What's good to put out a cpu fire?

[leigon.]

No I didn't catch my CPU on fire, but I can feel the flames

Yes I am a Troll but I think I know one of this groups trolls after
reviewing some older messages.
No I did not come to this group to troll
I really do need some help with my pc
some of the things I said may of been a little off
but I do tend to rush my messages

I believe it is a misunderstanding, anyhow. As people by my ignorance and
lack of detailed discription concluded that I had somehow attached the mobo
directly to the plate.

in my case there is a removable plate with mounds that have screw holes
each and every mound meets with a factoy mounting point on the mobo.
these mounds prevent the mobo from ever contacting a metal surface, except
where intended.

I had read that newer mobos were insulated around the mounting holes and did
not require the standard fibre washers, which were not included anyhow
then someone became frightened and thought I had screwed the mobo to a metal
plane.
I became concerned that I should of installed some fibre washers and
fabricated some of my own out of scrap leather. The mobo did not function
at all in this configuration. When I returned it to its origional state it
did not function. It was not untill I recieved the new psu and had it
installed (after i asked if it could be doa) that the mobo returned to its
origional but not better not working state

I asked a question about some sticky residue on the bottom of the cooler.
The replies suggested that it was the reminants of thermal tape. It was
actually the residue from the oem plastic film that protects the tape.
The cooler did not have the film when It arrived

I was confused again by the thermal tape.
When the system did not function, I removed the cooler to find the tape had
left residue on the die of the cpu. I was alarmed. Someone thought I had
left the plastic film on the cooler and it had melted, and I didn't know any
better.

I cleaned off the majority of the tape turned gunk with a flat craft tool,
and the residue with acetone. At which point I noticed the craft tool by my
hand had nicked the die in a couple of places. Still no-one has answered as
to whether or not that is fatal.

I did turn the system on while there was no paste between the cpu and the
cooler, but for no longer then at the most a minute. Most likly only long
enough to listen for some kind of beep from the BIOS

The video has never come on, so I am still assuming the board or the
processor is at fault. The processor I suspect because the northbridge fan
and cpu fans do spin. I was just trying to feel out some ideas as to how I
can narrow down the posibilities to a single failure. I do not know if i
can get a return on the processor. However when It arived I did notice a
discoloration around the die on the cpu, which I could interperate as
melting (if that kind of thing happenes) or simply where a previous user had
let some paste drip over onto the cpu (which I heard was bad, but the seller
assures it was tested running before shipped)

The PSU i ordered before I really knew what to look for in a psu. I've
always been more of a salvage type rather then a buy it in a box guy, so I
tend to run into a few more snags than the average guy.

I just use this newsgroup to honestly vent my ideas mistakes and
frustrations like anyone else. You should be happy with the amount of
respect I have tried to show here.
Sorry about the immature personal attack btw

 

[JAD]

troll leave...if not .read...

in my case there is a removable plate with mounds that have screw holes
each and every mound meets with a factoy mounting point on the mobo.
these mounds prevent the mobo from ever contacting a metal surface, except
where intended.

I still don't agree with this.
How do your PCI cards line up with the back?
Those dimples are narrow enough as not to contact any part of the MB (except
where the contact is obvious)??.

Ok its been awhile since I dabbled in high end cases. I'm not sure if you
mentioned the exact model, but I have never seen a 'machine adjustment
dimple' that was narrow enough at the top for this.

I have always used pylons (brass)+/- nylon push clips(supporting the areas
around the IDE/floppy/memory slots), haven't used fiber washers since 1992.

 

[John Doe]

See below for header information.

No I didn't catch my CPU on fire, but I can feel the flames
Yes I am a Troll

Your subject line is a troll. Persistently starting new threads is a
troll.

but I think I know one of this groups trolls after
reviewing some older messages.
No I did not come to this group to troll

Then why did you change your identity immediately prior to entering this
group? And why did you just change your identity again?

I really do need some help with my pc
some of the things I said may of been a little off
but I do tend to rush my messages

Nobody has complained about rushed messages. Besides trolling, your
recklessness, lack of conciseness, and long winded rambling is a problem
IMO.

....

