Why not Photoshop Elements?

[Richard Lynch]

Was looking through the archives and saw a number of mentions of which
software to use/buy. Many times it was Photoshop or some
lesser-recognized software. Though there are advantages to Photoshop,
there are obvious cost constraints. Another option that people looking
for Photoshop often dismiss before looking into it is Photoshop
Elements:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006ANW9/newwriting/

If you add my book to that:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwriting/

You really get about 95% of what you need to work with
images...especially as a beginner. An honest evaluation of what you
need can save you a lot of $$. I use Elements professionally at my day
job, and it is really all I need for that. With the money saved in the
budget, I was able to purchase a second monitor setup (card and
monitor), plus RAM:
Card:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000065U8S/newwriting/
RAM:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000063K75/newwriting/
Monitor:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068CLU/newwriting/

This update was worth more to the way I work than Photoshop.

If you are convinced you need PS I would be curious as to why. There
certainly are reasons, but for almost every beginner I would recommend
Elements. And it isn't just because I wrote a book on it...I write
about Photoshop too!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782142559/newwriting/

Richard Lynch

 

[Wislu Plethora]

-----Original Message-----
Was looking through the archives and saw a number of mentions of which
software to use/buy. Many times it was Photoshop or some
lesser-recognized software. Though there are advantages to Photoshop,
there are obvious cost constraints. Another option that people looking
for Photoshop often dismiss before looking into it is Photoshop
ng/

If you add my book to that:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwriti ng/

You really get about 95% of what you need to work with
images...especially as a beginner. An honest evaluation of what you
need can save you a lot of $$. I use Elements professionally at my day
job, and it is really all I need for that. With the money saved in the
budget, I was able to purchase a second monitor setup (card and
monitor), plus RAM:
Card:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000065U8S/newwriti ng/
ng/

This update was worth more to the way I work than Photoshop.

If you are convinced you need PS I would be curious as to why. There
certainly are reasons, but for almost every beginner I would recommend
Elements. And it isn't just because I wrote a book on it...I write
about Photoshop too!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782142559/newwriti ng/

Richard Lynch
.

My guess is that for most of the Photoshop users here, cost
is not an issue, as bootlegs and copies are readily
available. I agree that Elements is the way to go unless
there is some special need for the Big Guy. In perusing
the posts here you will come to the inevitable conclusion
that the learning curve for either is much too steep for
for many, though.

 

[Millybags]

I use Elements 2 with the Power Tools as described in Richard's book.
Separations, curves - you got em with these tools in Elements. The Learning
curve is fun!! Just buy the book and read it - it comes with a CD.... and
well all I can say is get it. Who knows, I may get the PS starship one day,
but I can't justify it right now.

Steve

 

[Yves Alarie]

Your post is incorrect and false.
Try to find a post where PS was recommended to a beginner here. You will not
find one. Not a single one. Period.
No way.
I have PS7, PE2, Microsoft Digital Image Suite 9, Qimage, Irfanview, etc.
etc. etc.
The most frequently recommended photo software here for a beginner is
Irfanview. It is FREE, look here:
http://irfanview.com/
Run a search on this forum for Irfanview. Then run a search for Photoshop.
What you will find with PS and PE2 is we keep answering questions that XP
CRASHED or SLOWS to a CRAWL or other problems with PS7 or PE2. I get an
error, out of memory, my thumbnails are slow to open, I get a message about
scratch disk, what is a scratch disk, on and on and on at nauseum. Does your
book answers these questions, or are you leaving this to us to answer?

I did recommend PE2 to someone here, not a beginner, he was oriented toward
Web publishing and I think PE2 does a great job on this.

Get me a single post in the archives recommending PS7 (or now PS CS) to a
beginner. I don't need many, one will suffice. And if some lesser-recognized
software is recommended, do you have anything against this?
We never get Irfanview or Qimage ( try a demo here:
http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/ ) (lesser-recognized software) is
crashing my system. Why do we get PS7 or PE2 is crashing my system? Can you
talk to Adobe? Then maybe we will start recommending PE2 for beginners if
the complaints stop.

 

[Yves Alarie]

You can't do this to me. Your acumen at detecting ..............failed.
Failed miserably. You must be Christmas shopping and in the Christmas
spirit. Shame on you. No, I take this back. Stay with the Christmas spirit.
It happens to all of us, but only, I hope, once a year!

 

[Paul Ballou]

You will find PS is used by beginners that's what they use at the
college where I took graphic art courses. It was the first Photo editor I
ever used and the only one until a few years ago. I wouldn't recommend PS
for a beginner only because of the price. PS is easier to learn than any
other image editor that I've used.

--
Paul Ballou
MVP Design Gallery Live
http://office.microsoft.com/clipart/default.aspx

Control the things you can and Don't Worry about the things you can't
control.

 

[Richard Lynch]

Your post is incorrect and false.
Try to find a post where PS was recommended to a beginner here. You will not
find one. Not a single one. Period.

