WHY

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wonderful point.

I moved onto SQL Server 4 or 5 years ago; I do OLAP and DW..

I love ADP SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much.
 
Ken what makes you say 'real database'

I'm really curious-- where do you guys get a bad taste in your mouth when
you talk about Access?

Access handles a gig of information just perfectly.. Same with SQL Server.

any poorly designed database is going to run like crap

Access isn't just a database-- I never specified that I was talking about
MDB; by the way.. I was actually talking about ADP; and that connects to a
real database-- and you can actually use grownup functions; in one place--
instead of having mountains and mountains of crazy links and calculations in
Excel.. you can have real business logic in a database.

And the tools that ship with Access 2002 and newer-- they let newbies write
SQL Server stored procs and views.

The tools that ship in Access Data Projects are the best tools in the
industry for writing sprocs.

Why don't more SQL developers use the most powerful tool in thier toolbox?

And if newbies can write sprocs and views-- why is Excel around AT ALL
ANYMORE?

-aaron
ADP Nationalist
 
I dont think that it's a stupid idea-- i think that any company that was
serious about being efficient would have a central db and NOTHING lives
outside that database.

i mean-- if joe wants to go and do a profit and loss WHAT-IF scenario-- why
is it that he'd do this in Excel?

It would be SOOOOO much easier in Access or SQL. Long-term he would have a
TOOL for doing profit and loss-- otherwise; he just has information stuck in
a format that can't ever be used by anyone else.

Thats what pisses me off the most about Excel.. is that it is a 1-way
street. People bring data in-- why isn't it tracked where the data came
from??

Its next to impossible to get ragged data out of Excel-- there is
**FORMATTING AND LABELS** MIXED IN WITH DATA!!! HASN'T ANYONE EVER NOTICED
THAT?

YOU GO TO IMPORT DATA FROM EXCEL INTO ACCESS.. AND THERE ARE ROWS THAT ARE
JUST CRAP-- LABEL THIS; PROFIT AND LOSS THIS; NET SALES-- the word 'net
sales' is NOT data; and anything brings that text into my database; and it's
war.

I've seen BRIGHT people at Microsoft copy and paste numbers from Query
Analyzer into Excel.. month in and month out.

What are they left with??? A bunch of Spreadsheets; and they can't make
trending reports.

ADP can do that; and a 3rd grader can use a macro-- multiple choice for
christ sakes-- you're bound to get it right if you just keep on clicking
away LoL

I just want to know where I find other like-minded people.. Because someday
when I am in charge.. I will have a company where _EVERYTHING_ is built
around _MODERN_MICROSOFT_DATABASES_ instead of an AS/400 or a bunch of
beancounters pushing numbers in an XLS.

It's about flexibility.. I would just so much rather use Access for
reporting-- because I leave my results in one centralized place.. instead of
always tabbing thru spreadsheets.. and never really having any confidence
when your numbers are wrong..

I mean-- when you have an XLS: and you have a wrong number-- you have to go
thru a billion different places in order to double-check what cell points to
which formula; and which column points to which named range.. I mean--
_such_ a waste of time

It's time to grow up, world... Start using a database; instead of typing the
same report month in and month out.
 
Your last sentence says it all. Many Excel users could make exactly the same
point about Excel.

We can give you a string of reasons why Access is a database that no serious
developer would touch, but you wouldn't agree as you love it. All these
products work in a specific environment, step out of that and you can be
creating difficulties.

I say this as someone who loves Excel, but knows the problems that are
caused by users (and some developers) over-/mis-using it, but that is the
people not Excel.

--

HTH

RP
(remove nothere from the email address if mailing direct)
 
You appear to have a very limited view of the range of calculations in a
business organization. As a PhD statistician I am daily frustrated that
my company does not have a comprehensive data warehouse. But even if it
did, I would still see a legitimate use for keeping Excel on company
computers.

Just because "to a man with a hammer, everything tends to look like a
nail" does not negate the utility of hammers. Yes, the man should be
provided with a wide variety of tools and trained to use the appropriate
tool for the appropriate job; but banning hammers from the jobsite
because of past abuses would be crazy.

