Why is Microsoft so against White Boxes

[Saucy]

Microsoft arranged to use the power of a totalitarian regime to force
computer makers to pre-install operating systems on computers sold.

So I suppose now there are people rotting in some Chinese prisons, basically
because they sold computers w/o Windows (although some might point to Linux,
it was Microsoft - not the Linux crowd - that encouraged this "law").

For some reason I find this reprehensible and I'm not sure why.

I can understand people getting a slap for pirating a copy of Windows, but
not for selling a PC without it.

... Anyway..

I guess we all can agree it's amazing what can be achieved for software when
one ha$ an oppressive regime in one'$ pocket. Even more amazing is the
stink. So much for "intellectual" "copyright" on "freedom of speech".

 

[Gary Mount]

I hear that they also force house builders to include windows (and doors).

 

[Saucy]

So you are saying copyright law shouldn't apply to Microsoft Windows .. that
it is a hardware not a copyrightable work?

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Call Samaritans..

 

[will]

I've been custom building pc's for at least 20 years and I always let the
customer choose which OS they want.

Dell advertises that they build pc's to the customers needs I wonder how
true that would be if someone asked for a pc to be built with linux
installed.

 

[Saucy]

Are you contemptuous about others' rights generally? Or just a racist?

 

[Gary Mount]

The Chinese government just tells Microsoft that they will put them in jail,
they actually don't do so.

 

[Richard Urban]

Rights end at a certain point, do they not? It is up to the courts to decide
when that point has been crossed.

As a white box builder I can supply any operating the customer asks for, as
long as he/she pays for it. Sooo, what's your beef?

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Saucy]

The beef is this.

If a person buys a computer, they should decide what does go on it, not go
on it, might go on it. It's up to the computer to decide if software (if
any) is to be run. Computers are just that: computers .. reprogrammable
computation machines. Software is "speech" or "freedom of expression" and
copyrightable. It's a violation of free speech, in a sense, to force a
computer owner to sing a certain tune. Microsoft shouldn't be paying
governments to force their or any other software onto computers.

I get the impression that people don't care about this violation because it
is happening 'over there' to 'chinese people'? Maybe it's just an
impression.

Anyway, Microsoft is getting away with paying a totalitarian government to
throw oppressed people into prisons if they refuse to install Windows (or
some linux distro) on the computers they sell. I thought all this business
with China was supposed to increase freedom and rights there, not to force
on the people.

I don't like it.

 

[Jon Davis]

It's not that they're against white boxes, it's that boxes that are black or
yellow encourage diversity, making Microsoft politically correct, so those
boxes are preferred, to the extent of absolution.

Jon

 

[Saucy]

Hardy har har Microsoft's implementation of affirmative action, eh?

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

If the average person on the street were to buy a computer without anything
installed, they wouldn't have the first clue what to do next.. neither would
they particularly want to pay full price for an OS that they then have to
install themselves, look for hardware drivers etc..

Computers are supplied ready to go, and most are grateful for that.. OEM
pre-installed software is as much as given away free making it an even
better deal..

There is no law in place that says a computer buyer can't replace whatever
is installed with something else.. so which of the 100 or so versions of
Linux would you suggest to a prospective customer, and can they buy it at
the same time as they get the white box?

Oh yes, of course, they can download Linux, can't they.. not on a white box
devoid of any OS, they can't.. most buyers just want a computer to work with
whatever software of choice.. if it comes with Windows, so be it..

I still think that you should call Samaritans..

 

[Saucy]

You are missing the point though. This is not about a nicety or customer
convenience. Microsoft paid off the totalitarian government there to throw
anyone in jail who sells a new computer without Windows on it (or some
'other' operating system).

I think you need to read a bill of rights.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

I don't think that the Chinese Gov't need much coersion at all to throw
anybody into a jail..

 

[Saucy]

Yeah, what's a few a few hundred million out of their billions and they can
get the Chinese gov to throw anyone they want into jail ..

... it's an interesting state of justice often referred to [by some] as
"oppression".

