When can we expect a stable Movie Maker

G

Guest

I've read all the things about Codecs, but let's get back to basics here.

1. I am using AVI files - I used Movie Maker to write this file
2. I am using GIF files - Movie Maker seems to accept them.
3. I have a driver from microsoft for my graphics card.
4. I have direct X from microsoft.
5. In fact, everything related to movies on my PC is from microsoft.
6. Automatic updates are on, so they must be the latest versions.

All the advice about swapping Codecs, updating graphics cards, using the
latest direct X, making sure you have the correct sound card drivers is very
nice. But let's face it, this software just does not work as supplied. It is
not stable. It is not usable. It is advertised as being a simple, easy to use
piece of software that anyone can use. This simply is not true. You need to
be an expert to use it, and you have to be prepared to spend several days
ironing out all the bugs.

So, the real question is, when can we expect a new version that works? Out
of the box. No fixes required?

Anyone got any ideas on this?

Or is it time to buy a Mac?
 
J

John Kelly

Hello,

You make good points, but you have rather glossed over a lot of things.....

3. I have a driver from microsoft for my graphics card.

Then there is a good chance you do not have the best driver. The BEST driver
can only be obtained from the manufacturer of your card...not the chipset
(NVidia for example) the card itself
4. I have direct X from microsoft.

Not all directX are equal. You would not for example on hearing that a new
vehicle fuel had been invented expect it to ruin in your car, would you?...The
latest Movie Maker ONLY works with DirectX version 9.0c
5. In fact, everything related to movies on my PC is from microsoft.

Well yes I expect it is, but you would not expect an old version, lets say 6 of
media player to run a version 9 video file.
6. Automatic updates are on, so they must be the latest versions.

Ah!, NO....I for one have little faith in automatic updates...do you KNOW that
the last update was successful? It might seem to be...but your system could be
telling you little porkpies......Some installs depend on PRIOR installs. If the
prior install failed but left a big enough trace behind the newer install
process will think everything is OK....like Version Numbers......Registry
Entries properly maintained...the list goes on and on. Never EVER assume
anything...and make sure you have a good backup as in not more than a week old.

What I can tell you, and several others will be able to say much the same thing
here, I have not had a program of ANY kind fail on my system in YEARS. I have
screwed programs up causing them to fail so they do not count. The reason I and
many others have no problems at all is I am sure going to sound rather
smug...but what the hell. I allow NOTHING on to my machine that comes from a
previously unknown source. I do not mess around with weird and wonderful Codecs
or small programs that are supposed to be better than sliced bread because they
are almost always not better than anything at all....such programs all have at
least one common thing...they take up disk space. I have several professional
qualifications in Database Management as well as System Administration. Prior
to giving up work all together I earned a good living designing and
implementing such systems including writing the software, those systems still
work well, many years later. Why ??? The first part of the specification is to
remove all means (floppy disk drives and in some instances all cd/dvd drives)
so that the users cannot put that neat little screen saver on their system etc

Back to the main point. Because I and quite a few others have NO trouble, or at
the very worst almost no trouble, and because you only need one exception to
break a rule, the Microsoft stuff DOES work quite well and almost never crashes
and when it does, it is more often than not an "Operator Error" or a hardware
problem. Quite often when a user has a problem, we find that its because he has
not updated properly, or in some cases uses software of a doubtful nature or
because that person simply has not read and complied with the instructions of
use.

If none of the above strikes a chord, then how about this. Movie Maker is worth
exactly what you paid for it, Nothing at all.

I have 3 video editing programs on my system...they are MovieDV from aist.de
(The company is otherwise known as CINEGY...you will find mention of them in
the post production work on many recent films), I obviously have Movie Maker
and I have Nero 6 Reloaded...a program that impress's me more each time I use
it and discover some new feature/ability/effect whatever. I do not have things
like DivX I ONLY use commercial software....I make sure that all updates are
applied and on the odd occasion I am not sure about it I restore my latest back
up. I NEVER use the system restore because it can not do a full and proper job.

Hope that helps a little...I do sympathy for you, but not for the reasons you
gave.

