What's happening to SeaSonic?

[Dave C.]

This past year I've noticed my local computer store dropped SeaSonic power
supplies. Even the offerings at Newegg and Amazon have gone down. I
really wanted to get one of their new M12II Bronze models, saw one listed
on Sept. 30 at Newegg. The next day Newegg says they've deactivated the
item. Same at Amazon.

I did see on one website that says SeaSonic makes all the Corsair power
supplies. Is SeaSonic just pulling out of the market under their own name?

It's possible. They used to make fantastic stuff in the ~500W and under range, and their power supplies were rated REALISTICALLY. But, unless they came out with some new stuff recently, it seemed to me like they kind of gave up on trying to compete in the over 500W range, leaving that for other brands. So that would mean that Seasonic is kind of obsolete now. (500W is great, but puny by current standards) Oh, and Corsair power supplies are made by a variety of builders, including Seasonic. -Dave

 

[Bethany Jones]

This past year I've noticed my local computer store dropped SeaSonic power
supplies. Even the offerings at Newegg and Amazon have gone down. I
really wanted to get one of their new M12II Bronze models, saw one listed
on Sept. 30 at Newegg. The next day Newegg says they've deactivated the
item. Same at Amazon.

I did see on one website that says SeaSonic makes all the Corsair power
supplies. Is SeaSonic just pulling out of the market under their own name?

 

[Dave C.]

Attention-seeking bullshit.

The idea that systems use greater and greater power supplies is
nonsense, unless you are unaware of the fact that electronics
become more efficient as they become more powerful. My iPhone is
almost comparable to the first supercomputer, and it runs on a
small lithium-ion battery...

Actually, the need for larger power supplies is part reality, but amplified by PERCEPTION. The last system I built requires a 500W power supply...as a perfect fit (no room for later expansion). It is mid-range by today's standards. I put an 800W power supply in it. Lowest I could have used would have been roughly 650W, as I like to leave room for expansion. But I couldn't find anything in the 650W range that I liked (read: good reviews, decent price).

Efficiency can help, but you need your power supply sized correctly to begin with. Many computer builders are under the impression that 500W power supplies are obsolete. Well, with quad-core processors and SLI graphics, 500W power supplies really are kind of puny.

But there are many systems still being built today that would be quite happy with 500W. -Dave

 

[Skybuck Flying]

I have a seasonic S12 (?) power supply of 600 watts... it's been in use for
3 years now pretty much every day at least 14 hours per day or so !

So that's 3 x 365 * 14 = 15330 hours already ! and it's still going strong !

It's very quite... I never needed to oil it... I never needed to clean it !
I never have any power failings what so ever !

All I can say is lovely !

(It's been powering my Dream PC )

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[John Doe]

It's possible. They used to make fantastic stuff in the ~500W
and under range, and their power supplies were rated
REALISTICALLY. But, unless they came out with some new stuff
recently, it seemed to me like they kind of gave up on trying to
compete in the over 500W range, leaving that for other brands.
So that would mean that Seasonic is kind of obsolete now. (500W
is great, but puny by current standards)

Attention-seeking bullshit.

The idea that systems use greater and greater power supplies is
nonsense, unless you are unaware of the fact that electronics
become more efficient as they become more powerful. My iPhone is
almost comparable to the first supercomputer, and it runs on a
small lithium-ion battery...

 

[Man-wai Chang to The Door (+MS=32B)]

I did see on one website that says SeaSonic makes all the Corsair power

supplies. Is SeaSonic just pulling out of the market under their own name?

There are a lot of new brands in the market now. The competition is keen...

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[JR Weiss]

Actually, the need for larger power supplies is part reality, but
amplified by PERCEPTION. The last system I built requires a 500W
power supply...as a perfect fit (no room for later expansion). It is
mid-range by today's standards. I put an 800W power supply in it.
Lowest I could have used would have been roughly 650W, as I like to
leave room for expansion. But I couldn't find anything in the 650W
range that I liked (read: good reviews, decent price).

Efficiency can help, but you need your power supply sized correctly
to begin with. Many computer builders are under the impression that
500W power supplies are obsolete. Well, with quad-core processors
and SLI graphics, 500W power supplies really are kind of puny.

But there are many systems still being built today that would be
quite happy with 500W. -Dave

You are correct about "perception," but your perception of that
perception is not complete.

Most (or all) consumers do NOT need quad-core CPUs or SLI graphics.
They THINK they need them because of the aforesaid marketing "nonsense"
and the desire to see lots of bright, gory pictures when playing their
favorite killer games. An SLI or Crossfire rig burning 200-460+ Watts
is absolutely unnecessary -- it ONLY serves to make those ridiculous
games faster and gorier!