Jerry
 
Venting is good. I'm sure you feel better now.
BTW. On EXCEL newsgroups we try to use meaningful subject lines.
 
Well then let us hound microsoft to make Access easier to use than
Filemaker..

I know you can go and start typing stuff in in access.. it's like one of
the
options when you start a new table

------
Access is up to version 11. I wouldn't hold my breath about MS making it
easier to use.

I open Word and start typing immediately. I open Excel and start typing
immediately. I open Access and I can't start typing yet.

And Excel does have validation.

Bill
 
use the right tools for the right occasion.

Excel is overused and Microsoft is going to fail because of it.


And WTF are you talkign about, no serious developer??

Where did you get that line-- are you an Oracle Salesman or something??

Is that what this is all about?

Take your attitude problem about Access and shove it.

We're coming for your jobs, Excelheads.. I can't wait to kick you all out on
the streets.

You've invested in the WRONG technology for a decade too long.

Time to grow up and start building tools; not typing the same spreadsheet
week in and week out.

I mean-- come on guys.. grow up and start using Access.

ADP = familiar tool for developing reports against SQL Server.. the only
database on the market.

Aaron
 
meaningful subject lines.. you guys have short-mans complex..

i mean-- you guys have no POINT in the spreadsheets you write.. so you guys
can have meaningful subject lines all you want
 
RE:

As a PhD statistician I am daily frustrated that
my company does not have a comprehensive data warehouse.
Click to expand...

Consider Access a desktop data warehouse.

Read this paper; it changed my life..
http://www.fmsinc.com/tpapers/genaccess/DBOD.asp

That is the problem here-- people think that they need complex databases;
million dollar databases.. Any Access developer can spend $5k and develop a
system that will automate the way you work.

It is like Jr-High difficult to develop an Access database.
 
Hi

RE:

As a PhD statistician I am daily frustrated that

Consider Access a desktop data warehouse.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't mean this serious. After beeing involved in several
projects consolidation scattered Access databases (and Excel spreadsheets)
all over the company I hope no one would follow this idea anymore.

For 'real' data volumes Access is the wrong tool (as Excel is). You may use
Excel and Access as reporting frontend (as you seem to do with Access / SQL
server).
But neither of these qualifies as a data warehouse systems.

Read this paper; it changed my life..
http://www.fmsinc.com/tpapers/genaccess/DBOD.asp

That is the problem here-- people think that they need complex
databases; million dollar databases.. Any Access developer can spend
$5k and develop a system that will automate the way you work.
Click to expand...

The same is true for Excel and other similar tools. Often one will choose a
combination of several Office tools (if you have to use them). But this is
not really innovation. Access has similar limitation as Excel has and
personally I'd prefer more centralised solutions as what would happen if the
Access developer for a decentralised solution leaves?

Frank
 
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot
2) is it really benefical to type the same spreadsheet every month??
Long-term-- is that how you increase in efficiency??

Access is about saving effort; and reusing business logic.. building queries
that you can reuse in multiple places.. instead of copying spreadsheets and
having a maintenance nightmare

I've seen this in every company i've ever been in-- and i've also seen a LOT
of Access in my day.. but I've easily seen 100 spreadsheets for every Access
database I've seen in the 20 companies i've consulted for. But I've seen a
LOT of Access in my day; I've seen ~~100 Access Applications in at least 3
companies i've been at.

i just dont understand it.. Access is a MUCH superior product; but there is
a lil marketing problem; and Microsoft can't win the database war without
confronting it.

Microsoft needs to

1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
That is what they need to do to get traction in the marketplace.

So get it done, Microsoft-- there is my Christmas list to Microsoft..
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office
1) make Access sexy again
2) make it easier to use
3) include it with every version of Office

people have the ability to have their own personal data warehouse.. That
is what Access is-- your own desktop data warehouse.

and still 50% of the workplace makes the same lame spreadsheet every month.
Copying and Pasting; and copying and pasting; i mean shit-- wasn't this
passe in 1995??

there are new Excel people being born every minute.. it's like DIDN'T WE
INVENT BIRTH CONTROL TO KEEP TABS ON YOU BEANCOUNTERS??

it just boggles my mind--

WHAT VALUE DO YOU GUYS SEE IN RECREATING THE SAME REPORT BY HAND EVERY
MONTH??

