Why postscript ?

T

Talal Itani

Hello,

I am considering buying the Epson Stylus 3800 inkjet printer. This printer
can be bought with Postscript support. What is the advantage of postscript?

Thanks,
T.I.
 
R

rjn

Talal Itani said:
I am considering buying the Epson Stylus 3800 inkjet printer.
This printer can be bought with Postscript support.

Appears to be host RIP, and not resident firmware Ps support,
which means you can only send Ps to the printer via that host
software on one of the two supported platforms (Mac and XP).
What, exactly, the host RIP sends to the printer is not clear.
What is the advantage of postscript?

When it's resident Ps, it:

* allows use of the printer on "unsupported" hosts,
like Linux, Unix and future versions of the "supported"
hosts after the printer maker tires of driver upkeep

* allows proofing of jobs sent to printer shops as Ps files

* provides a second PDL (page description language), so
if a job won't print with one PDL, it might with the other.

With host RIP, these benefit usually do not apply,
or not for long.
 
E

Elmo P. Shagnasty

rjn said:
Appears to be host RIP, and not resident firmware Ps support,
which means you can only send Ps to the printer via that host
software on one of the two supported platforms (Mac and XP).
What, exactly, the host RIP sends to the printer is not clear.


When it's resident Ps, it:

* allows use of the printer on "unsupported" hosts,
like Linux, Unix and future versions of the "supported"
hosts after the printer maker tires of driver upkeep

* allows proofing of jobs sent to printer shops as Ps files

* provides a second PDL (page description language), so
if a job won't print with one PDL, it might with the other.

With host RIP, these benefit usually do not apply,
or not for long.

Wow. Such misinformation.
 
R

rjn

Wow. Such misinformation.

And you're not going to correct it,
or even answer the original question?

The Epson Stylus Pro 3800 Standard and Portrait
models include no Ps. The native PDL is ESC/P2.

The "Pro" model includes:
"PostScript Language Level 3 compatible RIP by ColorBurst®"
This I take to be a host RIP that only runs on the
supported operating systems, Mac and Win2k/XP.
Curious that there's no mention of Vista.
I wouldn't make assumptions about that one way or the other.

I would guess that what's sent to the printer is ESC/P2,
or some raster subset of it, even if the Ps path is used.
This is a Ps printer only so long as RIPs are available
for your OS platform.

I personally only buy dual-PDL printers when the Ps
is firmware-resident in the printer, and I have found it
to be useful to have that alternative. This is just
speaking as an ordinary home user.

I imagine that anyone contemplating a 3800 has
different considerations, but then the OP hasn't told
us what the usage is, other than hints of needing
true 2400 dpi capability (which the 3800 can't do,
it is 1440 max on one axis).
 
E

Elmo P. Shagnasty

rjn said:
And you're not going to correct it,
or even answer the original question?

It was a daunting task, one for which I was not prepared at the time.
 
E

Elmo P. Shagnasty

rjn said:
The "Pro" model includes:
"PostScript Language Level 3 compatible RIP by ColorBurst®"
This I take to be a host RIP that only runs on the
supported operating systems, Mac and Win2k/XP.
Curious that there's no mention of Vista.
I wouldn't make assumptions about that one way or the other.

I would guess that what's sent to the printer is ESC/P2,
or some raster subset of it, even if the Ps path is used.
This is a Ps printer only so long as RIPs are available
for your OS platform.
probably.



I personally only buy dual-PDL printers when the Ps
is firmware-resident in the printer,

Unless you are working within the Postscript world, in which case it's
damned handy to have a Postscript RIP--no matter where it resides and no
matter what chips do the processing.
 
R

rjn

Elmo P. Shagnasty said:
It was a daunting task, one for which I was not prepared at the time.

I'm always willing to be mistaken, if you get around to it.
Unless you are working within the Postscript world,
in which case it's damned handy to have a Postscript RIP
--no matter where it resides and no
matter what chips do the processing.

If you are working in the Ps world, you aren't apt to
be asking why you need Ps in Usenet :)

But it remains an interesting question for retail buyers
of printers. Why might you want Ps?

Here's another reason why an otherwise ordinary user,
doing color-critical DTP, might want Ps in the printer:

Color printers almost always print in CMYK (not RGB).
If your Windows app works in CMYK space, and
generates its own Ps, you can get that CMYK to the
printer without Mr.Bill trashing it back to RGB space
in the Windows GDI. If you have to use the native PDL
driver on Windows, pretty much forget color-matching.