Gee, thanks. However, I think you are wrong. I also would be surprised
if you have the 15,000+ threads memorized. I don't, as I just found
the group...but I am sure of what i was reading, if only a small
sample.

Even if you look back and don't see specific reference with a title to
the post that says "Beginners Software" (don't try, I can't find
one...and it isn't the point anyway), just via the discussion there is
frequent mention of Photoshop. I meant that Photoshop gets brought up
a lot where Elements (LEGALLY) will do -- as will many other less
expensive programs. I find the mention that one should pirate in
response to be a little disheartening...can't afford a Porche, steal
one, eh?

Perhaps I was not clear enough. As the keeper of the postings, I am
glad Yves is 100% clear. As that is the case, Yves own statements
should suffice for my point:

In fact in one of Yves posts (granted a year ago) it is touted that
Photoshop 7 can be used for red eye (Re: Red Eye in Digital Photos).
Granted Yves quickly retracts it by saying that Photoshop would be
overkill for red-eye alone, but the fact is that removing red eye is a
first-step-in-digital-editing type of problem. That it is overkill is
exactly my point -- and thank you for bringing it up.

Many people have a misconception that Photoshop is the only tool that
can do these things, that it has some phenominal magical powers, or
somehow always works better...It is just an image editor, and
discussions can often make it seem like it has features that other
programs don't. In some cases it is true, but these photoshop-only
features are not the basic ones you use every day...they are the
advanced ones. I can't point to the exact place I was starting to read
through threads, but the lean toward PS seemed pervasive. Forgive me
if I was reading in...but the fact is, it happens in almost every
group on image editing. I was thinking the discussion here might be
weighted more toward some other products. THAT is what I was reacting
to. Photoshop is simply mentioned too much. I really like it and use
it all the time, but there are other, legal, alternatives. I use
Elements at my day job, by choice.

Yves, I am not sure what your motivation is, unless there is an urgent
need to have me explain mine...I would think your energies could be
put to better use. Happy holiday.

Richard Lynch
http://hiddenelements.com

 

[John Inzer]

Do a search for Yves in this ng and you will find
that he volunteers his time and expertise in this
newsgroup day in and day out. There's no doubt
that he knows what is going on here.

In a newsgroup that is centered on photos...Photo-
Shop and Elements would certainly be mentioned
but the excellent freeware IrfanView is easily the
most recommended program to beginners and
oldtimers alike.

Please...sell your books somewhere else...it's off
topic in this newsgroup and not permitted.

Here are the Rules of Conduct:
http://tinyurl.com/ydvp


--

John Inzer
Picture It! MVP
return e-mail disabled

Picture It! Support Center
http://support.microsoft.com/?pr=pic

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----
Was looking through the archives and saw a number of mentions of which
software to use/buy. Many times it was Photoshop or some
lesser-recognized software. Though there are advantages to Photoshop,
there are obvious cost constraints. Another option that people looking
for Photoshop often dismiss before looking into it is Photoshop
ing/

If you add my book to that:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwrit ing/

You really get about 95% of what you need to work with
images...especially as a beginner. An honest evaluation of what you
need can save you a lot of $$. I use Elements professionally at my day
job, and it is really all I need for that. With the money saved in the
budget, I was able to purchase a second monitor setup (card and
monitor), plus RAM:
Card:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000065U8S/newwrit ing/
ing/

This update was worth more to the way I work than Photoshop.

If you are convinced you need PS I would be curious as to why. There
certainly are reasons, but for almost every beginner I would recommend
Elements. And it isn't just because I wrote a book on it...I write
about Photoshop too!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782142559/newwrit ing/

Richard Lynch
.

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----

ti ti money
saved in the ti
ti
ti to
why. There ti

My guess is that for most of the Photoshop users here, cost
is not an issue, as bootlegs and copies are readily
available. I agree that Elements is the way to go unless
there is some special need for the Big Guy. In perusing
the posts here you will come to the inevitable conclusion
that the learning curve for either is much too steep for
for many, though.
.

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----
I use Elements 2 with the Power Tools as described in Richard's book.
Separations, curves - you got em with these tools in Elements. The Learning
curve is fun!! Just buy the book and read it - it comes with a CD.... and
well all I can say is get it. Who knows, I may get the PS starship one day,
but I can't justify it right now.

Steve


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006ANW9/newwriti
ng/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwriti
ng/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000065U8S/newwriti
ng/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000063K75/newwriti
ng/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068CLU/newwriti
ng/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782142559/newwriti
ng/


.

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----
I use Elements 2 with the Power Tools as described in Richard's book.
Separations, curves - you got em with these tools in Elements. The Learning
curve is fun!! Just buy the book and read it - it comes with a CD.... and
well all I can say is get it. Who knows, I may get the PS starship one day,
but I can't justify it right now.

Steve


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006ANW9/newwriti
ng/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782141781/newwriti
ng/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000065U8S/newwriti
ng/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000063K75/newwriti
ng/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068CLU/newwriti
ng/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0782142559/newwriti
ng/


.

