Intel Ruining The pc gaming industry?

[StraightEdge]

Epic claims Intel is ruining the PC gaming industry
Filed under: PC, Opinion, Graphic Cards, Videogames, Videogame
Developers - Satan @ 05:18 am

Epic claims Intel is ruining the PC gaming industry

Mark Rein, vice president of game designer Epic has said in a statement
that microprocessor giants Intel are ruining the PC Videogaming
industry.

Epic is the developer of legendary videogames including the Unreal
Tournament. The comments from Mark Rein came at a game developer's
conference in Brighton, England.

He said during his keynote speech that low capabilities of the
Intel's integrated graphics chips which is very popular on
motherboards in the market has resulted in gamers leaving the PC
platform for Videogaming consoles.

He said: "I'm concerned about the level of growth in the PC games
business. A $900 PC is nowhere near as capable as a $299 Xbox 360
console. We're losing PC gamers in record numbers. Integrated
graphics cards cannot compete with the console gaming experience."

Not every computer user like to invest in a dedicated high quality
graphic card which can sometime cost more than a gaming console like
the Xbox and the PS2.

Mark Rein also referred to some statistics. He said that almost 80
percent of new laptops and 55 percent of new desktops contain
integrated graphics cards. He also claimed that two major videogame
developing companies are considering moving out of the PC games market
to exclusively concentrate on consoles.

Microsoft's entry in the Videogaming console market has sparked
intense competition in this segment. Both Sony and Nintendo are more
aggressive now. Sony and Nintendo are due to come out with Sony
Playstation 3 and Nintendo Wii consoles later this year. These would
take on the already out Microsoft Xbox 360 in the market.

http://games.techwhack.com/495/intel-is-ruining-the-pc-gaming-industry/

its possible but that the consoles might eventually beat out pc's but
im not sure how probable it is.

http://grispernmix.googlepages.com/home

http://grispernmix.googlepages.com/home

 

[Paul]

Epic claims Intel is ruining the PC gaming industry

And anyone who is serious about gaming, knows not to
rely on integrated graphics. Integrated graphics have
been around for a few years, so how is this a big
deal now ? I'd say somebody was looking for an excuse
to concentrate on consoles.

Putting a 50W integrated graphics chip in a notebook,
and burning a hole in someone's lap, is not going to
revive gaming.

And I wonder how much Vista and DX10 will contribute
to the move to consoles. Microsoft has interests in both
areas, and has more say in which industry succeeds, than
Intel does. Splitting the potential gaming market into
DX9 users and DX10 users is not helping matters.

Paul

 

[JohnS]

Epic claims Intel is ruining the PC gaming industry
Filed under: PC, Opinion, Graphic Cards, Videogames, Videogame
Developers - Satan @ 05:18 am

Epic claims Intel is ruining the PC gaming industry

Yeah I think hes a bit off base there blaming INTEL. Everyones trying
to make money so its natural for the focus to shift to consoles since
the Xbox was introed not that long ago and now the PS3 and Wii is
coming out. In the past there was only the PS2 with Nintendo mainly
for kids so ther wasnt as much competition for the PC gaming
industry.

Thats a factor and frankly decent gaming hardware has never been this
plentiful and cheap. Theres stuff from several eras that are still
usable from the 3200 XP AMDs and older Pents to the Semprons ---- I
saw a 3100 + MB combo for $59 at Frys posted, to the cheaper and
cheaper AMD 64s ($115 combo at newegg) to the Pent 805D and now huge
cuts on the AM2 X2 3800s down to $160 I saw recently.

Add to that the older but still usable 9550-9600 ATIs Ive bought for
as little as $38 and ram getting cheaper and cheaper and newer cards
like the 6600GT falling to the 100 or so and lots of older ATIs 850s ,
800XLs for super cheap ---- if you know what you are doing there hasnt
been a better time to buy gaming hardware.

Now the conroes will be out and talk of AM2s countering it with 4x4
dual socket motherboards.