 

[Martin]

No I didn't catch my CPU on fire, but I can feel the flames

Yes I am a Troll but I think I know one of this groups trolls after
reviewing some older messages.
No I did not come to this group to troll
I really do need some help with my pc
some of the things I said may of been a little off
but I do tend to rush my messages

I believe it is a misunderstanding, anyhow. As people by my ignorance and
lack of detailed discription concluded that I had somehow attached the
mobo
directly to the plate.

in my case there is a removable plate with mounds that have screw holes
each and every mound meets with a factoy mounting point on the mobo.
these mounds prevent the mobo from ever contacting a metal surface, except
where intended.

I would still use standoffs. The tray can flex and make contact if you only
depend on those raised mounds you're talking about.

I had read that newer mobos were insulated around the mounting holes and
did
not require the standard fibre washers, which were not included anyhow
then someone became frightened and thought I had screwed the mobo to a
metal
plane.
True.


I became concerned that I should of installed some fibre washers and
fabricated some of my own out of scrap leather. The mobo did not function
at all in this configuration. When I returned it to its origional state
it
did not function. It was not untill I recieved the new psu and had it
installed (after i asked if it could be doa) that the mobo returned to its
origional but not better not working state

I asked a question about some sticky residue on the bottom of the cooler.
The replies suggested that it was the reminants of thermal tape. It was
actually the residue from the oem plastic film that protects the tape.
The cooler did not have the film when It arrived

I was confused again by the thermal tape.
When the system did not function, I removed the cooler to find the tape
had
left residue on the die of the cpu. I was alarmed. Someone thought I had
left the plastic film on the cooler and it had melted, and I didn't know
any
better.

I cleaned off the majority of the tape turned gunk with a flat craft tool,
and the residue with acetone. At which point I noticed the craft tool by
my
hand had nicked the die in a couple of places. Still no-one has answered
as
to whether or not that is fatal.

You've probably ruined the CPU.

I did turn the system on while there was no paste between the cpu and the
cooler, but for no longer then at the most a minute. Most likly only long
enough to listen for some kind of beep from the BIOS

You may have fried the CPU.

The video has never come on, so I am still assuming the board or the
processor is at fault. The processor I suspect because the northbridge
fan
and cpu fans do spin. I was just trying to feel out some ideas as to how I
can narrow down the posibilities to a single failure. I do not know if i
can get a return on the processor. However when It arived I did notice a
discoloration around the die on the cpu, which I could interperate as
melting (if that kind of thing happenes) or simply where a previous user
had
let some paste drip over onto the cpu (which I heard was bad, but the
seller
assures it was tested running before shipped)

The PSU i ordered before I really knew what to look for in a psu. I've
always been more of a salvage type rather then a buy it in a box guy, so I
tend to run into a few more snags than the average guy.

You get what you pay for...

 

[David Maynard]

troll leave...if not .read...




I still don't agree with this.
How do your PCI cards line up with the back?
Those dimples are narrow enough as not to contact any part of the MB (except
where the contact is obvious)??.

Ok its been awhile since I dabbled in high end cases. I'm not sure if you
mentioned the exact model, but I have never seen a 'machine adjustment
dimple' that was narrow enough at the top for this.

I understand your skepticism but I have one. Stamped, threaded, dimples in
the plate. Works fine.

I have always used pylons (brass)+/- nylon push clips(supporting the areas
around the IDE/floppy/memory slots), haven't used fiber washers since 1992.

Same here, except for the case with the stamped dimples. Well, and except
for the case where the standoffs are stamped and folded into a 'U' that you
squeeze together at the bottom to fit into 'slot holes' in the mobo tray.

 

[John Doe]

True.

Maybe Microstar International (MSI) is an exception. The mounting holes on
my new mainboards are intended to be ground points. I just proved that
using a continuity checker. When small outline integrated circuit chip
(SOIC) surface mount (SMT) device ground pins on the mainboard are
connected to the case, you know the case is used for mainboard ground. Also
telling is the fact that there are raised metal/solder bumps on the
mounting holes which go to the case ground, and mainboard standoffs are
made of electricity conducting metal.

 

[John Doe]

True.

The mounting holes on new Microstar International (MSI) mainboards are
intended to be electrically connected to a case. The case is used for
mainboard ground. There is no insulation around the mounting holes.
Instead, there are raised electricity conducting metal/solder bumps
which help make contact with the electricity conducting metal mainboard
standoffs which are firmly connected to the metal case.