 

[Wislu Plethora]

-----Original Message-----
You can't do this to me. Your acumen at

detecting ..............failed.

Failed miserably. You must be Christmas shopping and in the Christmas
spirit. Shame on you. No, I take this back. Stay with the Christmas spirit.
It happens to all of us, but only, I hope, once a year!

What in the heck are you talking about?

 

[Charlie]

I have and use Irfanview. Every day. No question a terrific product. The same could be said for PhotoShop7 and PaintShop Pro8 which, IMHO gives an intermediate the best bang for the buck, though like any of the MudHut apps has its' own learning curve; the newest version makes it a whole lot more user friendly. I also have PSE1 and 2, but don't use them anymore. On numerous occasions I'd tried to find a specific tool in PS7 for red-eye removal, but found none until browsing an article in some now-forgotten foto mag that suggested de-saturating then burning the offending areas/colors. It's the technique I use while in PS7 to this day. While attending some local adult-ed PhotoShop classes I was aghast when the instructor suggested the attendees go out and buy the Adobe full-blown, $600 software. He went ballistic when I mentioned PictureIt! (at the time, version 7) to another classmate, stating that I might have been undermining his tutorial authority and that, after all it was a Photoshop course. After that session I reiterated to that same other student my own experience with the MS product, that it was (again, IMO) by far the best value, easiest, right-out-of-the-box application for a beginner to use.

Hope I'm not re-ruffling anyone's feathers with any of the above opinions.


In fact in one of Yves posts (granted a year ago) it is touted that
Photoshop 7 can be used for red eye (Re: Red Eye in Digital Photos).
Granted Yves quickly retracts it by saying that Photoshop would be
overkill for red-eye alone, but the fact is that removing red eye is a
first-step-in-digital-editing type of problem. That it is overkill is
exactly my point -- and thank you for bringing it up.

Many people have a misconception that Photoshop is the only tool that
can do these things, that it has some phenominal magical powers, or
somehow always works better...It is just an image editor, and
discussions can often make it seem like it has features that other
programs don't. In some cases it is true, but these photoshop-only
features are not the basic ones you use every day...they are the
advanced ones. I can't point to the exact place I was starting to read
through threads, but the lean toward PS seemed pervasive. Forgive me
if I was reading in...but the fact is, it happens in almost every
group on image editing. I was thinking the discussion here might be
weighted more toward some other products. THAT is what I was reacting
to. Photoshop is simply mentioned too much. I really like it and use
it all the time, but there are other, legal, alternatives. I use
Elements at my day job, by choice.

 

[David Candy]

No, but your grammar does.

Try an amazing thing I heard about recently. It's called a paragraph.
--
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.g2mil.com/Dec2003.htm
I have and use Irfanview. Every day. No question a terrific product. The same could be said for PhotoShop7 and PaintShop Pro8 which, IMHO gives an intermediate the best bang for the buck, though like any of the MudHut apps has its' own learning curve; the newest version makes it a whole lot more user friendly. I also have PSE1 and 2, but don't use them anymore. On numerous occasions I'd tried to find a specific tool in PS7 for red-eye removal, but found none until browsing an article in some now-forgotten foto mag that suggested de-saturating then burning the offending areas/colors. It's the technique I use while in PS7 to this day. While attending some local adult-ed PhotoShop classes I was aghast when the instructor suggested the attendees go out and buy the Adobe full-blown, $600 software. He went ballistic when I mentioned PictureIt! (at the time, version 7) to another classmate, stating that I might have been undermining his tutorial authority and that, after all it was a Photoshop course. After that session I reiterated to that same other student my own experience with the MS product, that it was (again, IMO) by far the best value, easiest, right-out-of-the-box application for a beginner to use.

Hope I'm not re-ruffling anyone's feathers with any of the above opinions.


In fact in one of Yves posts (granted a year ago) it is touted that
Photoshop 7 can be used for red eye (Re: Red Eye in Digital Photos).
Granted Yves quickly retracts it by saying that Photoshop would be
overkill for red-eye alone, but the fact is that removing red eye is a
first-step-in-digital-editing type of problem. That it is overkill is
exactly my point -- and thank you for bringing it up.

Many people have a misconception that Photoshop is the only tool that
can do these things, that it has some phenominal magical powers, or
somehow always works better...It is just an image editor, and
discussions can often make it seem like it has features that other
programs don't. In some cases it is true, but these photoshop-only
features are not the basic ones you use every day...they are the
advanced ones. I can't point to the exact place I was starting to read
through threads, but the lean toward PS seemed pervasive. Forgive me
if I was reading in...but the fact is, it happens in almost every
group on image editing. I was thinking the discussion here might be
weighted more toward some other products. THAT is what I was reacting
to. Photoshop is simply mentioned too much. I really like it and use
it all the time, but there are other, legal, alternatives. I use
Elements at my day job, by choice.