 

[Nina DiBoy]

I've been custom building pc's for at least 20 years and I always let the
customer choose which OS they want.

Dell advertises that they build pc's to the customers needs I wonder how
true that would be if someone asked for a pc to be built with linux
installed.

Dell does offer machines with Linux on them, Fedore Core (that's what I
bought my Dell server with) On the desktops they offer the "Open Source
model" which runs freedos.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

You definitely need to call Samaritans

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

Yeah, what's a few a few hundred million out of their billions and they
can
get the Chinese gov to throw anyone they want into jail ..

.. it's an interesting state of justice often referred to [by some] as
"oppression".

 

[Nina DiBoy]

If the average person on the street were to buy a computer without anything
installed, they wouldn't have the first clue what to do next.. neither would
they particularly want to pay full price for an OS that they then have to
install themselves, look for hardware drivers etc..

Computers are supplied ready to go, and most are grateful for that.. OEM
pre-installed software is as much as given away free making it an even
better deal..

That is incorrect, the OS is not free as sold preinstalled from an OEM
Vendor:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/110706-dell-windows.html

There is no law in place that says a computer buyer can't replace whatever
is installed with something else.. so which of the 100 or so versions of
Linux would you suggest to a prospective customer, and can they buy it at
the same time as they get the white box?

But why have to pay for whatever comes on the machine? In the link
above, the person saves themselves over $100 by not paying for the
prebundled windows.

 

[Saucy]

You decidely need a human rights refresh.

Saucy

You definitely need to call Samaritans

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

Yeah, what's a few a few hundred million out of their billions and
they can
get the Chinese gov to throw anyone they want into jail ..

.. it's an interesting state of justice often referred to [by some]
as "oppression".


Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
I don't think that the Chinese Gov't need much coersion at all to
throw anybody into a jail..

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



You are missing the point though. This is not about a nicety or
customer convenience. Microsoft paid off the totalitarian
government there to throw anyone in jail who sells a new computer
without Windows on it (or some 'other' operating system).

I think you need to read a bill of rights.

Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
If the average person on the street were to buy a computer
without anything installed, they wouldn't have the first clue
what to do next.. neither would they particularly want to pay
full price for an OS that they then have to install
themselves, look for hardware drivers etc..

Computers are supplied ready to go, and most are grateful for
that.. OEM pre-installed software is as much as given away free
making it an even better deal..

There is no law in place that says a computer buyer can't
replace whatever is installed with something else.. so which
of the 100 or so versions of Linux would you suggest to a
prospective customer, and can they buy it at the same time as
they get the white box?

Oh yes, of course, they can download Linux, can't they.. not
on a white box devoid of any OS, they can't.. most buyers just
want a computer to work with whatever software of choice.. if
it comes with Windows, so be it..

I still think that you should call Samaritans..

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



message The beef is this.

If a person buys a computer, they should decide what does go
on it, not go on it, might go on it. It's up to the computer
to decide if software (if any) is to be run. Computers are
just that: computers .. reprogrammable computation machines.
Software is "speech" or "freedom of expression" and
copyrightable. It's a violation of free speech, in a sense,
to force a computer owner to sing a certain tune. Microsoft
shouldn't be paying governments to force their or any other
software onto computers.

I get the impression that people don't care about this
violation because it
is happening 'over there' to 'chinese people'? Maybe it's
just an impression.

Anyway, Microsoft is getting away with paying a totalitarian
government to throw oppressed people into prisons if they
refuse to install Windows (or some linux distro) on the
computers they sell. I thought all this business with China
was supposed to increase freedom and rights there, not to
force on the people.

I don't like it.


Richard Urban wrote:
Rights end at a certain point, do they not? It is up to the
courts to decide when that point has been crossed.

As a white box builder I can supply any operating the
customer asks for, as long as he/she pays for it. Sooo,
what's your beef?

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you
knew!

message Are you contemptuous about others' rights generally? Or
just a racist?

Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
Call Samaritans..