The problem is the pricewar going on with PCs pushing hardware prices
down to 199-299 for a system. You cant expect to get a monitor,
printer, speakers, DVD rom etc for that price AND a good gaming card
too ! So its actually not a problem but a opportunity. With super
budget cheapo systems around now you have money leftoever to buy at
least a 100 buck graphics card far better than the old days when you
bought a system for 600-1000 and still got a wimpy graphics card. In
the past I used to see gaming systems hyped and going for $2000-3000
and gaming laptops too used to be exclusively in the very high end.
Now I was shocked to see DELL $800-1200 laptops with widescreens and
higher end Nvidia graphics chipsets on sale a little while ago.

The main problem arent the prices or Intel /HP/DELL trying to lower
prices way way down. Its spreading the knowledge of graphics cards and
PC hardware. All my neighbors etc except for a few teens who are
really into it are totally clueless and if you walk into a Compusa etc
a salesmen is going to talk you into spending $800-1000 for a system
its their job. What the gaming industry should do is have real
uptodate websites with recommendations for cheap upgrades and system
specs and have gaming info booths at Compusa etc.

Have some sort of cross promotion maybe with movies and their game
versions and ways to easily get info about cheap upgrades and up to
date hardware in general. The problem is of course Nvidia and ATI wont
want lots of info out there about how an old 9600 or 9800 maybe OK for
many people on a budget because they want to force as many people as
possible to buy the new more expensive stuff which is fair because
they need to make a profit and recoup development costs too.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yeah I think hes a bit off base there blaming INTEL. Everyones trying
to make money so its natural for the focus to shift to consoles since
the Xbox was introed not that long ago and now the PS3 and Wii is
coming out. In the past there was only the PS2 with Nintendo mainly
for kids so ther wasnt as much competition for the PC gaming
industry.

Thats a factor and frankly decent gaming hardware has never been this
plentiful and cheap. Theres stuff from several eras that are still
usable from the 3200 XP AMDs and older Pents to the Semprons ---- I
saw a 3100 + MB combo for $59 at Frys posted, to the cheaper and
cheaper AMD 64s ($115 combo at newegg) to the Pent 805D and now huge
cuts on the AM2 X2 3800s down to $160 I saw recently.

Add to that the older but still usable 9550-9600 ATIs Ive bought for
as little as $38 and ram getting cheaper and cheaper and newer cards
like the 6600GT falling to the 100 or so and lots of older ATIs 850s ,
800XLs for super cheap ---- if you know what you are doing there hasnt
been a better time to buy gaming hardware.

Now the conroes will be out and talk of AM2s countering it with 4x4
dual socket motherboards.

The problem is the pricewar going on with PCs pushing hardware prices
down to 199-299 for a system. You cant expect to get a monitor,
printer, speakers, DVD rom etc for that price AND a good gaming card
too ! So its actually not a problem but a opportunity. With super
budget cheapo systems around now you have money leftoever to buy at
least a 100 buck graphics card far better than the old days when you
bought a system for 600-1000 and still got a wimpy graphics card. In
the past I used to see gaming systems hyped and going for $2000-3000
and gaming laptops too used to be exclusively in the very high end.
Now I was shocked to see DELL $800-1200 laptops with widescreens and
higher end Nvidia graphics chipsets on sale a little while ago.

The main problem arent the prices or Intel /HP/DELL trying to lower prices way
way down. Its spreading the knowledge of graphics cards and PC hardware.

Nope, the world's moved on. Kids concentrate on
consoles and nothing will ever change that now.

Hand crafted personally assembled PCs will never ever
amount to more than a tiny niche of the games market now.

l my neighbors etc except for a few teens who are really into it are tally clueless

Yes, but the kids can tell you the advantages and disadvantages of all the consoles.

and if you walk into a Compusa etc a salesmen is going to
talk you into spending $800-1000 for a system its their job.

And even if you dont buy that bullshit, you will never get
a personally assembled PC thats aimed at gaming for
anything like what you can get one of the latest consoles for.

Thats what a mass market is always about.

What the gaming industry should do is have real uptodate
websites with recommendations for cheap upgrades and
system specs and have gaming info booths at Compusa etc.

It wouldnt help any, the world's moved on.

