Why Pentium?

[kony]

kony pravi:

Seriously, do you think the Pentium optimizations are better than the
AMD ones?

It doesn't matter, rather that the applications being tested
must have codepaths optimized for the generation of
processor tested. In many cases, they don't have the AMD
optimizations which is a reason for a workstation type use
of these apps to benefit from use of a P4, but
generalization about performance levels must factor for this
as well, that the buyer MUST also buy the software.

Different software will need assessed on it's own, not
vaguely assumed to have similar performance per CPU
architecture.

AMD's 64bit optimizations aren't used very well yet either. But all it
takes is to download properly compiled software (Linux) and you do.

The operating system itself is not at issue, either of these
alternatives are plenty fast enough for the OS. Rather the
applications are the key and no OS optimization is enough
without the app optimization.

And AMDs are practically faster than Intels. I know the numbers look
neater on Intel processors, but AMDs very simply make a computer more
responsive. I'm guessing it's something to do with overall design.

There are several factors, and it's not that Intel's
offerings aren't a good alternative, only that the specific
use must be weighed against the performance/_total_price of
each.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Different software will need assessed on it's own, not
vaguely assumed to have similar performance per CPU
architecture.

Criminy, Korny, this is an English NG. What the hell
language was that? If you'd slow down and stop spewing,
people might know what the hell you're trying to say.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

kony pravi

Buy the cooler fans that have double bearings.

Those purr smoothly even after years of use.

So does my P3 boxed fan. Still using it in the PVR, running 24/7

 

[John Doe]

kony pravi:

Buy the cooler fans that have double bearings.

Those purr smoothly even after years of use.

So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.

 

[John Doe]

Criminy, Korny, this is an English NG. What the hell
language was that? If you'd slow down and stop spewing,
people might know what the hell you're trying to say.

*TimDaniels*

The subject is not that big of a deal, either. The original poster
could have avoided cross posting.

 

[Jure Sah]

John Doe pravi:

So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.

Are those those that don't really have a bearing but only a pocket of
fluid taped in?

They last about a month as far as my experience goes. The upper side of
the bearing is unprotected, which means that surrounding dust (attracted
by the electric charge of the fan engine) can have direct contact with
the fluid. Once there, the dust turns the fluid glue-solid and the fan
comes to a sticky stop, until you remove the fluid with some kind of
ethanol-based solution. Then it spins again, but with no real bearing.

--
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

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01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
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[Jure Sah]

kony pravi:

It doesn't matter, rather that the applications being tested
must have codepaths optimized for the generation of
processor tested. In many cases, they don't have the AMD
optimizations which is a reason for a workstation type use
of these apps to benefit from use of a P4, but
generalization about performance levels must factor for this
as well, that the buyer MUST also buy the software.

The vast majority of software developers does not use a language that
would allow for these specific optimizations. The use of the
optimizations arises from the way their compiler works.

For example the GNU C Compiler can compile the software for any
enstablished CPU of choice.. software is generally compiled for the
Intel 386 processor, with added optional optimizations for MMX and the
various SSEs. Similar applies for how Microsoft compiles it's software
(okay, short of the DirectX drivers). Yet all this software appears to
perform better on AMD processors.

Different software will need assessed on it's own, not
vaguely assumed to have similar performance per CPU
architecture.

That only really applies for benchmarking software and certain
performance-critical code here and there. Nothing to do with general
performance.

Beside CPUs are primarily built to perform well with software compiled
with a specific compiler. Compilers are only adapted to utilize special
features of various CPUs.

The operating system itself is not at issue, either of these
alternatives are plenty fast enough for the OS. Rather the
applications are the key and no OS optimization is enough
without the app optimization.

And your knowledge of software construction is nearing -20% of what it
should be to make that assessment.

Programs depend heavily on the code present in the OS, thus it is
important that the OS is built for speed and compiled to the proper
architecture.

Also, you would probably like to know that in Linux, once the OS of
choice compiled to the proper architecture is installed, practically all
consequent software installed is also of the exact same architecture
(either selected from available sources or automatically compiled for
the exact hardware the Linux system is running on).

There are several factors, and it's not that Intel's
offerings aren't a good alternative, only that the specific
use must be weighed against the performance/_total_price of
each.

The AMD processors I was looking at were cheaper than the Intel ones
I've compared the performance to.


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01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
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[Jure Sah]

kony pravi:

Sure, but the apps themselves can.
Actually it can be a benefit, if for example you wanted to
apply some filters and capture to MPEG4 while using a
system, it'll be good to give that enough priority.

