Which Inkjet Paper for Picture Book?

[Adam]

Hi everyone! I think this question is a little different as the printer
isn't a problem in this case (Canon i550 inkjet if that matters).

Soon I'll be printing some line drawings, and want to use better paper
-- except the office supply stores around here have an overwhelming
number of choices that claim to work on inkjet printers -- so-called
standard, business, parchment, resume, linen, fine linen, and so on, and
I can't buy individual sheets of each to try out.

These are b/w line drawings with fine lines and lots of cross-hatching
(from hi-res scans), to be printed on only one side of each 8.5"x11"
sheet. If the ink bleeds on the paper at all, the drawings look awful.
Still, I want something heavier than usual (30-60 lb., I suppose).
Color has to be white but exact shade and brightness aren't critical.
Surface could be gloss or matte or anything in-between. Cost is
somewhat of a factor, preferably under $0.05/sheet in quantity, less if
possible.

What would you recommend for a paper that looks "arty" and expensive
(think overpriced gift book), but without any bleed when printed on an
inkjet? Or am I better off asking the paper manufacturers whose product
is available locally? Or the local art supply store? At the office
supply store, the "linen" and "fine linen" paper looked closest to what
I want, but I'm not sure how much they'll bleed. Any suggestions,
either for specific types of paper or more general advice, would be very
much appreciated!

Adam

 

[Bob AZ]

�At the office

supply store, the "linen" and "fine linen" paper looked closest to what
I want, but I'm not sure how much they'll bleed. �Any suggestions,
either for specific types of paper or more general advice, would be very
much appreciated!

Adam

Adam

InkJetArt.com is a good place to start.

Bob AZ

 

[Adam]

InkJetArt.com is a good place to start.

Thanks, Bob! That gives me a good idea of what's available. It looks
like there's lots more stuff on the web than I'd found so far.

Adam

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I'm not totally familiar with Canon models, so please excuse the ignorance.


From what I have seen on line, your printer users the 3e cartridges for
all 4 colors, which should be pigment colorant based.

Some of Canon printers use dye only and some use dye colors and two
blacks, one dye (all for photos) and one pigment black for text.
Pigment inks tend to be darker, and do not bleed nearly as much as dye
inks. They are designed to sit on the top surface of most papers and
give a sharper edge as a result.

If your black ink is indeed pigment, you may be able to get away with
rather inexpensive bond papers. Your budget, of 5 cents or less
restricts the choice to mainly uncoated papers. meaning mainly bond like
papers, which still may be fine.

Parchment paper usually costs more than 5 cents a page, but it is
usually sturdy and looks good, and will keep a good line with pigment ink.

There are some bond papers made up to about 25-30 lbs (HP makes a few
which are very white).

You may need to do a bit of testing, but generally speaking inkjet
printers using pigment colorant inks leave a nice clean sharp line, so
in that case, bond papers should be fine. They are often sold as "good
for laser or inkjet purposes". Look not only for weight of the paper
but also opacity (how dense or laking ease to read the other side. The
print will look cleaner.

If you want a very clean look you might try something like the matte
finish "photo quality" paper from Epson. This is lighter weight than
you suggest and may curl is left to, but it has one side of coatings. It
sells for about $0.05 a sheet on sale, but it is only coated on one
side, that brighter side is what you print upon.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Adam]

Thanks VERY much, Art, for such an informative reply!

From what I have seen on line, your printer users the 3e cartridges for
all 4 colors, which should be pigment colorant based.

Yes, the Canon i550 uses 3e cartridges for everything. (I think some
Canons use 3e for regular printing and 6e for photos.) I never even
thought about whether the ink was pigment or dye (it never mattered
before), and their own website doesn't say. All I can tell from the
package is that all 4 colors also contain glycerine and diethylene
glycol, if that means anything. Cyan and magenta also contain isopropyl
alcohol ("rubbing alcohol") and ethylene glycol.

Elementary question here: if Canon's own ink cartridges for this model
are pigment based, does that mean all other-brand replacement cartridges
are also pigment based, or could some be dyes?

If your black ink is indeed pigment, you may be able to get away with
rather inexpensive bond papers. Your budget, of 5 cents or less
restricts the choice to mainly uncoated papers. meaning mainly bond like
papers, which still may be fine.