 

[Martin]

Maybe Microstar International (MSI) is an exception. The mounting holes on
my new mainboards are intended to be ground points. I just proved that
using a continuity checker. When small outline integrated circuit chip
(SOIC) surface mount (SMT) device ground pins on the mainboard are
connected to the case, you know the case is used for mainboard ground.
Also
telling is the fact that there are raised metal/solder bumps on the
mounting holes which go to the case ground, and mainboard standoffs are
made of electricity conducting metal.

The motherboard traces are now protected (insulated) from coming into
contact with the screw head and shorting, so you no longer need the paper
washers.

 

[John Doe]

....


The motherboard traces are now protected (insulated) from coming into
contact with the screw head and shorting, so you no longer need the
paper washers.

Are we talking about the same thing?
Motherboard traces include ground. Ground contacts the screw head and the
mainboard standoff, and shorts to the case. If you put a paper washer
between the mainboard and the screw head, you will insulate what should be
contact. It probably also has contact on the underside of the mainboard
which shorts to the mainboard standoff. I don't doubt that a system
functions without shorting the motherboard mounting holes to the case. But
the point where the screw head contacts is a solder coated circle around
the mounting hole which is connected probably to most component ground
pins (including surface mount devices). By design the mounting hole area
is supposed to short to the screw head. At least that's the way it is on
my mainboards.

 

[Martin]

Are we talking about the same thing?
Motherboard traces include ground. Ground contacts the screw head and the
mainboard standoff, and shorts to the case. If you put a paper washer
between the mainboard and the screw head, you will insulate what should be
contact. It probably also has contact on the underside of the mainboard
which shorts to the mainboard standoff. I don't doubt that a system
functions without shorting the motherboard mounting holes to the case. But
the point where the screw head contacts is a solder coated circle around
the mounting hole which is connected probably to most component ground
pins (including surface mount devices). By design the mounting hole area
is supposed to short to the screw head. At least that's the way it is on
my mainboards.

We are talking about different things.
Before the current design, motherboards were designed differently and you
needed those paper washers to prevent shorting the traces, but now they have
those metal eyelets to prevent the screws from shorting the traces that you
do not want to ground. This is also why you want the motherboard on
standoffs, to prevent the traces from shorting on the motherboard tray. So
like I said in my previous message, the traces you want protected from the
screw head are now insulated from coming into contact with it.

 

[John Doe]

I wrote:

<snip>

Sorry for the additional reply to the same post. It was canceled except by
Google.

 

[Gary]

We are talking about different things.
Before the current design, motherboards were designed differently and you
needed those paper washers to prevent shorting the traces, but now they have
those metal eyelets to prevent the screws from shorting the traces that you
do not want to ground. This is also why you want the motherboard on
standoffs, to prevent the traces from shorting on the motherboard tray. So
like I said in my previous message, the traces you want protected from the
screw head are now insulated from coming into contact with it.

On a more humorous note I once pushed on the edge of a motherboard (
for some reason that escapes me now ) while the computer was powered
up and the edge of the MB touched the metal back plane. The CRT went
blank and I thought I had ruined the MB but all it did was reboot and
I was back in business. I would heartily recommend against doing this
as I was pretty lucky.

 

[leigon.]

Ok, so I do have a few bad habits I brought with me from elsewhere
I'l admit that

It's definatly no high end case (does everyones atx pse almost cover the
cooling unit on the cpu?)

you know what case I liked? It was an old Dell Optiplex, and I forget
exactly how it worked, but it was hinged conviently

there is a lot of flex in the mobo mounting plate, but the board does not
have any holes that line up with anything but a mound. What would I of done
if one of the mounds was in an inconvienient place I wonder...

I believe the CPU was doa, and I damaged it further making it unreturnable I
am sure

i don't need the washers, the board should be screwed to the mounds allowing
the board to ground to the head of the screw (the mobo has the soldered
bumps around the hole) correct?

I promise I will leave you guys alone
for a while

 

[David Maynard]

Ok, so I do have a few bad habits I brought with me from elsewhere
I'l admit that

It's definatly no high end case (does everyones atx pse almost cover the
cooling unit on the cpu?)

If you mean the type that has the PSU mounted on it's side, rather than
horizontal across the top of the case, that was a common socket 7 layout to
keep the case shorter, but also a bit wider. Pleeeeenty of room for the
kinds of heatsinks used on those things. I'd imagine they were also used
for socket 370 and you actually *can* get a standard slot-1 cart to 'just'
make it, but not the 'typical' slotket because they're taller. It would be
a real problem for the larger heatsinks of today.