Nearly all modern OSs are rather unsuitable for signal processing. Their
internal system for sharing CPU time amongst programs is inefficient
when you run processes that need a lot of CPU in a fluid manner
alongside those who need little. That's why today you have buffers
everywhere you look.

Your 5 settings of Windows priority will simply not let you OR your
system provide all programs with the optimal share of CPU power. You'd
need the OS doing that for you automatically if you wanted it to work.

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01000010 01000001 01010011 01001001 01000011

 

[John Doe]

John Doe pravi:

Are those those that don't really have a bearing but only a pocket
of fluid taped in?

Sounds like a troll, considering you pretend to have experience with
them. They are called "fluid bearings" or "fluid dynamic bearings".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

They last about a month as far as my experience goes. The upper
side of the bearing is unprotected, which means that surrounding
dust (attracted by the electric charge of the fan engine) can have
direct contact with the fluid. Once there, the dust turns the
fluid glue-solid and the fan comes to a sticky stop, until you
remove the fluid with some kind of ethanol-based solution. Then it
spins again, but with no real bearing.

My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.

 

[John Doe]

kony pravi:

Your 5 settings of Windows priority

In Windows XP, it's 6 settings.

 

[Jure Sah]

John Doe pravi:

Sounds like a troll,

Tell me, is everything that you disagree with a troll to you?

considering you pretend to have experience with
them. They are called "fluid bearings" or "fluid dynamic bearings".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

Sounds like quite what I had in mind.

My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Or maybe you're looking for valid excuses to proove yourself right. All
I'm saying is that the fluid bearing is unsuitable for a microchip
cooling fan and thus do not last long. I have both the experience and
the theory to proove it.

I have seen these fluid bearings in many CPU fans, graphic card fans and
some slot fans. The general characteristics are always the same: The
tiny circular circuit board that manages the magnets that keep the fan
spinning is set directly atop the bearing, the axis is led trough a hole
in the circuit board, the fluid bearing being located inside the plastic
casing supporting the tiny circuit board. The underside of this plastic
casing is taped over with a factory sticker to seal the fluid inside the
bearing. The axis is terminated on this side with a small metal ring
embedded in a shallow gap near the end of the axis, which is floating in
the fluid and is there to prevent the axis from being pulled out of the
bearing vertically.

The upper side of the bearing is thus not sealed shut, as that would be
impossible given the point that the axis needs to be able to rotate
freely. Air travels along the fan and at any point along the fan's
construction where the airflow is slowed down, dust accumulates. The
tiny circuit board's electrical contacts are bare, exposed and charged
with a ~12V electric charge, which is powering the fan. Dust is
attracted by the ionization and tiny dust particles find their way right
to the axis. Very slowly, over time, enough dust accumulates there and
along with the effects of the heat, the fluid turns into a glue-like
substance, preventing the axis from moving. At this point it is very
hard to rotate the fan even with your fingers and sometimes when it
cools off it becomes stuck solid.

Sometimes, you don't even need that as the glue on the back sticker no
longer seals it completely shut and that combined with the heat of the
cooling apparatus causes the fluid to leave the bearing.



--
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Secondary function: Cluster commander

http://www.thought-beacon.net

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01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
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[Jure Sah]

John Doe pravi:

In Windows XP, it's 6 settings.

In any Linux or UNIX it is 20 settings (it's called "Nice", not
"Priority" tho). And in any real-time OS there are no settings as the OS
fine-tunes the priorities automatically at the precision of the CPU clock.

--
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

http://www.thought-beacon.net

Pay once per lifetime webhosting:
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We are the paragon of humanity. You may worship us. From afar.

01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
01000010 01000001 01010011 01001001 01000011

 

[kony]

So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.

"Fluid dynamic bearing" is in itself just a nonsense
marketing term. They all fall into one of two categories,
ball bearing or sleeve. We can further divide into dual
ball, ball + sleeve, and certain types of sleeve designs but
overall the type of fluid bearings used in PC fans is low
quality rather than the high quality sealed bearings used in
hard drives.

 

[kony]

My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk. A
very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic,
Papst, Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball
bearing fans if at all possible. Intel's fans are this, but
intel spec'd for a particularly small center hub and to
achieve that the bearings themselves were downsized from
what the manufacturer normally uses (for better results).

The manufacturer didn't randomly choose larger bearings on a
whim, they knew more about fans than Intel.