--
Best Wishes.....John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
www.the-kellys.co.uk
Check out free video hosting at www.the-kellys.org
----
\|||/
(oo)
----------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work
 
P

PapaJohn \(MVP\)

Hi Brandon,

I'd have to say that Movie Maker has worked fine on over 90% of the
computers that I've checked it 'out of the box'.... it's only after the
users have done stuff to it that it runs into issues.

Yes, lots of people are having issues... and posting here and on forums. But
that's what the newsgroup is for. When I go to forums about Macs I see lots
of issues people are having with them too. So advice about graphics cards,
codecs, other software, etc. is kind of normal.

I was at a professional video service the other day and asked what they used
for software.... Adobe Premiere Pro. Higher priced than some apps, but not
as expensive as switching from a PC to a Mac..

Movie Maker is for home casual users wanting to have fun... most are.
--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2 - www.papajohn.org
Photo Story 2 - www.photostory.papajohn.org
Photo Story 3 - use the menu branch at www.papajohn.org

..
 
G

Guest

Thanks for the information about Macs - that will at least keep my father
quiet since he is always telling me that they are much better.

I've just gone through the painful experience of re-installing my computer
from scratch this week. I was rather hoping that it would fix the crashes.
Apart from windows I have some Adobe products, microsoft office word/excel,
MathCAD, SkyPE and O2 GPRS connection stuff. I can't quite understand how any
of these can affect the default, microsoft installation of movie maker and
its codecs. I don't have any MPEG decoders, I don't have a DVD drive.

I've read John Kelly's reply, and he may be right. But, as I put in the
first post, this stuff should work out of the box. I believe that all the SP2
stuff came from microsoft. I don't think I have any drivers that didn't.

Perhaps the answer is a different PC, with different hardware? If 90% of
them work, I can't be unlucky twice, or at least it is unlikely.

Time to download Adobe's trial maybe (but then I won't be able to claim that
I have not installed other things! Ho-hum)
 
G

Guest

I guess my expectations are just too high then. We probably had comments like
this with Word 10 years ago. Maybe I should come back in 10 years time!

Thanks, but I am not going to follow all the stuff you put in "FAQ: Crashes
& Hangs: 20050116". I'm afraid that it will take a very long time to identify
the parts that are going wrong and then fix them. I'm more likely to use
another product and hope they don't suffer too.
 
J

John Kelly

Hello,

Thanks, but I am not going to follow all the stuff you put in "FAQ: Crashes
& Hangs: 20050116". I'm afraid that it will take a very long time to identify
the parts that are going wrong and then fix them. I'm more likely to use
another product and hope they don't suffer too.

Well the VERY BAD news is that IF your problem is graphics card related or
DirectX related then you will have the same kind of problems....if you are
going to use Windows then you have to go through the Windows Interface unless
you are using something that uses the low level games drivers.....I doubt if
you will be though. With respect to your comment about taking a long time to
identify, maybe I need to re-write it...YOU do not identify it at all, you just
follow the instructions exactly as laid down...it will fix your problem if it
is one of those outlined...you need no prior knowledge

As far as switching to a MAC goes. Well I KNOW that all the publishing houses
over here use and I was talking to an I. T. lecturer over in Newport, VA a few
weeks back and he teaches with and recommends the use of Macs

I have only used a Mac seriously once. It was at a Coach Builders, there had
been an incident and they allowed me the use of their draftsmen's equipment. It
started off as being under supervision....and what was expected to take all day
took a couple of hours only....and most of that was drinking tea waiting for
the largest flatbed printer I have ever seen do its work. Mac's really are VERY
good.

However, if you want to get a little more serious about it then you should
install Red Hat Linux in its own partition and grab a free copy of Cine
Paint...formerly known as The Video Gimp This software (which you can modify
the code for yourself under the Public Licence agreement) was used in
productions like Shrek, I think Finding Nemo...and there was one other...can't
remember now It is brilliant kit and its FREE, but it requires a lot more in
the way of your own abilities....one person I recommended it to changed to
using it for several weeks...he switched back though saying he had forgotten
how easy Windows XP is


--
Best Wishes.....John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
www.the-kellys.co.uk
Check out free video hosting at www.the-kellys.org
----
\|||/
(oo)
----------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work
 
J

John Kelly

AND.......I did not hear your reply on the following......