Have some sort of cross promotion maybe with movies and their game
versions and ways to easily get info about cheap upgrades and up to
date hardware in general. The problem is of course Nvidia and ATI wont
want lots of info out there about how an old 9600 or 9800 maybe OK for
many people on a budget because they want to force as many people
as possible to buy the new more expensive stuff which is fair because
they need to make a profit and recoup development costs too.

Yep, the world keeps moving on.

Just like it does with the car industry too.

 

[JohnS]

And even if you dont buy that bullshit, you will never get
a personally assembled PC thats aimed at gaming for
anything like what you can get one of the latest consoles for.

You dont have to. Thats the whole point ---- there is more competition
so obviously consoles wont go away. PCs wont obviously take over but
that doesnt mean they have to rollover and play dead. Nobody does
that.

For one thing gaming PCs represent an incremental cost . Its not a PS3
or Xbox which by the way are more like 399 plus extras and the PS3
even more expensive vs PC choice. A huge portion of the segment
already has a PC and must buy new PCs periodically for other things
besides games anyway. Many families because of the low prices buy
multiple PCs for their kids.

And thats the other point ---- if you had the knowledge or someone in
your family and had a sempron 3100 system as I mentioned low cost.
Frys 59 combo , 512 stick of mem 29 AR this week and a 800XL for 130.
We arent talking 1000 or even 500. Will your grandmother who cant
work the VCR being doing such upgrades ? No but a lot more teens and
adults could be doing it. Thats where it could help.

The PC is still in the running for the much hyped home appliance
convergence device with the Xbox PS3 and even the TIVO though they all
have advantages and disadvantages. With a PC you have a plethora of
new and constantly changing and cheap hardware ---- which you dont
have with consoles. They are great when they first come out but
several years later start getting a bit old which of course is the
same with PC cards etc too but you have the choice of upgrading much
more often if you want to.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

You dont have to. Thats the whole point ---- there is more competition
so obviously consoles wont go away. PCs wont obviously take over but
that doesnt mean they have to rollover and play dead. Nobody does that.

No one is saying anything about rolling over and playing dead.

For one thing gaming PCs represent an incremental cost.

No they dont when those using their PCs for gaming are normally
upgrading them because they need better gaming performance.

Its not a PS3 or Xbox which by the way are more like 399 plus extras

Thats very superficial, even if you just consider what gets
spent on the PC that is only for the gaming performance.

and the PS3 even more expensive vs PC choice.

Nope, not when you look at what is spent on the PC for the gaming performance.

A huge portion of the segment already has a PC and must buy
new PCs periodically for other things besides games anyway.

Bugger all upgrade their PCs for other than the gaming performance.

Many families because of the low prices buy multiple PCs for their kids.

And the bulk of the boys particularly demand a PC that has decent
gaming performance if they dont just use consoles for gaming.

And thats the other point ---- if you had the knowledge or someone
in your family and had a sempron 3100 system as I mentioned low
cost. Frys 59 combo , 512 stick of mem 29 AR this week and a
800XL for 130. We arent talking 1000 or even 500.

The absolute vast bulk of those who use consoles wont even
be able to use those items to upgrade their existing PC.

THATS why the bulk of the gaming chipset
development aint for PCs, its for consoles.

Will your grandmother who cant work the VCR being doing such
upgrades ? No but a lot more teens and adults could be doing it.

Nope, they cant even add an extra hard drive.

Thats where it could help.

Nope, its never gunna fly except for a
tiny market that do use PCs for gaming.

Rein has lost the plot completely.

The PC is still in the running for the much hyped home appliance
convergence device with the Xbox PS3 and even the TIVO

Nope, its done its dash with gaming and
with media PCs its still an open question.

And thats from someone who did his own 4 channel PVR for the much better
flexibility than you get with the alternatives. I'm not silly enough to believe
that more than a tiny subset of the market is capable of doing that tho.

though they all have advantages and disadvantages. With
a PC you have a plethora of new and constantly changing
and cheap hardware ---- which you dont have with consoles.

Yes, but you do have to know how to combine those into a viable system
and bugger all of the market does and bugger all of the market ever will too.

The world moved on a long time ago now, largely for that
reason, but also because of the poor economics with using
PCs for gaming of stuff more demanding than Freecell.