Also, many current quad-core CPUs take less power than even recent
single-core CPUs. The single-core Pentium 4s took as much as 115 Watts
at full load. The Phenom II 9xxe series take 65 Watts. Likewise,
newer graphics cards CAN be more efficient than their older
equivalents. The ATI 4670 takes <60 Watts at full load, where their
(older, equivalent performance) HD3850 takes >70 Watts and the even
older, less capable X1950 took 75-125 Watts, depending on version.

Bottom line is that a computer that the average consumer "needs" today
takes less power than an older equivalent, and will be very happy on a
350-550 Watt power supply.

 

[Guest]

Actually, the need for larger power supplies is part reality, but amplified by PERCEPTION. The last system I built requires a

500W power supply...as a perfect fit (no room for later expansion). It is mid-range by today's standards. I put an 800W power
supply in it. Lowest I could have used would have been roughly 650W, as I like to leave room for expansion. But I couldn't find
anything in the 650W range that I liked (read: good reviews, decent price).
OCZ sells excellent supplies in that power range. Many are made
by Fortron.

 

[Dave C.]

Dave is confused by the fact that 5 is midrange between 0 and 10.

No. My own estimate of the power needs of the last system I built was about 600W. I was surprised when I ran one of those online PSU calculator thingies and it came in at just under 500W. I ran a few more. They were all giving estimates over 470W but under 490W. I interpreted that to mean that my system NEEDED a 500W power supply. It is midrange by today's standards.

The reader should understand that babbling about wattage is
practically meaningless, without at least specifying a brand name.

That's true. But The BFG ES-800 is a unique beast. Extremely high quality. Actually two power supplies in one. If anything, 800W is misleading in the opposite direction. It could probably perform as well as some good quality 1KW units.

Except for maybe an SLI video card and the (snipped) weird stuff
you mentioned, I cannot imagine why a gamer would need more than a
500 W power supply, unless he buys junk with inflated wattage
ratings.

For any mid-range system, the smallest power supply you should be buying is 500W, and that assumes a couple of things. First, it better be a very high quality name-brand PSU with strong 12V rail(s). Corsair is one oft-mentioned name brand that is up there, as far as quality goes. Also, it assumes that you will never want to upgrade that system. If you want to allow for future upgrades, you'd better be aiming for 650W or more.

My gaming system does great with a 380 W Antec TruePower II.

There are other things to consider when choosing a power supply. One is loading, the other is capacitor aging. You don't want to run your power supply much beyond 50% of peak power rating. I don't doubt you could run a gaming system off a 380W Antec TruePower II. But that's like running your car engine near redline constantly. Few power supplies could take that kind of abuse and be reliable over the long term. Also, as power supplies get older (beyond a year or two of average use), they start losing their ability to deliver their advertised peak wattage ratings. In simple terms, this means a GOOD quality 500W power supply that is 3 years old might have real wattage ratings equal to a brand new 400W power supply of similar design.

And then there is the upgrade factor. When I built my last system (Mid-range by today's standards) it required a 500W power supply for everything that I was going to put into the base configuration. At build time, I was undecided as to whether I would want to add a second video card later. Another video card could easily draw another 100W of power from the power supply. So I had to adjust for that possibility.

So I stepped up my base configuration power supply from 500W to 650W. Then as I was looking at power supplies in the 650W range (the first component I bought, btw), I happened to stumble upon a BFG ES-800 on sale for less than $100. From all the reviews I've read, I'd be surprised if anything has been released since then that even MATCHES the quality of a BFG ES-800. So when I saw that one on sale for less than $100, I jumped on it. If I hadn't bought the BFG ES-800, I would have probably bought a Corsair 650W. -Dave

 

[John Doe]

Dave is confused by the fact that 5 is midrange between 0 and 10.

The reader should understand that babbling about wattage is
practically meaningless, without at least specifying a brand name.

You are correct about "perception," but your perception of that
perception is not complete.

Most (or all) consumers do NOT need quad-core CPUs or SLI
graphics.

Except for maybe an SLI video card and the (snipped) weird stuff
you mentioned, I cannot imagine why a gamer would need more than a
500 W power supply, unless he buys junk with inflated wattage
ratings.

Also, many current quad-core CPUs take less power than even
recent single-core CPUs.

Bottom line is that a computer that the average consumer "needs"
today takes less power than an older equivalent, and will be
very happy on a 350-550 Watt power supply.

My gaming system does great with a 380 W Antec TruePower II.

 

[Dave C.]

You are full of it, Dave.

Hey, punch mid-range components into one of several online PSU calculators. Unless you are kidding yourself about what constitutes "mid-range" these days, I'd be shocked if your configuration doesn't require at least 450W. -Dave

 

[John Doe]

For any mid-range system, the smallest power supply you should
be buying is 500W

You are full of it, Dave.

