Why is it legal...

[Strontium]

-
bbunny stood up at show-n-tell, in (e-mail address removed),
and said:

Well I cannot get Mavis Beacon teaches typing to install without
installing all of the AOL, etc crapola. This is a handy program
for the newcomers to typing. I have searched the retailers for
a comparable program and can find none. Most if not all of
Broderbund software is set up to install in this manner. This
may be legal, but I don't think that it is right.

I took typing 101, in Junior High (1984). I took it, from there. 100 wpm,
no errors. Show me the keys, shove your software up your ass

 

[Tim]

What version?

I have owned every version up to version 11 in use with my friends who wanna
learn to type. During installation of v11... they wanted to install AOL. It
ASKED me if I wanted to install it, I said no.

They do not force you to install AOL.

Also, they may install an icon on your desktop to "Install AOL" or "Try AOL for
Free" icons, but those are NOT AOL PROGRAMS, only links to install the software.
They are safe to delete.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

That's "Windows Messenger," not "MSN Messenger."

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH

 

[Mark & Donna Corbelli]

Bruce:

I built this machine myself and clean installed xp over a formatted HD. MSN
instant messenger appeared that first day. If it wasn't on the xp install
disc, then it was on the disks that I loaded my software from. I'm no
novice. This type of activity should be stopped, or at least made more overt
rather than hiding it fifteen paragraphs into the user agreement.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

If you're claiming to be an experienced user, and admitting that
you installed the application yourself, from your own disks, why are
you complaining about Microsoft forcing it upon you? Who from
Microsoft stood behind you, put a gun to your head, and prevented you
from performing a custom installation? You're being very inconsistent
here.

And, to be brutally frank, the nature of this and other questions
you've posted - unless someone is maliciously spoofing your headers,
led me to conclude that you've only very recently (within the last few
days, at most) started using a computer and connecting to the
Internet.


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH

 

[Mark & Donna Corbelli]

I won't type what I'm thinking because I am a gentleman. You are not in
touch with reality, sir.

 

[Tim]

As you said, in your opinion. You are entitled to that, of course, but as you
are apparently finding out, your opinion means nothing in the eyes of software
developers.

You installed MSN Messenger... you had to accept a license agreement prior to
installing it. You agreed to their terms and conditions of the installation.
You're stuck with your own decision. If you don't like it, uninstall it. Plain
and simple.

And guess what? TV is NO DIFFERENT.... it's calld Advertisement...
Commercials....... however you put it, it is there to help someone make a little
more money. You can change to another channel when watching tv.... so in your
computer case, DELETE THE ICONS to the links you don't want. HOW HARD is
that?!?

 

[Mark & Donna Corbelli]

Fair enough...I just uninstalled MSN messenger. We'll see how that goes. But
when you try to uninstall windows messenger it says that it will adversely
effect other programs that need it. Will it or not? Do I need it? Is it
instant messaging BS or some other important program that I really do need?

That really is the crux of my argument. Sure I can read every page of the
user agreement. If I don't want the extra stuff, I can click "do not agree",
but then I can't load the program. When installing I can also do a "custom"
install. But what can I afford to do without. I may find that I didn't
install something I needed to make the program work for me. I've had
experiences where I did a custom install, deselected some items and the
program didn't work. Then when re-installing, I've then been prompted to
uninstall the program first. While uninstalling, I've been prompted that
"certain files or folders couldn't be removed". Then upon reinstalling and
choosing the normal default installation, I've found that the software
wouldn't run properly. Now, I just click "typical" install to be safe, and
end up with all the crap.

You shouldn't have to be a Microsoft engineer to navigate through all this.
And... I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.

 

[David Candy]

It won't affect.

 

[Tim]

Fair enough...I just uninstalled MSN messenger. We'll see how that goes. But

when you try to uninstall windows messenger it says that it will adversely
effect other programs that need it. Will it or not? Do I need it? Is it
instant messaging BS or some other important program that I really do need?

I always uninstall Windows Messenger when I install Windows XP. First thing, I
go to Add/Remove Programs, and go to the "Add/Remove Windows Components" and
scroll to the bottom, unselecting Windows Messenger. But, I never get a message
saying it will affect other programs. It is your default Internet Messaging
program when you install WinXP. By that, I mean it's integrated with your
system, but is still removeable. It works with Outlook Express and displays
your contacts in Outlook Express when they are online... a nice feature to
quickly send someone an email or instant message.

That really is the crux of my argument. Sure I can read every page of the
user agreement. If I don't want the extra stuff, I can click "do not agree",
but then I can't load the program. When installing I can also do a "custom"
install. But what can I afford to do without. I may find that I didn't
install something I needed to make the program work for me. I've had
experiences where I did a custom install, deselected some items and the
program didn't work. Then when re-installing, I've then been prompted to
uninstall the program first. While uninstalling, I've been prompted that
"certain files or folders couldn't be removed". Then upon reinstalling and
choosing the normal default installation, I've found that the software
wouldn't run properly. Now, I just click "typical" install to be safe, and
end up with all the crap.

I do the same thing. No matter what I install, if there is a Customer or
"Advanced" installation setup, I'll choose it and look thru the list and see
what's required and what's not. Generally, if it's required, you cannot
unselected it from the setup, so you shouldn't have to worry there.