-aaron
ADP Nationalist
 
Don

I'm just trying to WARN you guys to watch out for your careers. Typign the
same spreadsheet month in and month out isn't the most efficient way to do
things anymore.

Access is VERY powerful; especially when you choose to use ADP.. Storing
everything in SQL Server; and buidling your own queries..

That is what efficiency is all about-- people writing their own reports;
writing their own sprocs and views..

Good luck guys

I just wanted to make sure that SOMEONE told you before you all get fired
for having a '90s skillset.

-Aaron
ADP Nationalist
 
I've been doing Data Warehousing for 4 years now; and i think that 'personal
data warehouse' is an excellent choice of words to describe Access.

i just dont think that Excel can possibly report from data warehouses--
other than OLAP; it sux for reporting from SQL Server.

If Microsoft wants to keep Excel around-- give it the real ability to query
a SQL Server.

make worksheets or named ranges bindable to a SQL query.. and make it that
it is easy to manage/change all of these defs at once.

As it is; it is hunt and peck.. Change a definition here; change pages;
etc--

Can't Microsoft make a dashboard for reporting out of SQL Server; with
wizards and wizards and wizards.. and highly customizeable options.

If they were a fair and open company; they would allow it to work against
any data source.. like Oracle/db2 or mySql.. (let alone postgres, etc)

But then they need to include the best drivers; and make it all work-- from
top to bottom-- to give Excel real reporting abilites to read data from SQL
Server.

Improve the ability to manage multiple spreadsheets-- make a wizrd that will
import hundreds of spreadsheets into a single SQL database.. make it
searchable; etc

as it is; it is too dangerous to do your reports in Excel; since they can't
be consumed by other programs.

Excel is just a one-way street.

Excel needs to be opened; and expanded exponentially---

make Excel a total frontend for SQL Server.. because as it is.. people cut
and paste data from databases into Excel WAYYYYY TOO MUCH

and this strategy is a poor choice for 'Excel Developers'

and it is a poor choice for companies.

It is short-sighter.. short-term.

I personally don't want to be stuck in a company 20 years from now where
they have 200,000 spreadsheets.

So start managing Excel, Microsoft.. Start making reccomendations-- start
acting like a grown up company; microsoft... And if people are going to use
Excel to manage database information; make it a full-fledged platform for
developing SQL Server stored procs and views.

Just like you did with Access .. just do it RIGHT this time.. commit to
fixing bugs; and testing.. training users

Come on microsoft-- let's start leveraging these excel people into SOMETHING
otherwise i just feel guilty putting them out of a job.

Aaron
 
Good luck guys
I just wanted to make sure that SOMEONE told you before you all get fired
for having a '90s skillset.
Click to expand...

Good luck to you too. Have a nice skillset.
And please stop this.

Best wishes Harald
 
Come on microsoft-- let's start leveraging these excel people into SOMETHING
otherwise i just feel guilty putting them out of a job.
Click to expand...

I shouldn't worry about feeling too guilty if I were you :-)
 
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot <--watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill
 
Bill said:
1) you can start typing in access, you idiot <--watch it, Aaron!

No I cannot. The opening window in Word lets me start typing
immediately. The opening window in Excel lets me start typing in cell A1
immediately. The opening screen in Access 2003 is blank, except for a
task pane, which offers five choices under new file. If I select blank
database I get a file new database window and must give the database a
name, then click create. Then I get Access' DB window, where I can click
create table by entering data. I do not consider these steps to
represent "start typing in Access."

I'm not saying this is a difficult operation, but it is certainly more
complicated than starting Word or Excel.

I will agree with your main premise that Excel is not a major database
application, but Excel does have its merits as a spreadsheet.


Bill
Click to expand...

Exactly Bill, I want Aaron to tell me an easy way to create a financial
model in Access and then start doing some sensitivity analysis.
 
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