Which Low-Profile AGP card?

J

***JB

I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my choice
to two cards.

These are...
XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)

Which low profile card would everyone recommend?
Thanks
 
K

Kadaitcha Man

***JB, <[email protected]>, the jerry-built, swirling hen, and
employee who follows soldiers to encampments and sets up tents to sell sex,
spouted:
I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF
machine, these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've
narrowed my choice to two cards.

These are...
XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)

No contest. Give ATI as wide a berth as you can. I'd explain why but there's
enough information on the web and enough complaints on usenet so you can
look for the reasons yourself.

If you decide to jump the other way, don't forget that you were warned.

--
 
B

Ben Myers

I prefer ATI cards.

Video cards with nVidia chipsets have a mixed reputation, caused mostly by the
fact that nVidia licenses its basic board design to just about any company that
wants to manufacture cards. The consequence is quality everywhere from
excellent to cheap-and-sleazy. The major issue with nVidia chips is that they
run hot. When a video card manufacturer chooses either to overclock the chip or
to provide substandard cooling (a cheap cooling fan), the chips either burn out
or begin to display wierd artifacts on the monitor screen. I replaced yet
another nVidia graphics card for a client. The card was about 4 years old and
displayed annoying shadows on the monitor in addition to what it was supposed to
display.

No matter what, pay attention to ventilation inside the computer. A graphics
card loaded with 128MB of memory is another heat source inside an already
cramped SFF chassis... Ben Myers
 
C

Chris Ballance

I prefer ATI cards.

Really??
Video cards with nVidia chipsets have a mixed reputation, caused mostly by the
fact that nVidia licenses its basic board design to just about any company that


ATI cards tend to be OK. Its there support that is the trouble.

There drivers (with the exception of windows) are very buggy. They
often support fewer features than there windows counterparts. They also
fail to offer 64 bit versions. If there drivers were supplied as source
this would be no problem. However they are provided only as binary,
which means that customers tend to have to bear with ATIs whim as to
when the 64 bit drivers will be realised.

(As you may have guessed, I am not very happy with ATI as before I
purchased my new 64 bit machine with a Raedon 9600SE they promised the
64 bit binary drivers would be along 'very soon'. A long time later I
am still waiting, and they are still failing to reply to my direct
queries as to when they will be released.)

-- Chris
 
B

Ben Myers

Your comments make sense. My perspective is a little more trailing edge,
servicing, upgrading and refurbishing computers... Ben Myers
 
K

Kadaitcha Man

the hated said:
ATI cards tend to be OK. Its there support that is the trouble.

There drivers (with the exception of windows) are very buggy. They
often support fewer features than there windows counterparts. They
also fail to offer 64 bit versions. If there drivers were supplied as
source this would be no problem. However they are provided only as
binary, which means that customers tend to have to bear with ATIs
whim as to when the 64 bit drivers will be realised.

(As you may have guessed, I am ...

... illiterate.

--
 
J

Jon Danniken

***JB said:
I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my choice
to two cards.

These are...
XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)

Which low profile card would everyone recommend?

Of those two cards, I would choose the FX5200. Even if the 9200 was not an
SE (very slow) version, the FX5200 would still be preferable; my information
was gleaned from this source:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html

As far as the general quality of ATI vs. nVidia, there are going to be a
certain number of rabid fanb0is for either manufacturer, and they can safely
be ignored. For the rest of us, they are both good manufacturers of GPUs.

Jon
 
K

kony

Your comments make sense. My perspective is a little more trailing edge,
servicing, upgrading and refurbishing computers... Ben Myers

Yet there is nothing particularly unique about ATI card's
fans to make then last any longer, it is the weakest link on
many cards regardless of GPU brand on it.
 
B

Ben Myers

Too true. This is the price people pay for high end graphics cards with hot
chips and lots of memory. The cards consume a lot of electrical power and
produce a lot of heat which must be ventilated somehow. The space between an
AGP slot and an adjacent PCI slot is narrow, leaving little room for a
ventilating fan capable of moving many cubic feet per minute of air. The space
between slots does not really allow air to circulate freely either.

There are differences in the quality, ventilating capacity and size of cooling
fans used on graphics cards.

Nevertheless, the fact that nVidia cards are made almost exclusively by
manufacturers with widely varying quality standards (i.e. literally ANY company
willing to pay the price for the chips) argues against nVidia cards as a whole.
Still, there may be some nVidia chipset cards that are designed with reliability
in mind, and to provide adequate ventilation in a wide range of conditions.

ATI sells cards under its own brand name and also licenses its designs to other
manufacturers. I would recommend only ATI's own brand of cards rather than
others, for the same reason cited above re. nVidia. You pay more the ATI brand,
but you get what you pay for.

