Who Owns the Content?

[Paul Fenton]

For those of you out there who get paid to develop web sites, I'd like
some opinions. Here's the scenario...

You contract with a client to develop his web site. He provides you
with the content, photos, etc. and you package it all up and develop
his site and publish it. He's thrilled and pays your fee and you go
along, charging him for hosting (on a commercial site), the occasional
edit, etc.

Now, business turns bad and he says, "Turn it off. I'm done." You
cancel the hosting service and delete the content on the server. You
maintain a full copy on your local computer, however.

Now he comes back a couple months later and says, "I'm back in
business and Joe Blow here is going to do my web site. I want all my
pages, pictures, etc. Zip them and email to me."

Question... Who owns those pages that YOU developed?

Do you have an obligation to hand them over or, are they your Work
Product and while he has a right to the content (the words, pictures),
he has no right to the "package" that you created, that he paid for?

This is where I am right now and to complicate matters, it's a
"friend" who screwed me in a previous business deal.

What would you do?


Paul Fenton

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

Paul: You said you contracted with the client... what did the contract say?
Unless otherwise stated, I suspect most clients would assume that they owned
the finished product. If you had charged him an artificially-low price up
front, with the expectation that you'd make your money over time (via
maintenance & hosting payments), and the contract said this, great! But I
doubt that's the case.

In any event, had the client backed up the website on his own, would you
feel differently if he put it back up?

And finally, did you tell him anything, when he asked to have everything
shut down, that would lead him to believe you had an ongoing relationship of
some sort? You *might* be able to convince him that you ought to be
compensated for those extra couple of months. Then again, you might not.

I'd probably just walk away from it, and try to use the lessons learned to
make things work better in the future.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Peter Taurins]

If you did not state that you would keep a backup, then he has no idea that
you have a backup and possibly you could respond that as he did not require
you to keep a backup you didn't, so sorry, you have nothing. You may
consider charging him for keeping the backup if you were not contractually
obliged.

If contractually yuor were obliged to keep a backup then the customer
probably owns the content, depending on what IP clauses your contract has.

Peter.

 

[Geoffw]

he owns the lot, if he did not have a backup his bad luck,
if you have a backup up to you how you deal with it.

Unless of course there was specific contractual arrangements
about all this.

Say sorry, when you pulled the plug our relationship ended
and offer to create the site again

 

[MD WebsUnlimited.com]

It belongs to the client as he paid the contract price to have you develop
the web site. The copyright of the materials remains with you but the client
did license it.

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

In general the client on the content that he provided, now depending on your
agreement, did you give up your rights to the design concept and any custom
coding?

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Carl Vannest]

I read all of the replies and have my own twist on the entire thing. I work
for the Government and therfore anything and everything I do belongs to them
no matter what. I own my PC, but everything on it belongs to them. Hell,
If they wanted to they could give me grief for posting to this site. (I
still don't give a damn what they say....I do what I wanna do....they just
pay me the green stuff)

The fact of the matter being....no matter who it is, or what it is...unless
it is copyright by the owner, and the owner has information that you have
made the back-up you are under no obligation to provide the information back
to the originator. I could go out and take pictures off of every website
created, store them on my PC and by no means does the site originator have
the right to e-mail me and say..."I lost my pictures and I know you
downloaded them...so give them back". However, If you go out and use the
originators files as your own, or for another company the originator may sue
you for copyright infringement. So....my advice to you...plain and simple!
Tell the guy to go suck an egg.....you are under no legal obligation to
provide him something that he should have kept for himself. You were merely
providing a hosting service...not a "save your crap for when business was
good again" service! If he has any issues....I have some friends in the
legal business (government of course)...but I'll lend you a hand with some
legal documentation!

Good Luck,
Carl
"Government Bi***"

 

[Charles W Davis]

Rather than accept the speculative comments of the posts
here, read this:
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

 

[Paul Fenton]

Thanks to all of you who replied. The consensus seems to be that the
client is out of luck, except for any original content that he
provided that's still in my possession. There is none of that.

He gave me product catalogs from 3rd party suppliers & manufacturers
and some words on a piece of paper. I scanned photos from the
catalog, integrated those with his words to create a package and that
was the site. The entire site design was all mine as were the
original graphics that I created for his site.

Since I returned his catalogs a long time ago, it would seem that I
have no further obligation to hand over my original work.


Paul Fenton

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

Still depends on your original agreement for site creation
- always include a clause for ownership and rights of the site design vs. content

--




| Thanks to all of you who replied. The consensus seems to be that the
| client is out of luck, except for any original content that he
| provided that's still in my possession. There is none of that.
|
| He gave me product catalogs from 3rd party suppliers & manufacturers
| and some words on a piece of paper. I scanned photos from the
| catalog, integrated those with his words to create a package and that
| was the site. The entire site design was all mine as were the
| original graphics that I created for his site.
|
| Since I returned his catalogs a long time ago, it would seem that I
| have no further obligation to hand over my original work.
|
|
| Paul Fenton
|
|
|
|
| On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:34:05 -0700, Paul Fenton
|
| >For those of you out there who get paid to develop web sites, I'd like
| >some opinions. Here's the scenario...
| >
| >You contract with a client to develop his web site. He provides you
| >with the content, photos, etc. and you package it all up and develop
| >his site and publish it. He's thrilled and pays your fee and you go
| >along, charging him for hosting (on a commercial site), the occasional
| >edit, etc.
| >
| >Now, business turns bad and he says, "Turn it off. I'm done." You
| >cancel the hosting service and delete the content on the server. You
| >maintain a full copy on your local computer, however.
| >
| >Now he comes back a couple months later and says, "I'm back in
| >business and Joe Blow here is going to do my web site. I want all my
| >pages, pictures, etc. Zip them and email to me."
| >
| >Question... Who owns those pages that YOU developed?
| >
| >Do you have an obligation to hand them over or, are they your Work
| >Product and while he has a right to the content (the words, pictures),
| >he has no right to the "package" that you created, that he paid for?
| >
| >This is where I am right now and to complicate matters, it's a
| >"friend" who screwed me in a previous business deal.
| >
| >What would you do?
| >
| >
| >Paul Fenton
|

 

[dp]

What if he had paid you to paint his picture and hang it in your gallery.
Then he says to take it off the wall for a while because his mother-in-law's
in town and he doesn't want it seen by her. After she leaves town, he comes
to you and says "Give me my painting. I'm going to hang it in another
gallery." Would you tell him he doesn't own the painting he paid for? You
provided the paint and canvas. All he did was provide the face - and some
cash.
dp