They are great when they first come out but several years
later start getting a bit old which of course is the same with
PC cards etc too but you have the choice of upgrading much
more often if you want to.

Sure, and thats why I did a PVR that way, but the vast bulk of
the market isnt capable of assembling PCs. It really is that basic.

 

[JohnS]

No they dont when those using their PCs for gaming are normally
upgrading them because they need better gaming performance.

Thats very superficial, even if you just consider what gets
spent on the PC that is only for the gaming performance.

Rod what you are arguing for is true but it had nothing to do with the
argument at hand. Yes game mad people who order custom PCs end up
spending $2000-3000 or more and are a tiny fraction vs consoles.
Though I think even most people in this newsgroup think of those
people as morons. Even Toms Hardware had a "Gaming PC
for $750" article and you can get it lower than easily depending on
the level of gaming you want --- not super high res etc.

In fact thats a tiny fraction of PC owners , its a tiny fraction of
PC game players. Thats the whole point. They arent going to talk huge
numbers into buying a custom built gaming PC. The whole point is
theres a vast number of PCs that are marginal --- sempron 2800s with
512 megs and above that can upgrade very easily with a 6600GT or even
lower. My nephew is using a 2800 sempron I upgraded with a 9600 card.
It can run HL2 though at 800x600 but it looks pefectly fine. That was
a bottom of the barrel upgrade for $79 MB+CPU add 9600 for $40 which
replaced a 1600 AMD XP system.

According to one site:
PC game sales in 2004 theres a declining trend 1 .1 bil 2% decline
over 2003.
Console sales in 2004 6 bil - 8% gain over 2003


Small but not "tiny" yet. Worth trying to hang on to? Probably.
The possible attempt to expand a bit or hang on? Target the
zillions of PC owners with systems that are mid, lower end with poor
graphics ? The article makes the point itself ---- there are tons of
lower end PCs being sold to lower costs with built in graphics that
cant run games. Thats all.

Can the industry do a lot more to educate that vast amount of people
who are buying sempron 3100s , 2800s and higher with cruddy graphics?
Sure and try to peel a few off to hang on to the mkt or expand it a
little.

The cutting edge graphics segment in PCs has always been tiny the huge
mkt is as they always say the mid lower end --- 6600gt, 7600gt not the
1900XTs.

Nobody knows if such a mkting attempt is viable or not, but the
things I outlined are obvious. Yes kids do prefer getting a Xbox or
PS3 because of far more word of mouth and general mainstream mkting to
kids. You dont have a 6600GT selling at TOYSRUS and most parents and
teens are clueless about graphics cards.

However perfect examle ---
4 neighbors and a relative , all clueless about PCs and games. None
have bought their kids an Xbox for $399 + accessories way too
expensive. only one had an old Ps2.

However their kids do want to play Quake 4, Doom3 etc . A lot of them
didnt want to buy the older PS2 , xbox etc I told them about various
cards and installed 6600gts , 9600s for $40-120 and they are all
playing games now.


Yes there are tons of people with older consoles already who can buy
these games as they come out if they ever do on the older console
systems or who will pony up $400-500 somehow though I cant see many
parents buying that for their kids. However there are an awful lot of
sempron 2800 and above PCs with lousy built in graphics or a X300 card
who can have a decent gaming experience at least for now with a 6600gt
Im talking about the US where you can get lots of cheap hardware. Im
not exaggerating. $20 for a stick of 3200 AR which I bought a few
months ago. ATI has a refurb clearance sale right now on 800Xls for
$129 I think or lower which I used to have.

In each case the PC was largely a sunk cost, spent already. They had
a DELL or HP with an AGP slot unused they bought for their kids. Once
again the only argument here is --- is it worth trying to save this
"tiny" 800mil-1 bil sales mkt? I think so. Are there a lot of sempron
2800+ and better systems with crappy graphics out there ? Yes. Can the
industry do a better job of trying to peel off a few more of those
clueless types teens and adults to spend another 100-150 to play
games? Probably.