One thing I think I forgot to mention in my original post was that I
don't need gallery-quality results here. This is a mockup of a picture
book, which I'll use to try to sell the project, so all I need is
something that /suggests/ quality paper.

Parchment paper usually costs more than 5 cents a page, but it is
usually sturdy and looks good, and will keep a good line with pigment ink.

Okay, I'll buy a small package of that, and see what results I get. The
brand sold in both local office supply stores (Staples, Office Depot) is
Southworth, so I emailed them with my question about paper type, but
haven't gotten a reply yet.

You may need to do a bit of testing, but generally speaking inkjet
printers using pigment colorant inks leave a nice clean sharp line

I'll spend this weekend trying out every kind of paper I already have
around here, which includes Canon glossy photo paper, and pages from
sketchbooks cut down to size.

If you want a very clean look you might try something like the matte
finish "photo quality" paper from Epson. This is lighter weight than you
suggest and may curl is left to, but it has one side of coatings. It
sells for about $0.05 a sheet on sale, but it is only coated on one
side, that brighter side is what you print upon.

That sounds like another good possibility. Thanks again for all your
suggestions and advice!

Adam

P.S. And a very Happy Thanksgiving to anyone in the USA who's reading this!

 

[Arthur Entlich]

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Thanks VERY much, Art, for such an informative reply!



Yes, the Canon i550 uses 3e cartridges for everything. (I think some
Canons use 3e for regular printing and 6e for photos.) I never even
thought about whether the ink was pigment or dye (it never mattered
before), and their own website doesn't say. All I can tell from the
package is that all 4 colors also contain glycerine and diethylene
glycol, if that means anything. Cyan and magenta also contain isopropyl
alcohol ("rubbing alcohol") and ethylene glycol.

Pretty much all inkjet printer used these solvents and wetting/drying
agents, or very similar formulations. The glycols and glycerin keep the
ink "wet" to help prevent clogging of the head, and allow the fresher
ink to "rewet" the older ink on the head surface, it also keep the ink
from freezing during shipment in color weather.

The isopropyl alcohol works to both speed up drying on the paper, and
reduces surface tension so the ink penetrates the paper surface more easily.

Elementary question here: if Canon's own ink cartridges for this model
are pigment based, does that mean all other-brand replacement cartridges
are also pigment based, or could some be dyes?

No. Rarely will dye ink be replaced by pigment on 3rd party inks,
however, the other way around may occur since pigment ink tends to be
more costly.

One thing I think I forgot to mention in my original post was that I
don't need gallery-quality results here. This is a mockup of a picture
book, which I'll use to try to sell the project, so all I need is
something that /suggests/ quality paper.


Okay, I'll buy a small package of that, and see what results I get. The
brand sold in both local office supply stores (Staples, Office Depot) is
Southworth, so I emailed them with my question about paper type, but
haven't gotten a reply yet.

Not familiar with that brand per se, but I'm not familiar with the
brands of parchment paper in general. I have bought several types and
they worked well, even with dye ink printers which usually bleed with
non-specialized papers.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I wish it were a simple answer.

Yes, pigment inks are almost always more permanent in terms of fading.

What you need to understand about pigment inks is they are made from
solid particles ground very small, but they are still relatively large
compared to dye colorants which are literally molecular in dimension.

Dye inks, are dissolved into the carrier, and they penetrate the paper
surface and get locked in the paper fibre or other substrate.

Pigment inks, with adhesive carriers can literally not adhere to the
paper surface and flake or rub off. They are sharper because they do not
bleed, but if the adhesive qualities of the carrier are poor, while they
are less likely to fade, they may fall off due to physical action to the
surface.

So, permanence is about a number of things, how well the colorant holds
to the paper surface or internally, how limited the UV or other
environmental factors alter the color intensity of the molecules or
particles. How well the carriers maintain neutrality of color or integrity.

The reason dye inks are more forgiving, in general, to clogs is that
they do not require an adhesive carrier, such as a resin, and they are
rarely waterproof, as a result.

In general, dye inks give the purest colors, most transparency and
widest color range. However, with the proper mix of color inks, pigment
inks can get close.