 

[kony]

kony pravi:

Nearly all modern OSs are rather unsuitable for signal processing.

Nonsense.

They may be sub-optimal, but we're not doing one hardcoded
task on a PC, the versatility is important too. Unsuitable
in this context would not apply as they certainly can and do
get the job done.

Their
internal system for sharing CPU time amongst programs is inefficient
when you run processes that need a lot of CPU in a fluid manner
alongside those who need little. That's why today you have buffers
everywhere you look.

Yes they're not "as" efficient as they could be, but that is
the nature of a multipurpose system. It couldn't work any
other way and be versatile enough, and inexpensive enough,
to do so many jobs.

Your 5 settings of Windows priority will simply not let you OR your
system provide all programs with the optimal share of CPU power. You'd
need the OS doing that for you automatically if you wanted it to work.

Sure it will, most programs don't need more than a *normal*
priority level, they can sit in the background. If the
workload is so high that multiple realtime activities can't
be done, this is a case that would be a problem for any type
of hardware design, not just a PC.

 

[John Doe]

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

Says who?

A very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic, Papst,
Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball bearing
fans if at all possible.

That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer than
ball bearings.

 

[John Doe]

A troll who needs to provide citations instead of babbling.


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John Doe pravi:

Sounds like a troll,

Tell me, is everything that you disagree with a troll to you?

considering you pretend to have experience with
them. They are called "fluid bearings" or "fluid dynamic bearings".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

Sounds like quite what I had in mind.

My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Or maybe you're looking for valid excuses to proove yourself right. All
I'm saying is that the fluid bearing is unsuitable for a microchip
cooling fan and thus do not last long. I have both the experience and
the theory to proove it.

I have seen these fluid bearings in many CPU fans, graphic card fans and
some slot fans. The general characteristics are always the same: The
tiny circular circuit board that manages the magnets that keep the fan
spinning is set directly atop the bearing, the axis is led trough a hole
in the circuit board, the fluid bearing being located inside the plastic
casing supporting the tiny circuit board. The underside of this plastic
casing is taped over with a factory sticker to seal the fluid inside the
bearing. The axis is terminated on this side with a small metal ring
embedded in a shallow gap near the end of the axis, which is floating in
the fluid and is there to prevent the axis from being pulled out of the
bearing vertically.

The upper side of the bearing is thus not sealed shut, as that would be
impossible given the point that the axis needs to be able to rotate
freely. Air travels along the fan and at any point along the fan's
construction where the airflow is slowed down, dust accumulates. The
tiny circuit board's electrical contacts are bare, exposed and charged
with a ~12V electric charge, which is powering the fan. Dust is
attracted by the ionization and tiny dust particles find their way right
to the axis. Very slowly, over time, enough dust accumulates there and
along with the effects of the heat, the fluid turns into a glue-like
substance, preventing the axis from moving. At this point it is very
hard to rotate the fan even with your fingers and sometimes when it
cools off it becomes stuck solid.

Sometimes, you don't even need that as the glue on the back sticker no
longer seals it completely shut and that combined with the heat of the
cooling apparatus causes the fluid to leave the bearing.



--
Primary function: Coprocessor
Secondary function: Cluster commander

http://www.thought-beacon.net

Pay once per lifetime webhosting:
http://farcomm-it.com/?ref=jsah

We are the paragon of humanity. You may worship us. From afar.

01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
01000010 01000001 01010011 01001001 01000011

 

[John Doe]

A troll who doesn't know what a fluid dynamic bearing is.


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So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.

"Fluid dynamic bearing" is in itself just a nonsense
marketing term. They all fall into one of two categories,
ball bearing or sleeve. We can further divide into dual
ball, ball + sleeve, and certain types of sleeve designs but
overall the type of fluid bearings used in PC fans is low
quality rather than the high quality sealed bearings used in
hard drives.

 

[John Doe]

I knew this troll was going to have a tough time with my simple
correction.


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John Doe pravi:

In Windows XP, it's 6 settings.

In any Linux or UNIX it is 20 settings (it's called "Nice", not
"Priority" tho). And in any real-time OS there are no settings as the OS
fine-tunes the priorities automatically at the precision of the CPU clock.

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[kony]

Says who?

Anyone that's had a few years experience dealing with failed
fans.

That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer than
ball bearings.

There is no reputable source to back up your claim. Even
the premium fan manufacturers themselves acknowledge
otherwise so you're either quite ignorant and stupid for
drawing a conclusion while ignorant, or just trolling.