 

[JohnS]

And anyone who is serious about gaming, knows not to
rely on integrated graphics. Integrated graphics have
been around for a few years, so how is this a big
deal now ? I'd say somebody was looking for an excuse
to concentrate on consoles.

Putting a 50W integrated graphics chip in a notebook,
and burning a hole in someone's lap, is not going to
revive gaming.

And I wonder how much Vista and DX10 will contribute
to the move to consoles. Microsoft has interests in both
areas, and has more say in which industry succeeds, than
Intel does. Splitting the potential gaming market into
DX9 users and DX10 users is not helping matters.

Paul

Thats an interesting point. For me though the whole DX10 and Vista
thing is exciting and everyone predicting an uptick in hardware sales.
The hype about the new DX10 cards and games is dazzling like the
videos of Crysis.

Speaking of the game industry theres some interesting points being
made which I havent clue whether they are true or not.

I found a more recent PC sales number 1.4 billion in sales on 2005 for
PC games sales.

http://www.npd.com/dynamic/releases/press_060525.html

And heres another one for May of this year
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152601.html

Weird stuff here at least superficially. New Xbox game sales nosedive
counter to what was predicted. PC game sales up 12%.

Of course that may just reflect game specific sales -- HL2 episode 1
being released and maybe some other hot PC titles.

Theres a lot of talk about the effect of online gaming on with PC game
sales too and online download sales like STEAM etc.

--------------

Currently, the conventional wisdom is that 2006 will see sales of
current-generation games fall as games for next-generation consoles
rise. So why, then, did sales of Xbox 360 games plummet from $75
million in April to $47 million in May? That's one of the questions
raised by the latest report from industry-research group NPD Funworld,
which was released today.

The 360's 180 was one of the main reasons US game sales for May 2006
were only $286 million, 10 percent below May 2005. NPD figures also
fingered weaker-than-expected sales of titles for the PSP, which has
seen its momentum slow in recent months. The report also said that
sales of DS titles were weaker than expected, even though the number
one game for the month was New Super Mario Bros., which generated
nearly $9.5 million in sales all by itself.

Overall, what NPD terms "current-generation" software--Xbox, GameCube,
PlayStation 2, and Game Boy Advance games--slid $96 million to just
$188 million for the month, versus May 2005. "Next-generation"
software--Xbox 360, DS, and PSP games--hauled in a combined $98
million, far below Wedbush Morgan Securties' analyst Michael Pachter's
estimates.

And, according to Pachter, May may only be the beginning. "We think
that this trend foreshadows continuing weak sales until the holidays,
as we expect continued monthly year-over-year declines of 30-40
percent for current-generation software sales, with next-generation
software sales growth failing to offset these declines," he wrote in a
report issued today.

One of the few bright spots in the NPD report came courtesy of the PC.
Sales for the mother of all platforms bucked the downward trend, and
were actually up 12 percent over May 2005. Some $63 million worth of
boxed retail PC games were sold, meaning the figure must've been much
higher, since it doesn't include online sales of games via services
such as Valve's Steam digital distribution network.

Down PC way, NPD pegged NCsoft's Guild Wars expansion, Guild Wars
Factions, as the top tile of the month of May. It was followed by a
pair of RPGs: the still-strong massively multiplayer World of
Warcraft, and the social-life-cripplingly massive The Elder Scrolls
IV: Oblivion. The Sims 2 took fourth, followed by Rise of Nations:
Rise of Legends and The Sims 2 Family Fun Stuff expansion pack. Then
it was Electronic Arts' Sims 2 Open for Business expansion pack and
Microsoft's Age of Empires III. The last spot in the top 10 was
another EA game of a very different sort--Battlefield 2.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote

Bet it wont make any difference.

Bet it wont make any difference.

Thats an interesting point. For me though the whole DX10 and Vista
thing is exciting and everyone predicting an uptick in hardware sales.

The hype about the new DX10 cards and
games is dazzling like the videos of Crysis.

Speaking of the game industry theres some interesting points
being made which I havent clue whether they are true or not.

I found a more recent PC sales number 1.4
billion in sales on 2005 for PC games sales.