Now, as to clogs. In the Epson ink line up (OEM), based upon my
experience and the number of requests for cleaning documents, from worse
to best I would list them as follows:

Worst to best:

Durabrite Inks (Pigment)
Durabrite Ultra (Pigment)
Ultrachrome Glossy (Pigment)
Standard Dye Inks (dye)
Ultrachrome with K4 inks (Pigment)
Ultrachrome Standard (Pigment)
Claria Ink (hybrid probably dye and pigment mix)


Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Joel]

Hi everyone! I think this question is a little different as the printer
isn't a problem in this case (Canon i550 inkjet if that matters).

Soon I'll be printing some line drawings, and want to use better paper
-- except the office supply stores around here have an overwhelming
number of choices that claim to work on inkjet printers -- so-called
standard, business, parchment, resume, linen, fine linen, and so on, and
I can't buy individual sheets of each to try out.

All you need to do is making up your mind then buy whatever you need.

- If you want brighter then go for the brighter paper like 102-104 Bright

- If you want thicker then go for thicker than 20lb

- If you want some fancy pattern then go for it.

Buy a small pack of RESUME then you should be able to see the difference
with the standard paper.

 

[Adam]

Yes, the Canon i550 uses 3e cartridges for everything. [snip]
all 4 colors also contain glycerine and diethylene
glycol, if that means anything.

Pretty much all inkjet printer used these solvents and wetting/drying
agents, or very similar formulations.

Oh, okay. I thought that might be a clue as to whether they're pigments
or dyes.

I tried every kind of paper I already had around here, and image quality
didn't vary much. The ones with the best "feel" were paper from
artists' sketchbooks, cut down to size. I'll have to see whether the
local art supply store carries something similar in letter size, but
affordable. Also I'll get a few small packages of various kinds of
paper from an office supply store. And most important, to know when to
stop, as after all this is only a mockup.

I'm also learning a lot from the other messages in this newsgroup,
especially the ones about chips in ink cartridges. Things seem to have
changed a lot since I bought this Canon i550 around 2003!

Adam

 

[Adam]

All you need to do is making up your mind then buy whatever you need.

- If you want brighter then go for the brighter paper like 102-104 Bright

- If you want thicker then go for thicker than 20lb

- If you want some fancy pattern then go for it.

Buy a small pack of RESUME then you should be able to see the difference
with the standard paper.

Thanks for your suggestions, Joel. You're right, no point agonizing
over this. I think I'll just get some small packages of different kinds
of paper (at both office and art supply stores), then go back and get a
large package of whichever one works best.

Adam

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Pigment inks are less dependent upon paper surface than dye inks in
terms of the look.

You might want to look at some of the student grade watercolor papers
sold in some art supply stores. They comes in fairly large sheets and
can be cut to size. They come with several surface textures and they
are usually considerably less costly than name brand professional
papers. Some printmaker papers are also fairly reasonably priced and
have a wide variation of surfaces and weights, as well as color tones.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Yes, the Canon i550 uses 3e cartridges for everything. [snip]
all 4 colors also contain glycerine and diethylene
glycol, if that means anything.

Pretty much all inkjet printer used these solvents and wetting/drying
agents, or very similar formulations.

Oh, okay. I thought that might be a clue as to whether they're pigments
or dyes.

I tried every kind of paper I already had around here, and image quality
didn't vary much. The ones with the best "feel" were paper from
artists' sketchbooks, cut down to size. I'll have to see whether the
local art supply store carries something similar in letter size, but
affordable. Also I'll get a few small packages of various kinds of
paper from an office supply store. And most important, to know when to
stop, as after all this is only a mockup.

I'm also learning a lot from the other messages in this newsgroup,
especially the ones about chips in ink cartridges. Things seem to have
changed a lot since I bought this Canon i550 around 2003!

Adam

 

[randallphoto]

Hi Arthur, very interesting reading your replies - you clearly know your stuff.

Could I ask... I'm trying to make a book using fine art paper (Epson Enhanced Matt) using K3 inks and I'm experiencing a slight ink transfer on to the opposite page. Is there anything I can do to minimise this apart from using a protective spray? It seems like the black ink is the main culprit so wondering if reducing the black coverage and/or using PhotoBlack instead of MattBlack.