Simply stated, the slot design of personal computers, with one slot on top of
another, never anticipated the need for the ventilation requirelements of high
speed hot graphics cards with lotsa memory. If you install a newer AGP card,
try NOT to install any PCI card in the adjacent slot, or even the slot beyond.
Doing so leaves more space for air to circulate.

My experience with the repair of computers has to do with older computers, some
with as little as 8MB on-board memory and with slower and cooler graphics chips.
And cards wear out in such a limited environment. Now take that experience and
extrapolate it to graphics chips running twice as fast and controlling up to
256MB of memory. Imagine how long a card will last if it is made in a shoddy
manner. Speed kills. Kills graphics cards... Ben Myers
 
D

Dorothy Bradbury

Riser cards exist for both PCI & AGP:
o Sometimes they can help cooling - or impede it
o Depends on the case cooling layout, graphics card heatsink design etc

Keeping the slot next to the AGP slot clear is a very good idea.

Remember the fan on a graphics card is just to blow air on the heatsink
o You still have to get that heated air out of the PC
o Until the heated air is removed, the grfx card fan recirculates its own hot air
---- the delta-T between case-ambient & grfx heatsink becomes less
---- the card will run hotter, and the cheap fan typically will have a shorter life
o Some cards have better heatsinks than others
---- but getting the heat out of the case is important too :)

The BTX case design did have some benefits:
o It allowed a blow-thro direct airflow path thro inlet - CPU - Grfx - outlet
o Unfortunately it suggested a single (cheap) fan solution for all of them
---- Prescott P4 is a short-term architecture, future architecture is P-M
---- however Graphics Cards ramped very quickly in thermal output
o Passively cooled high-end graphics cards requires high airflow
---- otherwise case temperature suffers, and eventually so will the card

nVidia seen to have fewer problems than ATI.
ATI seem to be favoured by some reviewers, perhaps for reasons of
advertising or some particular application (multi-function graphics cards).
Well worth reading some reviews of the prospective cards - and there are
other branded suppliers of cards like Crucial to consider re driver quality.

Since you are looking at the non-bleeding-edge of the market, you may
want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling etc. It
has lower bandwidth than AGP - but is another option you may consider.

Driver quality does matter.
 
K

Kadaitcha Man

Dorothy said:
you may
want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling
etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

<looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>

--
 
K

Kadaitcha Man

(e-mail address removed) wrote in message
The point of the so-called resume being?

How about being civil, helpful and cosntructive, which is what nearly
all the people in the Hp newsgroup are?

There is a word to describe those who would have others conform to their
very narrow view of what they find acceptable. That word is supercilious.
Instead of looking for a dictionary, you can take my word for it that the
notions conveyed by the word include insolent, patronising, condescending,
sniffy, snobby, snooty, snotty and stuck-up, amongst other things.
Oh, yeah! And stay on
topic... Ben Myers

How about ****ing yourself up the arse with a hot-running chainsaw? A real
****ing big one?

--
 
G

Guest

The point of the so-called resume being?

How about being civil, helpful and cosntructive, which is what nearly all the
people in the Hp newsgroup are? Oh, yeah! And stay on topic... Ben Myers

Ben, this newsgroup along with others is being crossposted. There is
nothing you can do about it except killfile the obnoxious posters and
do away with it.
 
G

Guest

My bad! I tried to be reasonable. Plonk!

I am too supercilious to need a dictionary.

Been contributing positively to the HP newsgroup too long to go away.

... Ben Myers

Ben,

Please post your reply on the bottom of each message you reply to.
Most of us do not like top posters as they are dregs of the earth and
Outhouse Depress is a piece of shit and is for AOLamers from AOHell or
n00bs, not bright smart people like you.
 
L

Lady Chatterly

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers), <ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net (Ben Myers)>, the degenerative, unlovable scrotum, and employee
responsible for the feeding of cardboard into the machine that makes boxes,
creaked:


"To dream the impossible dream, to fight the unbeatable foe, to bear with
unbearable sorrow, to run where the brave dare not go ... "

God gives the nuts, but he doesn't crack them.

You request here that a search be reasonable, not exhaustive.

--
Lady Chatterly

"lady chatterly and i hand yings leash to you. good luck. oh and it
forgets its housetrained at times" -- edens morgan mair fheal
greykitten tomys des anges
 
K

Kadaitcha Man

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers), <ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net (Ben Myers)>, the degenerative, unlovable scrotum, and employee
responsible for the feeding of cardboard into the machine that makes boxes,
creaked:

I tried to be reasonable.

"To dream the impossible dream, to fight the unbeatable foe, to bear with
unbearable sorrow, to run where the brave dare not go ... "

# 3,661

--
 

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