Why is the video card industry driven by games but not the Monitor industry?

L

Leythos

If the FOV is set correctly, thats not true. If you set close to a 24"
monitor, you widen our FOV with the result that you can see more. Like
in real life. If you;re sitting a long way off, then you should narrow
the FOV, otherwise you're only able to see through a window thats 30°
wide and 2 foot away - not like life at all.

Actually, as a target shooting I completely understand FOV, in fact, a
smaller FOV is what is needed to play most games and for target shooting -
as a larger field of view means more information, smaller objects, harder
to find target point.
You don't seem to understand FOV (Field of View). The human eye has a
(horizontal) FOV of well over 120°, from where I'm sitting the monitor
probably takes up about 35°. So most of my periphery vision in-game
has been lost. I literally cannot see things outside of my FOV without
turning, whereas in real life you can pretty much see things approaching
from either side simultaneously. If I could, I would be a better gamer,
I would spot things earlier.

Having a 35% FOV on a screen, 24" widescreen unit, that's 18 inches (and
many game players play with less than that) in front of you, means you
move your eyes more than I would on a 19" screen at the same distance -
less eye strain.
How? Assuming that frame rates are high, how can less detail be better?

Easier to place the reticle on the target point - this isn't horse-shoes.
Most games require exact placement of a shot in order to be most
effective, the lower res often relates into better accuracy as a single
pixel, in some games, is related to screen res and that means shot
accuracy.
Actually it's really nice. When my 9800 Pro could do games at 1600x1200
(such as splinter cell), the level of detail in far-off objects was a
great help. Contrast that to what you would see on a console with a
standard TV - with such a low resolution you lose depth of field and
have to get closer to the target to know what it is.

I have played at those res and I didn't like it, it was harder to place
the shot.
It always amases me how little people spend on a monitor, mouse and
keyboard. They'll buy the fastest processor, fastest graphics card,
some will buy 2 of the fastest hard drives... the system might cost
£1000. But often, only 10% of that is spent on the entire HCI
equipment! What good is an amazing computer when you can't tell 'cos
your monitor is poor and the mouse is wonky?

I mostly agree with you, beyond a certain level there is little difference
in monitor quality - if you spend about $500~$700 on a quality CRT you get
about the best image quality regardless of size. I do agree about the
keyboard, mouse, monitor being very key points - as I always tell
customers, those are the only things you see/use on the computer that make
a difference.

Due to certain vendors making games that exceed the current technology in
video cards, having a fast card is also becoming important, but you won't
see much difference in image quality as long as you purchase a mid/upper
level monitor. For most gamers, the $350 Viewsonic 19" won't provide much
over the $500 Viewsonic 19" monitor.
 
B

Ben Pope

Leythos said:
Actually, as a target shooting I completely understand FOV, in fact, a
smaller FOV is what is needed to play most games and for target shooting -
as a larger field of view means more information, smaller objects, harder
to find target point.

Having the extra information means that you can see the target on screen
by moving your eyes, instead of the characters head. Thats quicker.

What you're saying is that if you stuck a box on your head, with a
window in front of you (in real life), you'd be more effective. I doubt
it. I'm not saying the objects are going to be any smaller at all...
your distance from the screen compensates that.
Having a 35% FOV on a screen, 24" widescreen unit, that's 18 inches (and
many game players play with less than that) in front of you, means you
move your eyes more than I would on a 19" screen at the same distance -
less eye strain.

I don't get any eye strain so I can't comment.
Easier to place the reticle on the target point - this isn't horse-shoes.
Most games require exact placement of a shot in order to be most
effective, the lower res often relates into better accuracy as a single
pixel, in some games, is related to screen res and that means shot
accuracy.

When you play at a higher resolution you have greater depth of field
(potentially). That doesn't make things smaller... but it does allow
you to see smaller things. If you play at 800x600, and a target is
6pixels across, you might find it hard to work out what it is. If you
play at 1600x1200, it's 12 pixels across, and that might provide enough
information to know whether it's a tree or an enemy soldier.

Equivelently, I can now see things which are further away... I have
greater depth of field.
I have played at those res and I didn't like it, it was harder to place
the shot.

I still don't see how... the target is the same physical size regardless
of your resolution.
I mostly agree with you, beyond a certain level there is little difference
in monitor quality - if you spend about $500~$700 on a quality CRT you get
about the best image quality regardless of size.

I have a Sony G400 (19" CRT) it must be over 5 years old now. I run my
desktop at 1600x1200@85Hz - I can and often do, sit here all day long
coding and never get eye strain. It was an excellent investment, even
at £400 back then.
I do agree about the
keyboard, mouse, monitor being very key points - as I always tell
customers, those are the only things you see/use on the computer that make
a difference.

My mouse is the Logitech MX1000 - it's outstanding... I couldn't fault
the MX700 but after using this one, I can tell you it really is a superb
bit if kit that does go that extra mile. Keyboard is Logitech too, say
nearly £100 on mouse/keyboard (which is, admittedly, excessive), but
given the amount of time I sit in front of it, I think it's worth it.
Due to certain vendors making games that exceed the current technology in
video cards, having a fast card is also becoming important, but you won't
see much difference in image quality as long as you purchase a mid/upper
level monitor. For most gamers, the $350 Viewsonic 19" won't provide much
over the $500 Viewsonic 19" monitor.

