
 
and electricity is so 1890s

Yup, and it's still necessary too. Amazing how core technologies just keep
going and going and going . . .
it's like -- Databases are the best Long-term solution

For generating most reports, already agreed *IF* the persons generating
those reports are comfortable using databases. It's up to their employers to
decide whether it makes greater economic sense to convert to databases and
possibly assign the responsibilities to other people or to leave things as
they are. It's most definitely not up to you.
If you're too lazy to use databases; keep on using Excel

Who says I don't use databases? I've argued that one should use the best
tool for the task, but that means ease and speed of development on one hand
and complexity of calculations are proper design considerations, and that
most definitely means databases aren't always best.
I just wish that Microsoft realize that they're sending us all to hell by
mandating that people use XLS.. mainly becuase they refuse to fix bugs in
thier other programs.

Where do they mandate any such thing? By failing to bundle Access in every
version of Office?
If there is a bug in Excel; they'll fix it.
....

Who says? Some bugs have been around so long they've become features. For
example, 29-Feb-1900, GAMMALN(1) and GAMMALN(2) returning negatives, damn
near all the discrete statistical distribution functions with nontrivial
parameters returning #NUM!, QUOTIENT(1,-2) returning -0, etc.

I guess you've never come across any of these. Perhaps you should consider
that the spreadsheets you've seen comprise a very limited sample of
spreadsheet applications.
The problem is that you damn beancounters are LAME

Who says I'm a bean counter? Who says you're not one?
and you guys need to wake up and start doing thigns more efficiently.

Efficient in what sense? Unless you can point out how using spreadsheets
rather than databases ALL ELSE EQUAL puts any company at an economic
disadvantage, you've failed to make a case for economic efficiency.
You beancounters make the same spreadsheet month after month.
....

If these apocryphal spreadsheets truly are recreated from scratch every
month, then they're clearly inefficient.

If it's a matter of lots of figures being reentered into a reused template
every month, then it's a trade-off between the cost of automating such entry
vs paying the data entry person(s). That's a trade-off you don't seem
willing to allow others to make.

On the other hand, if these reports involve combining information from many
different sources, it may be more than simply expedient to use report
spreadsheets rather than embark on nontrivial and quite likely expensive
systems integration exercises. You're laboring under the misconception that
there are only benefits and no costs in spreadsheet to database conversion.
And after 2 months; i have saved time for my company-- because it is FREE
and EASY to schedule a report that gets printed using Access.

As I've pointed out before, spreadsheets can also be desinged for reuse. It
takes some discipline, but it's not all that difficult.
Printing a new monthly report in Excel means that the beancounters have to
spend an hour cutting and pasting data.

Where you work perhaps. Not everywhere. You're generalizing way too much.
It's just funny grow up guys and learn databases.

I think you'll find most regular respondents already do know how to use
databases and even use when doing so makes sense.

You still haven't written how you'd create an amortization table in Excel.
Could it be you realize it's much more difficult to do in databases, and are
remaining silent because you can't bear to undercut your argument? Or
perhaps you simply don't know what an amortization table is? If so, perhaps
that could be an indication that you may be clueless about what spreadsheets
do well (and better than databases)?
 
the real work-- you see.. database people do all the real work for a
company.
....

I'm sure the database admins do all the work at, say, Boeing and Airbus, and
the design and production engineers are all so much unnecessary overhead.

Or perhaps you meant implicitly to restrict your remarks to developers. So
all Perl, PHP, Java, even VB programming is all secondary to maintaining a
few dozen RDBMS stored procedures.

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land, don't you?
back after 9/11-- in the worst part of the dotcom burst.. there were
hundreds, if not thousands of spreadsheet geeks and webdevelopers that
were out of work.

Uh . . . the dot.com bust occurred in 2000, a year before 9/11. So your
knowledge of recent history is as deep and broad as your knowledge of
software.

In case no one else has told you this, ignorance really isn't bliss.

And if there were people employed as *developers* who only knew
spreadsheets, then who knows, you may be right (after all, even a stopped
clock is right twice a day). And I doubt there were many people working for
dot.coms who knew only spreadsheets, and if there were, those people would
have been the financial vanguard of the new economy, reaping what they had
sown. But it wouldn't have been due to the narrowness of their software
skill set, they would have been unemployed/unemployable because no one still
in business would have trusted their subject knowledge.

Spreadsheet use isn't the core of of the jobs done by people who use (and
even develop) most spreadsheets. Spreadsheets are just a tool. Databases
seem to appeal to fanatics.
Was there too many database people??

NO.

Yes, low level database developers are always in some demand.
I am the only person out of my 20 friends that has been gainfully employed
these past 4 years.

Goody for you. If you've only been working full time for 4 years, I've been
working longer than you've been alive. So what?
because of the fact that companies understand the long-term value of
building database tools.
....

So all these 20 friends of yours are poor benighted 'spreadsheet
developers'?

To repeat, low level database developers are always in some demand. There's
also steady demand for plumbers to fix clogged toilets, but that hardly
proves the transcendent worth of the plumbing profession.
If you've seen brazil or 1984-- its like hundreds of poeple running around
typign the same spreadsheet.. typing the same thing weeek in and week out.

Into databases, no doubt.
TPS Reports-- from Office Space. I mean--- isn't it comical to you guys
that people still work like it is 1984?

Yes, but the raison d'etre of TPS reports is *precisely* to make time
management itself inefficient! It's not the spreadsheet implementation
that's ridiculous, it's the concept itself. It'd be no different if you were
using a mouse to point-and-click hole punches in a virtual Hollerith card
(though such an interface would appeal to my own obscurantist streak).
I dont make reports that get emailed or printed out. I build systems so that
people can have a nice lil flexible frontend to analyze millions of
records.
....

Goody. What you do may be fundamentally different from what others have BEEN
TOLD TO DO.
I just think that it is hilarious that you guys defend this platform.
....

No funnier than your inability to recognize the limits of your understanding
of the strengths and weaknesses of various software tools.
Learn more about it-- i BEG of all of you.. not for me; but for you. Make
yourself more efficient and INSPECT access in order to know what it can do.

Go ahead - educate us! Show us how to create an amortization table in
Access. Astound me! Go on, try to do this, and tell us the steps involved.
And stay tuned... I will be back; and I'm making a website called
sqlrising.com right now.. so you guys can continue to read up on cool
projects..

I think I'll stick to reading the mySQL site instead, thanks.
just so that people can SEE what databases can do.

And your examples would be . . . ?
most people have no comprehension.

So true, so true!
All I know is that Amazon is a DATABASE with a couple of webpages.. and that
is one of the most powerful things in the world.

FTHOI, check out what Amazon runs on its servers at netcraft,

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.amazon.com
 
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