Any ideas/suggestion?

Thanks

 

[Adam]

You might want to look at some of the student grade watercolor papers
sold in some art supply stores. They comes in fairly large sheets and
can be cut to size. They come with several surface textures and they are
usually considerably less costly than name brand professional papers.
Some printmaker papers are also fairly reasonably priced and have a wide
variation of surfaces and weights, as well as color tones.

Thanks again, Art! I expect to use 120 to 200 sheets of letter-size
paper on this project, which would require a lot more cutting than I'd
want to do. I stopped by the local art supply store today, and found a
sketchbook labelled 8.5"x11" with 80 lb. paper, so I bought one, and I
think it's good enough for this project. Cost per sheet is about US
$0.12 which is more than I'd planned, but the specialty paper at the
office supply stores is at least that much anyway and goes up from
there. That still puts the total paper cost under $25.

BTW with this paper, I get better results using the rougher side of the
paper. With cheap "multipurpose" paper I think the smoother side is
usually better. Thanks again, everybody, for all your help with this,
because it does look like I've found a solution here.

Adam

 

[Bob AZ]

�I stopped by the local art supply store today, and found a

sketchbook labelled 8.5"x11" with 80 lb. paper, so I bought one, and I
think it's good enough for this project. �.

Adam

Adam

Paper for inkjet papers needs to be coated so that the ink just
penetrates the paper. Otherwsie the ink sory of runs or smears. And
the real glossy paper surface will not accept any ink at all. What you
need is a coated paper that is in between. I would imagine the
sketchbook paper will fail because it is usually not coated.

Bob AZ

 

[Adam]

Paper for inkjet papers needs to be coated so that the ink just
penetrates the paper. Otherwise the ink sort of runs or smears. And
the real glossy paper surface will not accept any ink at all. What you
need is a coated paper that is in between. I would imagine the
sketchbook paper will fail because it is usually not coated.

Thanks for your reply, Bob! The sketchbook I bought today ("Aquabee
Sketch Paper") specifically mentioned inkjet printers. The printed
image on its rough (front) side looks as sharp as the best of the other
papers I tried, and, once dry, won't smear unless it gets wet. On its
smooth side the printing is okay but not as black. Could it have
something to do with pigments vs. dyes? (I'm not sure which a Canon 3e
black cartridge is.)

BTW the other papers I tried before were Staples store brand
"multipurpose" and "printing" papers, Canon glossy photo paper, and
paper cut to size from two other, older sketchbooks, and the image was
pretty sharp on all of those. Maybe I'm just lucky? ;-)

Adam

 

[Adam]

Could it have something to
do with pigments vs. dyes? (I'm not sure which a Canon 3e black
cartridge is.)

P.S. A quick web search said that the Canon 3e black ink cartridge is
pigment, while the similar 6e cartridge (for photos) is dye. There are
other-brand replacements for the 3e that are dye, though.

Adam

 

[Arthur Entlich]

This really depends upon the ink formulation and somewhat the paper too.

Some pigment inks will do just fine with non-coated papers because they
are designed to allow the pigment particles to sit on the top surface of
the paper and just have an adhesive material like a plastic resin in the
base of the ink to "glue" the particles to the paper surface.

Dye inks almost all need specially coated papers to get good results
because the colorant in dyes is dissolved into the base, and the
molecules are small enough that the water carries the colorant into the
paper fibres. However those same dyes can produce very bright colors on
properly coated papers.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Your printer is using pigment inks, as I recall the 3e inks being. And
yes it can make quite a difference.

Also, some papers even for non-inkjet sue may be sized with mordants or
starches which hold the ink from bleeding.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Adam]

Your printer is using pigment inks, as I recall the 3e inks being. And
yes it can make quite a difference.

A quick web search showed that Canon's 3e cartridges are pigments, but
some third-party ones are dyes. I've printed (with Canon ink) on a
variety of papers, and the only disappointment was really cheap
off-brand dollar-store photo paper.

Also, some papers even for non-inkjet use may be sized with mordants or
starches which hold the ink from bleeding.

I don't know enough about papermaking (which is an art of its own) to be
able to tell. I hadn't realized there was so much to inks and papers.
Thanks again for your help with this!

Adam