Why always too much magenta on Epson prints?

[Alan Walker]

I've had 3 Epson photo printers [currently an 890] which have
all produced prints with too much magenta [possibly also red]. This
happens whether using an icc profile with print management off or
using print management and any one of the built-in options like
photo-enhance or ICM. Different papers and ink make little difference.
The only way to control it is by selecting colour controls and turning
down magenta by anything up to -20. Sometimes adding 4 or 5 points of
cyan also helps.

Am I doing something wrong? I think other people have
mentioned similar problems on this NG, some with non-Epson printers.
Is there a better solution? I think there ought to be - I wish someone
would tell me what it is because I can't figure it out.

Using PhotoShop 5.5 I calibrate the monitor with Adobe Gamma
and use Adobe RGB98 as working space and "Space" when it comes to
print.

TIA, Alan.

 

[NSN]

I've had 3 Epson photo printers [currently an 890] which have
all produced prints with too much magenta [possibly also red]. This
happens whether using an icc profile with print management off or
using print management and any one of the built-in options like
photo-enhance or ICM. Different papers and ink make little difference.
The only way to control it is by selecting colour controls and turning
down magenta by anything up to -20. Sometimes adding 4 or 5 points of
cyan also helps.

Am I doing something wrong? I think other people have
mentioned similar problems on this NG, some with non-Epson printers.
Is there a better solution? I think there ought to be - I wish someone
would tell me what it is because I can't figure it out.

Using PhotoShop 5.5 I calibrate the monitor with Adobe Gamma
and use Adobe RGB98 as working space and "Space" when it comes to
print.

TIA, Alan.

Alan:

Excellent question. Same here!!

Norm

 

[Robert Feinman]

I've had 3 Epson photo printers [currently an 890] which have
all produced prints with too much magenta [possibly also red]. This
happens whether using an icc profile with print management off or
using print management and any one of the built-in options like
photo-enhance or ICM. Different papers and ink make little difference.
The only way to control it is by selecting colour controls and turning
down magenta by anything up to -20. Sometimes adding 4 or 5 points of
cyan also helps.

Am I doing something wrong? I think other people have
mentioned similar problems on this NG, some with non-Epson printers.
Is there a better solution? I think there ought to be - I wish someone
would tell me what it is because I can't figure it out.

Using PhotoShop 5.5 I calibrate the monitor with Adobe Gamma
and use Adobe RGB98 as working space and "Space" when it comes to
print.

TIA, Alan.

Alan:

Excellent question. Same here!!

Norm

Early versions of Photoshop don't do a very good job of color
management. If you have a profile for the exact set of inks and
paper you are using you can try to view image using the view with
profile setting and adjust the colors on screen to produce what you
wish. Then print with color management off on the printer.
I have a discussion about this on my web site you may find useful.
Follow the tips link on the home page.

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:10:13 GMT, Alan Walker wrote:

=> Using PhotoShop 5.5 I calibrate the monitor with Adobe Gamma
=>and use Adobe RGB98 as working space and "Space" when it comes to
=>print.
=>
=> TIA, Alan.

You're using RGB to calibrate the monitor, but a printer
uses CMYK (cyan, magenta, yellow, black). IMO it may be
simplest to tweak the printer's settings, assuming the
drivers permit changing the CMYK ratios. You could also try
calibrating the monitor with CMYK rather than RGB. IOW,
there is an obvious mismatch between monitor and printer.
The rest of my comments may shed light on why this may be
so, and may justify my advice that you should experiment to
get the results you want.

I suspect that your monitor is the problem. Keep in mind
that a) the colour space of the monitor is not the same as
the colour space of the printer, which means that the
software must translate the one into the other; and b) a
monitor requires calibration because the colours it
displays are "wrong". After all, why calibrate a monitor?
So that the image's colours "look right", and you can
correct colour casts in the original image. However, if the
calibration has to overcompensate one of the colours
because of some subtle defect in the monitor itself, then
the information in the "corrected" image will be distorted
accordingly - it will have too much of one colour in it.
And that's the information that is sent to the printer.

Also, the way your eyes see colour may be part of the
problem. (I assume you aren't colour blind in any way?) Two
colours that differ in their combination of wavelengths may
look identical to our eyes (we can't even distinguish
between mixed and pure colours, actually). Since phosphors
(or LEDs) and inks differ in subtle and not so subtle ways
in how they mix colours (wavelengths), what looks fine in
one medium may therefore look not so fine in the other. The
software doesn't know this - it just takes the numbers that
define the screen colours and translates them into numbers
that define the ink colours.

I discuss these issues with a local printer from time to
time (I published a small hobby rag some decades ago, and
discovered an interest in printing technology that I've
kept up since), and it's clear that calibration software
can reduce the problems of printing in colour, but it can't
eliminate the need for the human expertise and judgement.
IOW, my friend, I'm afraid you'll have to experiment to
find the best combination of settings for your hardware
setup - and when you get a new printer or monitor, you'll
have to do it all over again. I'm also afraid that in the
worst case you may have to replace the monitor - that it's
simply too far off typical specs (which are what the
calibration software has to assume, else it can't work at
all.)

Finally, there's the issue of ink and paper. I can assure
you that this is the most difficult part of the whole
process. Even if the software's colour space and the
printer's colour space are perfectly matched (and that's
what you have done, if I read you correctly), if you change
the paper, and/or the ink, all bets are off. Even if you
use different textures or weights of what is supposed to be
the same paper, colours can shift in unexpected ways, as my
printer friend showed me.

All things considered, it's quite amazing that we can print
good-looking colour images at all.

HTH&GL

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:04:33 GMT, Alan Walker wrote:

=>Wolf,
=>
=>Thanks for this - very interesting and helpful. I'm not convinced
=>it's the monitor - I've had the same problem with other monitors.
=>
=>Ink and paper make some difference - matte heavyweight is the worst -
=>but not that much and it's always too much magenta. Even from images
=>from digital cameras or scanned negatives or slides.
=>
=>As for my eyes - well, they're not what they were but everyone else
=>thinks there's too much magenta if it's not corrected.
=>
=>Looks like you're right that I'll just have to experiment - but it
=>leaves me still wondering where the problem really comes from.
=>
=>Cheers, Alan.

Yeah, me too. The more I read this NG, the more puzzles I
see. My notes were designed to point towards possible
sources of the problem(s), there's no way I could diagnose
what actually is going on, if I didn't make that explicit,
I apologise. FWIW, I've found that just changing paper
brands (eg, Weyerhauser to Georgia Pacific to Xerox
"multi-use" papers) changes the colour cast of the
print-out. Bah!

It may be that it's that specific printer + ink
combination, too. That is, the driver may just not balance
the inks properly. Do other Epson models cause the same
problem?