But the major reason may remain that you get a
documented standardized PDL.

If my aging home laser printer had been host RIP Ps,
it would have ceased being a Ps printer years ago.
I have a couple of iPCL printers (hp C3804A, the original
PhotoSmart) in the basement. They are no longer
useful printers due to lack of driver support, even
though the ink carts might still be available.

A resident Ps printer will remain a useful printer, on any
OS, for as long as the hardware lasts and consumables
remain available.
 
E

Elmo P. Shagnasty

rjn said:
If you are working in the Ps world, you aren't apt to
be asking why you need Ps in Usenet :)

Many people don't realize they're working in a Postscript world. They
produce things in Illustrator and wonder why it comes out so crappy on
their home printer.
 
M

me

in the Windows GDI. If you have to use the native PDL
driver on Windows, pretty much forget color-matching.

BS. There are many folks using non-ps printers who use a full color managed
work flow to print to both locally and remotely.
 
R

rjn

BS. There are many folks using non-ps printers who use
a full color managed work flow to print to both locally and remotely.

The key phrase being "full color managed work flow".

In the context of the basenote here, I note that the Epson
3800 only offers bundled color management on the
"Pro" model, possibly only for the Ps print path.
Presumably, one could profile the Standard ESC/P2
model, but the buyer would need to scope that effort.

Also, Windows still has intractable problems in some
color scenarios. FrameMaker is one I'm familiar with.
<http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3c052e1c/2>
This hasn't changed since I struggled with it before Y2K.
Although in the context of this thread, having a Ps
printer wouldn't help (unless you use the hack of doing
all the color content as CMYK EPS objects).
 
T

Talal Itani

Wow. Such misinformation.

And you're not going to correct it,
or even answer the original question?

The Epson Stylus Pro 3800 Standard and Portrait
models include no Ps. The native PDL is ESC/P2.

The "Pro" model includes:
"PostScript Language Level 3 compatible RIP by ColorBurst®"
This I take to be a host RIP that only runs on the
supported operating systems, Mac and Win2k/XP.
Curious that there's no mention of Vista.
I wouldn't make assumptions about that one way or the other.

I would guess that what's sent to the printer is ESC/P2,
or some raster subset of it, even if the Ps path is used.
This is a Ps printer only so long as RIPs are available
for your OS platform.

I personally only buy dual-PDL printers when the Ps
is firmware-resident in the printer, and I have found it
to be useful to have that alternative. This is just
speaking as an ordinary home user.

I imagine that anyone contemplating a 3800 has
different considerations, but then the OP hasn't told
us what the usage is, other than hints of needing
true 2400 dpi capability (which the 3800 can't do,
it is 1440 max on one axis).

What is OP?
 
T

Talal Itani

Wow. Such misinformation.

And you're not going to correct it,
or even answer the original question?

The Epson Stylus Pro 3800 Standard and Portrait
models include no Ps. The native PDL is ESC/P2.

The "Pro" model includes:
"PostScript Language Level 3 compatible RIP by ColorBurst®"
This I take to be a host RIP that only runs on the
supported operating systems, Mac and Win2k/XP.
Curious that there's no mention of Vista.
I wouldn't make assumptions about that one way or the other.

I would guess that what's sent to the printer is ESC/P2,
or some raster subset of it, even if the Ps path is used.
This is a Ps printer only so long as RIPs are available
for your OS platform.

I personally only buy dual-PDL printers when the Ps
is firmware-resident in the printer, and I have found it
to be useful to have that alternative. This is just
speaking as an ordinary home user.

I imagine that anyone contemplating a 3800 has
different considerations, but then the OP hasn't told
us what the usage is, other than hints of needing
true 2400 dpi capability (which the 3800 can't do,
it is 1440 max on one axis).


I do need true 2400 dpi printer, on both axes. Who makes such a printer?
 
D

Don Phillipson

Who makes a 2400 dpi printer?

The fastest route is probably via the website of
your nearest large retailer. Select printers by price
(highest first) and scan the specifications. There
are Epson, HP, Brother brands etc., but your
practical concern is which are on sale nnear you.
 
R

rjn

Talal Itani said:
What is OP?

Original Poster, the person who started the thread.
That would be you.