Understood... for gaming. But then a TV seems to work well too, in many
situations.

You don't really need 1600x1200 on a 19" screen. Much beyond, say
1280x960 with a tad of AA and the image is fine. Given the dot pitch of
my screen, 1440*1080 is probably the maximum "detail" you'll get from
it, but it's still sharp at 1600x1200.

Ben
 
L

Leythos

When you play at a higher resolution you have greater depth of field
(potentially). That doesn't make things smaller... but it does allow
you to see smaller things. If you play at 800x600, and a target is
6pixels across, you might find it hard to work out what it is. If you
play at 1600x1200, it's 12 pixels across, and that might provide enough
information to know whether it's a tree or an enemy soldier.

Not on any of the First Person games I play, a object that is 6 pixels at
800x600 is also 6 pixels at 1600x1200.

If everything increased in pixels when you change resolution, there would
be little point, other than possibly more detail in those extra pixels, if
the card/game actually provided those extra details.

I've yet to see a game, CS, CS Source, Unreal, FarCry, where you got
"more" detail at a higher resolution - sure you get more area/view, but
it's the same detail.
 
A

Andrew

Not on any of the First Person games I play, a object that is 6 pixels at
800x600 is also 6 pixels at 1600x1200.

So every object is half the size on the screen at 1600x1200? Try to
think through what you wrote.
 
L

Leythos

So every object is half the size on the screen at 1600x1200? Try to
think through what you wrote.

Not quite half the size, but if you go from 800x600 to 1600x1200 you see
more of the surrounding area, but everything is much smaller - call it
what you want, but it's still smaller and not double the size.
 
B

Ben Pope

Leythos said:
Not quite half the size, but if you go from 800x600 to 1600x1200 you see
more of the surrounding area, but everything is much smaller - call it
what you want, but it's still smaller and not double the size.

For a given display, a given object, viewed from a given point will be a
fixed physical size regardless of resolution. Thats true for every
single 3D game I have played.

If you move from 800x600 to 1600x1200 the object has 4 times as many
pixels that make it up, and it therefore has more detail.

Ben
 
B

boe

It turns out LG has a 32" LCD with a 8ms response time. That is pretty
impressive. This gives me hope that they might make a standard format
instead of wide screen that might come closer to my goal.
 
J

J. Clarke

Minotaur said:
You want Quality, not Lucky Goldstar :)

What leads you to believe that LG suffers from any lack of quality? I've
been using their stuff now for 15 years or so with no problems. The only
problems I've ever even _heard_ of anybody having with their stuff were
with the firmware on a few models of DVD burner. It's not always cutting
edge but it's always been reliable. Bear in mind that they make IBM heavy
iron for the Korean market. If they lacked quality IBM would not license
them to do that.
8ms I doubt it, but if so,
sounds great..

<http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetai...level=3&totalItem=31&currentPage=1&perPage=10>

Currently everybody seems to be sold out.
 
C

Coup

It turns out LG has a 32" LCD with a 8ms response time. That is pretty
impressive. This gives me hope that they might make a standard format
instead of wide screen that might come closer to my goal.

Also close:

HP L2335 based on the same panel used by one Apple monitor.
23 inches, 1920x1200 max resolution, HP doesn't quote a response time,
I'm betting it's 25ms at best, and the one review I have found says
you have REAL fun finding a video card that will sync to it at
1920x1200...but it can be done.
 
J

J. Clarke

repairs_r_us said:
If you'd been around for more than 15 years, you'd remember the gawd
awful cheap TV sets that Goldstar used to whore around.

I don't remember seeing a "Goldstar" TV until very recently. The first LG
product I remember seeing was a monitor that had been working fine for
years.

But that might have been the time in my life when I had little interest in
television.
 
R

repairs_r_us

What leads you to believe that LG suffers from any lack of quality? I've
been using their stuff now for 15 years or so with no problems.

If you'd been around for more than 15 years, you'd remember the gawd
awful cheap TV sets that Goldstar used to whore around.
 
L

LOL

Since bigger won't improve your online playing ability, won't improve your
shot accuracy, and will increase eye strain, what are you hoping to get
out of the larger monitor?

You live in an interesting world. Do they have you on prozac ?
 
L

Leythos

You live in an interesting world. Do they have you on prozac ?

Do you not understand the basics of resolution and gaming while you're on
Viagra? I think the blue shift has tinted your judgment.
 
G

grolschie

with no problems.

If you'd been around for more than 15 years, you'd remember the gawd
awful cheap TV sets that Goldstar used to whore
around.

Their CD Writers are great. The old Goldstar
stereos from the 90's were nasty.
 
L

LOL

Do you not understand the basics of resolution and gaming while you're on
Viagra? I think the blue shift has tinted your judgment.


LOL. Some of us have real eyes and real reflexes.

We don't make up strange excuses and then pawn them off on others ;)

Buy the 21" Mitsubishi/Nec CRT monitor.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top