And heres another one for May of this year
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152601.html

Weird stuff here at least superficially. New Xbox game sales
nosedive counter to what was predicted. PC game sales up 12%.

Bet its pure fantasy.

Of course that may just reflect game specific sales -- HL2
episode 1 being released and maybe some other hot PC titles.

Theres a lot of talk about the effect of online gaming on with
PC game sales too and online download sales like STEAM etc.

Currently, the conventional wisdom is that 2006 will see sales
of current-generation games fall as games for next-generation
consoles rise. So why, then, did sales of Xbox 360 games
plummet from $75 million in April to $47 million in May?

Irrelevant to total console sales.

That's one of the questions raised by the latest report from
industry-research group NPD Funworld, which was released today.

The 360's 180 was one of the main reasons US game sales for May 2006
were only $286 million, 10 percent below May 2005. NPD figures also
fingered weaker-than-expected sales of titles for the PSP, which has
seen its momentum slow in recent months. The report also said that
sales of DS titles were weaker than expected, even though the number
one game for the month was New Super Mario Bros., which generated
nearly $9.5 million in sales all by itself.

Overall, what NPD terms "current-generation" software--Xbox, GameCube,
PlayStation 2, and Game Boy Advance games--slid $96 million to just
$188 million for the month, versus May 2005. "Next-generation"
software--Xbox 360, DS, and PSP games--hauled in a combined $98
million, far below Wedbush Morgan Securties' analyst Michael Pachter's
estimates.

His estimates are completely irrelevant.

And, according to Pachter, May may only be the beginning. "We think
that this trend foreshadows continuing weak sales until the holidays,
as we expect continued monthly year-over-year declines of 30-40
percent for current-generation software sales, with next-generation
software sales growth failing to offset these declines," he wrote in a
report issued today.

When his record is so pathetic, his expectations are in spades.

One of the few bright spots in the NPD report came courtesy of the PC.
Sales for the mother of all platforms bucked the downward trend, and
were actually up 12 percent over May 2005. Some $63 million worth of
boxed retail PC games were sold,

Whoopy do. You'll have to pardon us if we dont actually cream our jeans.

meaning the figure must've been much higher, since it doesn't include online
sales of games via services such as Valve's Steam digital distribution network.

Down PC way, NPD pegged NCsoft's Guild Wars expansion, Guild Wars
Factions, as the top tile of the month of May. It was followed by a
pair of RPGs: the still-strong massively multiplayer World of
Warcraft, and the social-life-cripplingly massive The Elder Scrolls
IV: Oblivion. The Sims 2 took fourth, followed by Rise of Nations:
Rise of Legends and The Sims 2 Family Fun Stuff expansion pack. Then
it was Electronic Arts' Sims 2 Open for Business expansion pack and
Microsoft's Age of Empires III. The last spot in the top 10 was
another EA game of a very different sort--Battlefield 2.

Yawn.

 

[JohnS]

its possible but that the consoles might eventually beat out pc's but
im not sure how probable it is.

http://grispernmix.googlepages.com/home

http://grispernmix.googlepages.com/home

In terms of gaming experience I prefer the PC though Ive never owned a
console cause I dont like being locked into a console for years at a
time. With PCs I can sell my old graphics card and there are new
things coming out all the time. In fact you know in 6 months prices
are going to decline and something better is going to come out.

One angle though which is valid and worrisome probably is the boom in
notebook sales. Thats showing the most growth Ive read PC sales though
huge is a relatively slow growth mkt overall I think or thats what I
keep reading. Notebooks obviously you cant upgrade the graphics easily
in fact I think you can only do it on some of the mid, upper models
none of the low end models but Im not sure. So it does represent a
huge cost. You have to buy a whole new notebook.

However Ive seen even notebook prices fall a lot. Some people asked
about a gaming notebook and I thought Alienware or something around
$2000-3000. Nope. I was surprised to see very good spec Dells a little
while ago for 800-1200. This was with a widescreen, decent CPU and
either a 7600 or 7900 I think card. It was a really nice notebook but
as people pointed out probably weighed a ton for all around school
use. You wouldnt want to lug that around all day.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

Rod what you are arguing for is true but it
had nothing to do with the argument at hand.