You shouldn't have to be a Microsoft engineer to navigate through all this.
And... I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.

I'm not one of their "engineers" as you put it, however I've been working with
Windows operating systems ever since Windows 3.0 debuted on the market....
needless to say it's been a long time. I rather pride myself in what I know, and
so do my friends. I have people calling me at 5:00 in the morning just desperate
and need my help. They are always amazed at how I can tell them where to go and
what they should be seeing, even if I am not in front of my computer at the
moment to tell them what they should be seeing.

But anyway, it's something in life we have to deal with. If we don't like what
an End User License Agreement says, we have the option to install it or not to
install it. Of course, if we don't agree to the EULA, we must suffer without
the program and find other means to do what we want to do. But sad thing is,
probably 99% of software out there has an EULA with it and almost certainly has
a portion we don't like.

For example, I do lots of Video Capturing and Editing on my computer. I usually
capture in a rather bulk AVI format (approx 4gigs for one hour of video), and
save my final video's in DivX format. DivX 5 has nice features, and DivX 5 Pro
has more features I like. But, the Pro you must pay for, or install an
ad-supported version. I tried the ad-supported one once and uninstalled it. It
used Gator software which I did not like. So, I am dealing without the extra
features of the Pro version and have installed the prior version without a Pro
label. Oh well, I'll live.

 

[Cookie]

I'm not sure what version of XP you are using. Perhaps it's slipstreamed
SP1 version? Every pre-SP1 version I've installed, automatically installed
MSN Messenger.

XP build 2600, SP1.020828-1920

--
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*--------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------*
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| (e-mail address removed) |
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*---------------------------*

 

[David]

Greetings --

If you're claiming to be an experienced user, and admitting that
you installed the application yourself, from your own disks, why are
you complaining about Microsoft forcing it upon you? Who from
Microsoft stood behind you, put a gun to your head, and prevented you
from performing a custom installation? You're being very inconsistent
here.

And, to be brutally frank, the nature of this and other questions
you've posted - unless someone is maliciously spoofing your headers,
led me to conclude that you've only very recently (within the last few
days, at most) started using a computer and connecting to the
Internet.

Ok, What about Microsoft Movie Maker? I had no choice in it's
installation. I haven't found a way to remove it. And, even if I did, I
shou8ldn't have to jump thru hoops to remove something that shouldn't
have been installed in the first place. I use XP Pro. The vesion designed
primarily for businesses. Most, if not all, businesses have no need for
Movie Maker. If they do video editting at all. They's use professional
programs. So, Why is it on **MY** machine.

And then there's the Windows Tour. Ok, I watched it and got the shirt.
I don't need it anymore. Why can't I get rid od it? Why can't I choose to
not install it next time I need to re-install? These apps are wasting
space on my harddrive ( and, Please don't try the Harddrives are cheap,
get a bigger one ploy ).

This is my computer. I paid fo it. I should have complete control as to
what is installed on it. I should not have to dig thruogh a bunch of
legaleze to make sure something I don't want or never even heard of, is
not installed.

David

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

How did the thread segue from a discussion of spyware and adware
to the features well-known to have been built into the operating
system?

These were both well-publicized (I remember the television
commercials and the demonstrations at the launch events) features of
WinXP, and were even used as selling points to attract new customers.
They certainly weren't buried behind a "bunch of legaleze." If you
didn't want an operating system with such features, why did you buy
one? If you begrudge the little bit of hard drive space that such
things consume, remove them. Or are you going to claim that Microsoft
has disabled your Delete key, now?


Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH

 

[David]

Greetings --

How did the thread segue from a discussion of spyware and adware
to the features well-known to have been built into the operating
system?

Subjects morph. It's human nature.

These were both well-publicized (I remember the television
commercials and the demonstrations at the launch events) features of
WinXP, and were even used as selling points to attract new customers.
They certainly weren't buried behind a "bunch of legaleze." If you
didn't want an operating system with such features, why did you buy
one? If you begrudge the little bit of hard drive space that such
things consume, remove them. Or are you going to claim that Microsoft
has disabled your Delete key, now?

I'm not sure about you, Bruce. But, I bought XP for it's stability
and security features, not the glitz. The XP Beta was far more stable
then my Win98. Which really impressed me.

As for features such as Movie Maker, Windows Messanger, and the Tour
being being well publicized selling features, What has that got to do
with anything?? They should still be options that can be installed IF
people want them and left off for those that don't. They serve no OS
function and should not be an actaul part of the OS. Excel and Word would
be better choices then Movie Maker. At least, people expect that kind of
functionality in thier OS ( As evidenced by the numerous post in these
groups ). Yet, MS doesn't include them. Why? Because they can make money
on Excel and Word and no they won't make any money on Movie Maker. Part
of the $300 for the Pro vesion of XP is probably for R&D for the making
Movie Maker.

And, As to "Begrudging the little bit of Hard Drive Space" You're
damn right! I paid for that space. It's mine. Not Microsofts. I don't
care if I had Terabytes of free space and things like MM only took a few
megs. Those are MY Megs. I should be the one that decides how they are
used.

David