• A new third tab in the Tools > Options window shows a list of filters (codecs)
on the computer, and lets you uncheck any that you want to not get in the way of
Movie Maker. Un-checking one immediately removes it from the picture without
effecting other software that uses the same item. You don't need to search for
and rename an ax file or use John Kelly's utility.

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN, as we now know the feature you refer to does NOT work
properly and does NOT deal with all of the CODECS...So Sorry to point out
another load of rubbish published by you


--
Best Wishes.....John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
www.the-kellys.co.uk
Check out free video hosting at www.the-kellys.org
----
\|||/
(oo)
----------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work
 
G

Guest

Humm, I looked in here, and there are no (zero) filters/codecs listed. I
probably have to read your web-site and post in more detail to figure out why.

I guess that does point the way to a graphics card/directX though.

One thing I was going to try on my next movie was use BMP's rather than
GIF's for still images. I found something about JPEGs being a problem. If you
know anything about GIF's being a problem too then that would be useful.

After that I guess I am off the NVidia (?) web-site.

Thanks
 
J

John Kelly

Hello,

Yes, sorry about that....that particular comment was meant for John Buechler,
he has a way of making remarks and not supporting them...ho-hum
Anyway, sorry again...it was not meant for you at all.
BUT BUT BUT !!!!! I am surprised that there are no Codecs listed...but not all
that much...on my system it stated I had a DivX codec installed....No I Do
Not...I would never knowingly put one on my system.....but all the same...No
Codecs listed might be cause for concern.

Working on the assumption that you have a DVD playing package or any "other"
software along those lines, I would expect to see some sort of reference in
that tab. Again, assuming that you do have such a program. It may be that there
is a problem with the Registry. Corrupted entries in the registry can cause a
program that is just "scanning" to miss the all important entry whereas a
direct call may well easily bypass that corruption and go to the right
location....Please take note that there are "If's" piled up on top of other
"If's" in that comment
One thing I was going to try on my next movie was use BMP's rather than
GIF's for still images. I found something about JPEGs being a problem. If you
know anything about GIF's being a problem too then that would be useful.
It would not hurt to change the Gif's to Bitmaps...if you are not trying to use
transparent colour's that is. I always recommend the use of bitmaps....Movie
Maker does not have to do any pre-processing with them.
And as far as NVidia is concerned NO!!! You should ALWAYS get your driver from
the company that manufactured your graphics card, OR, if it built in then get
it from the manufacturer of the motherboard. The reason is the company that
make the cards do not necessarily install an unmodified chipset...One of my
cards is like that and turns its toes up if I install the microsoft drivers and
performs poorly with the NVidia drivers....but with the Gainward drivers it
ROARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Best Wishes.....John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
www.the-kellys.co.uk
Check out free video hosting at www.the-kellys.org
----
\|||/
(oo)
----------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work
 
G

Guest

Hi John,

I've gone through your posting "FAQ: Crashes & Hangs: 20050116" in detail
and I have a few comments/problems/issues (you know what I mean!)

I have a Dell 8100 laptop (for my sins - I've been waiting three years for
it the break but it won't). The graphics card kindly reports that it is a
Dell 8100 graphics card, and I have the Dell Driver installed.

I don't have any DVD stuff installed (so I can't play MPEG2 files in any
form). That's probably why there are no Codecs listed.

Another thing - my Movie Maker does not crash at the same point all the
time. So testing the Codecs is a little difficult (or have I mis-understood
that bit?) I can make movies - I just save after every edit. Sometimes it
dies, then I close/open and go on. I always go on doing the thing where it
dies last, and normally life is fine. I don't see how this can be a Codec
problem. Sounds more like someone got their threads and semaphores messed up.
(My computer is a specially slow one, a mere 600MHz, so that may explain why
faster ones work better and crash less).

Today I had about 10 crashes in a row, which is when I got annoyed enough to
post here. Normally it isn't that bad. I must say that it becomes less stable
when the movie gets longer.

Another thing, when it dies it just sits there. It doesn't take CPU, it
doesn't do much. It just waits for itself... Maybe this is what everyone sees.

Before I go through the Codec stuff, can you explain how I will know which
ones make it crash?

Many thanks

Brendan
 
J

John Kelly

Hello there,
I have a Dell 8100 laptop (for my sins - I've been waiting three years for
it the break but it won't). The graphics card kindly reports that it is a
Dell 8100 graphics card, and I have the Dell Driver installed.