Fraid so.

Yes game mad people who order custom PCs end up spending
$2000-3000 or more and are a tiny fraction vs consoles. Though I
think even most people in this newsgroup think of those people as morons.

Most people in this newsgroup are completely irrelevant to
what happens in the real world of the gaming machine market.

Even Toms Hardware had a "Gaming PC for $750" article

Pity that is STILL a lot more than a console.

and you can get it lower than easily depending on the
level of gaming you want --- not super high res etc.

Pity so few using them are capable of assembling any PC.

In fact thats a tiny fraction of PC owners , its a tiny
fraction of PC game players. Thats the whole point.

Nope, the whole point is actually how many are even
capable of assembling their own PC gaming machine.

They arent going to talk huge numbers into buying a custom built gaming PC.

Still a lot more than a console.

The whole point is theres a vast number of PCs that are
marginal --- sempron 2800s with 512 megs and above that
can upgrade very easily with a 6600GT or even lower.

Bugger all that are capable of assembline a PC
gaming machine would bother with a sempron.

My nephew is using a 2800 sempron I upgraded with a 9600 card.

And he didnt do that himself, did he ?

It can run HL2 though at 800x600 but it looks pefectly fine.
That was a bottom of the barrel upgrade for $79 MB+CPU
add 9600 for $40 which replaced a 1600 AMD XP system.

And bugger all who want a gaming machine can even assemble
a PC, let alone be able to work out that low cost route.

THATS what matters with the gaming machine market.

According to one site:
PC game sales in 2004 theres a declining
trend 1 .1 bil 2% decline over 2003.
Console sales in 2004 6 bil - 8% gain over 2003

Which might just explain why Intel doesnt
worry too much about gaming performance.

And 2003 is two and half years ago now.

Small but not "tiny" yet.
Yet.

Worth trying to hang on to? Probably.

Taint gunna happen, you watch. Intel has noticed already.

The possible attempt to expand a bit or hang on?

Not a chance. You watch. The world's moved on. Even MS has noticed.

Target the zillions of PC owners with systems
that are mid, lower end with poor graphics ?

Bugger all of those give a damn about games any more demanding that FreeCell.

The article makes the point itself ---- there are tons of lower end PCs
being sold to lower costs with built in graphics that cant run games.

Because that's what the purchasers care about, they dont give a
damn about games any more demanding of the PC than FreeCell.

Thats all.

Mein missed the point completely.

Can the industry do a lot more to educate that vast amount of people
who are buying sempron 3100s , 2800s and higher with cruddy graphics?

Nope, the world's moved on forever now.

Sure and try to peel a few off to hang on to the mkt or expand it a little.

Fraid not. About as useful as pissing into the wind.

Even Intel and MS have noticed.

The cutting edge graphics segment in PCs has always
been tiny the huge mkt is as they always say the mid
lower end --- 6600gt, 7600gt not the 1900XTs.

It aint a huge market, its a tiny market in the total of games systems sold.

Nobody knows if such a mkting attempt is viable or not,

Anyone with a clue does. Even Intel and MS have worked it out.

but the things I outlined are obvious. Yes kids do
prefer getting a Xbox or PS3 because of far more
word of mouth and general mainstream mkting to kids.

And nothing the industry does is ever gunna change that.

You dont have a 6600GT selling at TOYSRUS and most
parents and teens are clueless about graphics cards.

And nothing the industry does is ever gunna change that.

However perfect examle ---
4 neighbors and a relative , all clueless about PCs and games.
None have bought their kids an Xbox for $399 + accessories
way too expensive. only one had an old Ps2.

However their kids do want to play Quake 4, Doom3 etc .
A lot of them didnt want to buy the older PS2 , xbox etc
I told them about various cards and installed 6600gts ,
9600s for $40-120 and they are all playing games now.

And even you should have noticed that those 5 are
a microscopic subset of the total gaming market.

Yes there are tons of people with older consoles already who
can buy these games as they come out if they ever do on the
older console systems or who will pony up $400-500 somehow
though I cant see many parents buying that for their kids.

They do anyway. You watch.