 

[Man-wai Chang to The Door (+MS=32B)]

I did see on one website that says SeaSonic makes all the Corsair power

supplies. Is SeaSonic just pulling out of the market under their own name?

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=PSU_Manufacturers

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[Bethany Jones]

I ended up getting an Enermax Pro82+ Bronze 525 watt. According to the
jonnyguru website the PS is made by Enermax. Installed it yesterday and
the thing is amazingly whisper-quiet, much better than a 6 year old Antec
True Power 430w which was rather noisy with its two fans.

 

[Dave C.]

But what did actual measurements say about your power needs? I mean
measuring by something like a Kill-A-Watt (measures input power, but
multiplying its reading by 0.8 should give a number close to the power
supply's output) or with a clamp-on DC amps probe over each set of
wires. I've found that estimation programs tend to overstate the
power needs, and both SilentPCreview.com and XbitLabs.com have
confirmed this. In my case, several years ago, an estimator said my
system needed almost 300W, but the actual maximum consumption was less
than 75W.

It is about 215w loaded with surges over 300w. Which means the PSU calculator estimates of about 490W were right on. You don't want to run a power supply much past 50% peak power on a constant basis. A little below 50% of peak power is ideal for long-term reliability.

In your case, if your system is really drawing maximum of less than 75W, your system could get by on about 250W, allowing for future expansion. But there's more to consider. 250W would be right, if there was only one voltage rail available and one voltage rail in use. Unfortunately, much of the available power in a power supply is on the 5V rail which isn't used much. So the PSU calculator that said you needed almost 300W was correct. The 12V output of a 300W power supply is probably 180W peak. That bodes well for long-term reliability of a system that draws 75W, most of it on the 12V rail.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that if your system draws 200W, that you need a 200W power supply, in other words. -Dave

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Actually, the need for larger power supplies is part reality,
but amplified by PERCEPTION. The last system I built requires
a 500W power supply...as a perfect fit (no room for later
expansion). It is mid-range by today's standards.

My own estimate of the power needs of the last system I built
was about 600W. I was surprised when I ran one of those
online PSU calculator thingies and it came in at just under
500W. I ran a few more. They were all giving estimates
over 470W but under 490W. I interpreted that to mean
that my system NEEDED a 500W power supply. It is
midrange by today's standards.

But what did actual measurements say about your power needs? I mean
measuring by something like a Kill-A-Watt (measures input power, but
multiplying its reading by 0.8 should give a number close to the power
supply's output) or with a clamp-on DC amps probe over each set of
wires. I've found that estimation programs tend to overstate the
power needs, and both SilentPCreview.com and XbitLabs.com have
confirmed this. In my case, several years ago, an estimator said my
system needed almost 300W, but the actual maximum consumption was less
than 75W.

 

[John Doe]

You need to wrap your posts, Dave.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT)

My own estimate of the power needs of the last system I built
was about 600W. I was surprised when I ran one of those
online PSU calculator thingies and it came in at just under
500W. I ran a few more. They were all giving estimates
over 470W but under 490W. I interpreted that to mean
that my system NEEDED a 500W power supply. It is
midrange by today's standards.


It is about 215w loaded with surges over 300w. Which means
the PSU calculator estimates of about 490W were right on.

You don't want to run a power supply much past 50% peak power on
a constant basis. A little below 50% of peak power is ideal for
long-term reliability.

In your case, if your system is really drawing maximum of less
than 75W, your system could get by on about 250W, allowing
for future expansion. But there's more to consider. 250W
would be right, if there was only one voltage rail available
and one voltage rail in use. Unfortunately, much of the
available power in a power supply is on the 5V rail which
isn't used much.

So the PSU calculator that said you needed almost 300W
was correct. The 12V output of a 300W power supply is
probably 180W peak. That bodes well for long-term
reliability of a system that draws 75W, most of it on the
12V rail.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that if your system draws
200W, that you need a 200W power supply, in other words.

The estimator you used overestimated by 2/3 and so was "right on".
OK....

So why did a system nearly 100% identical to mine from Gateway come
with only a 90W PSU that ran fine for ten years? It wasn't a junk
PSU (Newton/Delta) or mobo (built with Sanyo oscons). And neither
system drew most of its power from the +12V but from the +5V. The
+12V was used by nothing but the disk drives.

The general rule isn't to run at a peak of 50% rated max but at an
average under 70-80% of max because above that, the efficiency starts
to drop quite a bit (as coils start to overload?). If the design is
reasonably good, longevity isn't improved by running much below that
because it's limited mostly by the lifespans of the fan and the
capacitors. Bad caps can fail faster at room temperature than good
caps do when kept pretty warm. Bad caps can fail just sitting, unused.