If you want the most useful advice:
a. you've come to an unreliable place (Usenet), but even so
b. those who can help need to know what your intended
use is, platform and applications
c. trim quotes in responses

Caution: printers claiming 2400 dpi quality
cannot necessarily render a 2400 dpi bitmap
image dot-for-pixel. Even if they pass the data
unmodified, toner/ink issues at the single-pixel
level may render the output invisible, oversize or
having patterning artifacts over areas.

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the market to provide
suggestions on brands or models.
 
D

Don Phillipson

I am considering buying the Epson Stylus 3800 inkjet printer. This printer
can be bought with Postscript support. What is the advantage of
postscript?

Top quality desktop publishing (to the printer's best
specifications) when using Apple PCs or Adobe
software. PS appeared 20 years ago as the printer
language for Apples. Windows printers and Windows
software have by now become at least equal in
quality and perhaps cheaper in price.
 
W

Warren Block

Don Phillipson said:
postscript?

Top quality desktop publishing (to the printer's best
specifications) when using Apple PCs or Adobe
software. PS appeared 20 years ago as the printer
language for Apples. Windows printers and Windows
software have by now become at least equal in
quality and perhaps cheaper in price.

That's a somewhat blurred interpretation. PostScript wasn't designed
for Apple, they just had the sense to use it first. Other systems can
and do use it, including Windows.

There are three main advantages of PostScript:

Quality.
Resolution independence.
Device independence.

The importance of any of those depends on what is being printed.
 
P

Phred

There are three main advantages of PostScript:

Quality.
Resolution independence.
Device independence.

The importance of any of those depends on what is being printed.[/QUOTE]

Every now and then some bugger sends me a PS file in response to a
request for info. It's not such a hassle now because my second hand
HP4100 can print such files if I simply COPY them to PRN; but it was a
pain in the arse before I managed to get hold of a PS aware printer!

The experience has left me wondering if there is a "translator" that
will turn a PS file back into normal editable (or at least a PC
readable image) "text".

I must admit I was originally thinking simple *text*; but as I wrote
the above subject line it finally dawned on me that PostScript is much
more than a text to printer translator! So it seems unlikely that the
original document can easily (and freely :) be restored except as some
sort of PC compatible image format (GIF, JPEG, TIF, ...).

Questions are... Can it be done, and by what?

Cheers, Phred.
 
G

Gary R. Schmidt

Phred said:
There are three main advantages of PostScript:

Quality.
Resolution independence.
Device independence.

The importance of any of those depends on what is being printed.

Every now and then some bugger sends me a PS file in response to a
request for info. It's not such a hassle now because my second hand
HP4100 can print such files if I simply COPY them to PRN; but it was a
pain in the arse before I managed to get hold of a PS aware printer!

The experience has left me wondering if there is a "translator" that
will turn a PS file back into normal editable (or at least a PC
readable image) "text".

I must admit I was originally thinking simple *text*; but as I wrote
the above subject line it finally dawned on me that PostScript is much
more than a text to printer translator! So it seems unlikely that the
original document can easily (and freely :) be restored except as some
sort of PC compatible image format (GIF, JPEG, TIF, ...).

Questions are... Can it be done, and by what?
[/QUOTE]
Ghostscript/ghostview, available for pretty much any OS.
<http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/>

I have a "Generic/Text" printer set up under Windows, and I just print
the PS file to that when I want "pure" text.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
 
B

Bob Eager

There are three main advantages of PostScript:

Quality.
Resolution independence.
Device independence.

The importance of any of those depends on what is being printed.

Every now and then some bugger sends me a PS file in response to a
request for info. It's not such a hassle now because my second hand
HP4100 can print such files if I simply COPY them to PRN; but it was a
pain in the arse before I managed to get hold of a PS aware printer!

The experience has left me wondering if there is a "translator" that
will turn a PS file back into normal editable (or at least a PC
readable image) "text".

I must admit I was originally thinking simple *text*; but as I wrote
the above subject line it finally dawned on me that PostScript is much
more than a text to printer translator! So it seems unlikely that the
original document can easily (and freely :) be restored except as some
sort of PC compatible image format (GIF, JPEG, TIF, ...).

Questions are... Can it be done, and by what?[/QUOTE]

It's never going to be perfect, for the reasons you state.

But Google for ps2ascii

(it'll come up with a load of Linux (spit!) sites, but you shoiuld be
able to find a port for your favourite operating system. There's
certainly one for mine.
 

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