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



in message
Microsoft arranged to use the power of a totalitarian
regime to force computer makers to pre-install operating
systems on computers sold.

So I suppose now there are people rotting in some
Chinese prisons, basically
because they sold computers w/o Windows (although some
might point to Linux,
it was Microsoft - not the Linux crowd - that encouraged
this "law").

For some reason I find this reprehensible and I'm not
sure why.

I can understand people getting a slap for pirating a
copy of Windows, but not for selling a PC without it.

.. Anyway..

I guess we all can agree it's amazing what can be
achieved for software when
one ha$ an oppressive regime in one'$ pocket. Even more
amazing is the stink. So much for "intellectual"
"copyright" on "freedom of speech".

 

[Guest]

I'm agreeing with the Samaritians option personally!

You decidely need a human rights refresh.

Saucy

You definitely need to call Samaritans

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



Yeah, what's a few a few hundred million out of their billions and
they can
get the Chinese gov to throw anyone they want into jail ..

.. it's an interesting state of justice often referred to [by some]
as "oppression".


Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
I don't think that the Chinese Gov't need much coersion at all to
throw anybody into a jail..

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



You are missing the point though. This is not about a nicety or
customer convenience. Microsoft paid off the totalitarian
government there to throw anyone in jail who sells a new computer
without Windows on it (or some 'other' operating system).

I think you need to read a bill of rights.

Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
If the average person on the street were to buy a computer
without anything installed, they wouldn't have the first clue
what to do next.. neither would they particularly want to pay
full price for an OS that they then have to install
themselves, look for hardware drivers etc..

Computers are supplied ready to go, and most are grateful for
that.. OEM pre-installed software is as much as given away free
making it an even better deal..

There is no law in place that says a computer buyer can't
replace whatever is installed with something else.. so which
of the 100 or so versions of Linux would you suggest to a
prospective customer, and can they buy it at the same time as
they get the white box?

Oh yes, of course, they can download Linux, can't they.. not
on a white box devoid of any OS, they can't.. most buyers just
want a computer to work with whatever software of choice.. if
it comes with Windows, so be it..

I still think that you should call Samaritans..

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



message The beef is this.

If a person buys a computer, they should decide what does go
on it, not go on it, might go on it. It's up to the computer
to decide if software (if any) is to be run. Computers are
just that: computers .. reprogrammable computation machines.
Software is "speech" or "freedom of expression" and
copyrightable. It's a violation of free speech, in a sense,
to force a computer owner to sing a certain tune. Microsoft
shouldn't be paying governments to force their or any other
software onto computers.

I get the impression that people don't care about this
violation because it
is happening 'over there' to 'chinese people'? Maybe it's
just an impression.

Anyway, Microsoft is getting away with paying a totalitarian
government to throw oppressed people into prisons if they
refuse to install Windows (or some linux distro) on the
computers they sell. I thought all this business with China
was supposed to increase freedom and rights there, not to
force on the people.

I don't like it.


Richard Urban wrote:
Rights end at a certain point, do they not? It is up to the
courts to decide when that point has been crossed.

As a white box builder I can supply any operating the
customer asks for, as long as he/she pays for it. Sooo,
what's your beef?

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you
knew!

message Are you contemptuous about others' rights generally? Or
just a racist?

Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
Call Samaritans..

--
Mike Hall
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User



in message
Microsoft arranged to use the power of a totalitarian
regime to force computer makers to pre-install operating
systems on computers sold.

So I suppose now there are people rotting in some
Chinese prisons, basically
because they sold computers w/o Windows (although some
might point to Linux,
it was Microsoft - not the Linux crowd - that encouraged
this "law").

For some reason I find this reprehensible and I'm not
sure why.

I can understand people getting a slap for pirating a
copy of Windows, but not for selling a PC without it.

.. Anyway..

I guess we all can agree it's amazing what can be
achieved for software when
one ha$ an oppressive regime in one'$ pocket. Even more
amazing is the stink. So much for "intellectual"
"copyright" on "freedom of speech".