However there are an awful lot of sempron 2800 and above
PCs with lousy built in graphics or a X300 card who can have
a decent gaming experience at least for now with a 6600gt

And no matter how furiously you beat that
drum, you might see 20 or so going that route.

I dont see the industry suits pouring from
their windows like lemmings any time soon.

Im talking about the US where you can get lots of cheap hardware.
Im not exaggerating. $20 for a stick of 3200 AR which I bought a
few months ago. ATI has a refurb clearance sale right now on
800Xls for $129 I think or lower which I used to have.

Still a fart in the bath in the total gaming market.

In each case the PC was largely a sunk cost, spent already.
They had a DELL or HP with an AGP slot unused they bought
for their kids. Once again the only argument here is --- is it
worth trying to save this "tiny" 800mil-1 bil sales mkt?

Its nothing like that. Because only a tiny subset of that market
are even capable of adding a graphics card to their PCs, let alone
working out which one is good value that will work in their PC.

I think so. Are there a lot of sempron 2800+ and
better systems with crappy graphics out there ? Yes.

Because bugger all use them for anything more demanding than FreeCell.

Can the industry do a better job of trying to peel off a few more of those
clueless types teens and adults to spend another 100-150 to play games?
Nope.

Probably.

Fraid not, and why should they bother anyway ?

 

[visions of effty]

(snip for brevity)

In each case the PC was largely a sunk cost, spent already. They had
a DELL or HP with an AGP slot unused they bought for their kids. Once
again the only argument here is --- is it worth trying to save this
"tiny" 800mil-1 bil sales mkt? I think so. Are there a lot of sempron
2800+ and better systems with crappy graphics out there ? Yes. Can the
industry do a better job of trying to peel off a few more of those
clueless types teens and adults to spend another 100-150 to play
games? Probably.

Interesting article. Interesting comments.

I think it comes down to a lack of benchmark standards for the PC. There
are an infinite variety of configurations when you're talking about the
broad category of PC. Every console is identical, but every PC is slightly
different.

It's obvious to see which platform is easier to program for, and easier to
market for.

Gaming is not the driving force for the PC. Historically, the driving force
for PC development is business! Now it's shifting toward multi-media and
video. You see these "media-center" PCs and such. That's a good trend for
game developers in that it generally ups the specs of PCs on the video
front.

I wouldn't blame Intel, but I would like to see better on-board graphics
chips become standard. I agree with that basic premise. It would indeed
simplify things.

I think you're right on one point. If people want to continue to develop
and sell PC games, it's their responsibility to educate consumers on how to
get the most from their PCs. By contrast, marketing games for consoles is a
breeze. If you really think about it though that's the way it's always
been. Essentially the author of the article is critcizing Intel for not
helping to push the PC industry in a *new* direction.

~e.

 

[Rod Speed]

(snip for brevity)


Interesting article. Interesting comments.

I think it comes down to a lack of benchmark standards for the PC. There are an infinite
variety of configurations when you're talking
about the broad category of PC. Every console is identical, but
every PC is slightly different.

It's obvious to see which platform is easier to program for, and
easier to market for.

Gaming is not the driving force for the PC. Historically, the
driving force for PC development is business! Now it's shifting
toward multi-media and video. You see these "media-center" PCs and
such. That's a good trend for game developers in that it generally
ups the specs of PCs on the video front.

I wouldn't blame Intel, but I would like to see better on-board
graphics chips become standard. I agree with that basic premise. It
would indeed simplify things.

I think you're right on one point. If people want to continue to
develop and sell PC games, it's their responsibility to educate
consumers on how to get the most from their PCs. By contrast,
marketing games for consoles is a breeze. If you really think about
it though that's the way it's always been. Essentially the author of
the article is critcizing Intel for not helping to push the PC
industry in a *new* direction.

I cant see that the PC platform will ever be able to compete
with consoles and that both MS and Intel have noticed.

The only operations that will ever be able to make the PC
viable for games is the video card manufacturers, and they
have done a reasonable job of providing video cards for those
who do want to play the more demanding games on their PCs
and Intel has certainly ensured that high performance video
cards are easy to do for the PC too, most obviously with PCIe etc.