That's the layout of the one I have with the stamped mounting 'domes' on a
slide tray.

 

[Zotin Khuma]

troll leave...if not .read...


I still don't agree with this.
How do your PCI cards line up with the back?
Those dimples are narrow enough as not to contact any part of the MB (except
where the contact is obvious)??.

I've used many such cases. In fact, I just completed building a new
computer an hour ago using a case with just that type of mobo
standoff. The dimple is a little over half an inch wide at the base,
but tapers so that it's much smaller at the top where it meets the
bottom of the mobo. It's wider than the usual brass standoff, but
there's still plenty of space around each mounting point.

I don't know if there's a standard spec for minimum radial clearance
around each hole for non-grounded solder points, but on the mobos I've
used there's no danger of accidental electrical contact after it's
been firmly screwed on.

Not only PCI and AGP cards, but also the onboard back ports like LAN,
VGA, parallel, serial, audio, etc. line up with their respective
holes.

As it seems some of us here have not yet come across this type of
case, I compared the height of the dimple with some spare brass
standoffs. The dimple on the case I have on hand is slightly shorter
than the brass standoff, but there's ample clearance between mobo and
base plate.

Ok its been awhile since I dabbled in high end cases. I'm not sure if you
mentioned the exact model, but I have never seen a 'machine adjustment
dimple' that was narrow enough at the top for this.

Actually, my cases are not high-end. They're generally US $20-30 types
*with* PSUs.

 

[JAD]

throw a brand name out there
I would like to see an example, for future reference.
And All mainboards can be used?
he describes them as 'mounds' I don't think this is the same thing
your talking about.

 

[David Maynard]

throw a brand name out there
I would like to see an example, for future reference.
And All mainboards can be used?
he describes them as 'mounds' I don't think this is the same thing
your talking about.

The ones in my case do look like 'mounds' or, as I call them, 'domes': 5/8
inch diameter at the base plate. They're not 'round' all the way across the
top, though. At the center they nipple up for the flat and threaded hole.
The entire mobo tray (with I/O plate and PCI slots) slides out the rear.

Sorry I can't say what the brand is as it's a junker (near perfect
condition, actually, once I cleaned it up) I just happened to find tossed
out somewhere and there's not a single identifying mark on it.

Don't know about "all" mainboards but it's full ATX size, with side mounted
PSU, and I've had both an Abit BH6 and, now, a Compaq mATX socket 370
Celeron mobo in it.

 

[Andy]

http://store1.yimg.com/I/dealsonic_1818_23208942

throw a brand name out there
I would like to see an example, for future reference.
And All mainboards can be used?
he describes them as 'mounds' I don't think this is the same thing
your talking about.

 

[Zotin Khuma]

throw a brand name out there
I would like to see an example, for future reference.

I live in a remote corner of India so the brands I can get here may
not have much relevance to most, but here goes -

The case (we usually call them 'cabinets' in India) I'm using in my
office and the one I built yesterday are both by Best IT World (India)
- www.enteriworld.com . The first one is their model "Crown" and the
second is "Grabit". Nice external finish but the metal is of rather
thin gauge. They call their products iBox, iKey, iBall, iSound and so
on.

I've also used cases by other manufacturers with the same type of mobo
standoff, but don't have any with me right now so I can't say which of
them have such standoffs, sorry. Other brands I've used extensively
are by Kobian (brand name "Mercury")- www.kobian.com and Frontech, so
some of their models probably use such standoffs.

And All mainboards can be used?

I can't guarantee that *all* motherboards will mount without shorting
but I'm inclined to think there won't be any problem with standard ATX
and mATX mobos.

he describes them as 'mounds' I don't think this is the same thing
your talking about.

'mounds' probably describes them better. I called them 'nipples' in my
first post but changed it to 'dimples' after others started calling
them that. To me, 'dimple' suggests a depression whereas 'mound' or
'nipple' indicates a protusion - but then I started speaking English
only after I entered college outside my state... . The vertical side
plate is pressed inward at each mounting point so that it rises in an
approximately conical shape.

 

[David Maynard]

http://store1.yimg.com/I/dealsonic_1818_23208942

Yep. Those sure look an awful lot like the ones in my case.