Thats good, but is it the latest driver? One issued perhaps after DirectX
0.0c ?
I don't have any DVD stuff installed (so I can't play MPEG2 files in any
form). That's probably why there are no Codecs listed.

At least that cuts the search for the solution down. But, just because
Movie Maker fails to properly identify any of the known codecs does not mean
that you do not have them...On one of my machines it reports I have DivX
codec...wrong and it does not report that I have an old version of WinDVD
codecs either.....so take what it says with a pinch of salt.
Another thing - my Movie Maker does not crash at the same point all the
time. So testing the Codecs is a little difficult (or have I
mis-understood
that bit?) I can make movies - I just save after every edit. Sometimes it
dies, then I close/open and go on. I always go on doing the thing where it
dies last, and normally life is fine. I don't see how this can be a Codec
problem. Sounds more like someone got their threads and semaphores messed
up.
(My computer is a specially slow one, a mere 600MHz, so that may explain
why
faster ones work better and crash less).

Hmm yes and no....The only problems you will have are when trying to
Capture large format video. When it comes to proccessing the data it will
run very slowly and thats all...the speed of the processor when working on
non-time-critical-matters is only import when considering how long that
proxess will take...it will have no effect on the quality or cause the
system to lockup or crash.

Codecs are unfortunately difficult to pin down. Movie Maker can fail at
different points and it can still be a codec issue. On a much shorter time
scale than a second (its called a T State) The environment changes. and as
Movie Maker chugs away at doing its "thing" so do other process's. Often
those other process's will have no effect at all on Movie Maker, but, every
now and then a procedure that Movie Maker needs to begin/continue/finish
will have problems primarily from within its own environment but exaserpated
by conditions else where...the end result, a crash.
Today I had about 10 crashes in a row, which is when I got annoyed enough
to
post here. Normally it isn't that bad. I must say that it becomes less
stable
when the movie gets longer.

Yes I know what you mean. For some reason Movie Maker seems to hold all
necessary information/data in Memory and by alocating system resources so
that as the project becomes larger so the the demands on the computer. I
would imagine that this situation arose out of someones less than acceptable
(with hindsight) estimation of what the program might be used for. I have
created a few graphics programs for my employers using Geo-Demographic Data.
The pilot program (the proposition) was made so that all info was in memory
and did not have to be fetched from some where else. It ran pretty fast. The
final program on the same equipment ran maybe 30% slower but it could/does
deal with millions of descrete facts. The cost of a machine that could hold
that data in-memory...well lets say I valued my position :) The point of all
of this is that Movie Maker i8s clearly at breaking point with respect to
some of its abilities. The cost of changing that situation might be
expensive and beyond acceptable So I expect we are stuck with it.
Another thing, when it dies it just sits there. It doesn't take CPU, it
doesn't do much. It just waits for itself... Maybe this is what everyone
sees.

Yes I understand exactly what you are saying and have seen that myself. The
explanation is simple...Its waiting for an answer that is never going to
arrive !!! So it just sits there twiddling its thumbs :)
Before I go through the Codec stuff, can you explain how I will know which
ones make it crash?

Ah, the $64,000 question...the short answer is without experimentation you
don't. There is an easy way to determine which it may be The program on my
website "Rename Codecs" will search for and identify codecs that are known
to cause problems and will display them in a list. At that point you can
select from one to all of them and have them re-named. Running movie maker
afterwards would give you the answer if you only renamed one....If movie
maker no longer crashes then you nailed it...lreaving that one codecs
renamed would probably ensure that a codec problem will never again cause
Movie Maker to crash...but its not a guarantee....going bacjk to what I said
about the environment changing, a situation could occur where one of the
other known problem codecs will cause you trouble. Thats why I always
recomend that you rename them all.

Staying with the rename codec program. It is VERY important that you use the
program to restore those codecs to their original name as soon as you have
finished with Movie Maker. You do this so that any other program using one
of those codecs will function properly. If you decide to use the program
make sure that you read the tutorial on my site before you proceed.

--
Best Wishes.....John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
www.the-kellys.co.uk
Check out free video hosting at www.the-kellys.org
----
\|||/
(oo)
----------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top