What are the baest manufacturers/models of PSU?

D

dsads

Hi,

considering exchanging my case 350 psu for a better one. This is
because the 12V + rail is showing to be overcharged by the mboard
monitor to 12.5V. I think this could have something to do with my pc
crashing as too much current is being drown from the psu.

Please advise whether to get a new more powerful psu?

thanks
 
L

Lane Lewis

Hi,

considering exchanging my case 350 psu for a better one. This is
because the 12V + rail is showing to be overcharged by the mboard
monitor to 12.5V. I think this could have something to do with my pc
crashing as too much current is being drown from the psu.

Please advise whether to get a new more powerful psu?

thanks

Zalman 400w, gets good reviews.
 
R

Ralph Mowery

considering exchanging my case 350 psu for a better one. This is
because the 12V + rail is showing to be overcharged by the mboard
monitor to 12.5V. I think this could have something to do with my pc
crashing as too much current is being drown from the psu.

Please advise whether to get a new more powerful psu?

Don't worry too much about the 12 volts lines. They are used for very
little on most computers. If the voltages are reported to be slightly over
that is not the problem. It is when the 5 volt line is dropping too low
that you need ot worry about the supply. Most voltages reported back are
not that accurate anyway.
You need a good digital voltmeter to really see what the voltages are doing.
 
D

dsads

This means that if the 12 V rail is showing a 12.5 V then it is
actually too much power there.

On the 3V &5 V rails I've noticed around 2.8V & 4.7V respectively.

Is this fine?

thanks
 
S

Shep©

Hi,

considering exchanging my case 350 psu for a better one. This is
because the 12V + rail is showing to be overcharged by the mboard
monitor to 12.5V. I think this could have something to do with my pc
crashing as too much current is being drown from the psu.

Please advise whether to get a new more powerful psu?

thanks

In all the systems I've built(and that's quite a few)I've never yet
seen a perfect score on All volt rails reported :/
If the system works,ignore reports :)



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
email shepATpartyheld.de
Free songs download,
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
 
L

Lane Lewis

Ralph Mowery said:
Don't worry too much about the 12 volts lines. They are used for very
little on most computers. If the voltages are reported to be slightly over
that is not the problem. It is when the 5 volt line is dropping too low
that you need ot worry about the supply. Most voltages reported back are
not that accurate anyway.
You need a good digital voltmeter to really see what the voltages are
doing.

The 12 volt line is used for hard drives, cdroms, fans, and a few other
accessories. It also is extremely important for any P4 system since the P4
itself is run off the 12v rail.

Lane
 
L

Lane Lewis

This means that if the 12 V rail is showing a 12.5 V then it is
actually too much power there.

On the 3V &5 V rails I've noticed around 2.8V & 4.7V respectively.

Is this fine?

thanks

Motherboard voltage readings are unreliable and do not tell the whole
story, the best way to protect yourself is to buy a reputable name brand
powersupply. Go to Anandtech or Tom's Hardware and read the reviews.

Lane
 
K

kony

This means that if the 12 V rail is showing a 12.5 V then it is
actually too much power there.

On the 3V &5 V rails I've noticed around 2.8V & 4.7V respectively.

Is this fine?

thanks

NO, it is not fine... is what I expected but refrained from comment
without further details.

It is not normal for a power supply's 12V rail to be over 12.3V.
Plenty of people will claim "but it's within specs", which IS true,
but a modern power supply, even a very cheap piece of junk, can
regulate itself well enough that it's not off by anywhere near that
10% spec, ever, unless there is a problem and/or it's not appropriate
for the system.

By appropriate for the system I mean that being lower true capacity,
it "might" be workable (though still a poor choice) for a lower-speed
P4 or "some" Athlons using 12V for CPU, since those systems would have
a more evenly balanced draw from all power rails. That's not an
endorsement of the P4 though, just another reason to avoid cheap and
inadequate power supplies.

When (most) power supplies sense a low 3V or 5V rail, they increase
the switching duration to increase the voltage... this is a normally
occuring event. This adjustement raises the 3V/5V voltage, but the
12V also goes up. In other words, having the 12V at 12.5V isn't in
itself a problem, but is a symptom of the primary problem, that your
power supply is inadequate on it's 3V/5V rails, that it's trying to
compensate enough but can't.

The power supply needs replaced. Chose a name-brand, preferribly in
the 350-400W range. Currently Sparkle/Fortron are the best value, but
Antec, PC Power & Cooling, Zalman, Delta, etc, also make good units.

If the present power supply IS a known-good name brand 350W, you
either have a very power-hungry system or some other problem (in which
case more details would help). If it's just a normal system and a
generic power supply, a name-brand >=350W should suffice.
 
C

CBFalconer

dsads said:
This means that if the 12 V rail is showing a 12.5 V then it is
actually too much power there.

On the 3V &5 V rails I've noticed around 2.8V & 4.7V respectively.

Is this fine?

Please don't toppost.

This may well be an indication of overloading. The central
regulator, before the transformer, is increasing output to try to
boost the 5 and 3.3 V lines, but can't since they are overloaded.
However the 12 V line is supplied from a different winding on the
same transformer, and is not overloaded, and thus gets too high.
 
D

dsads

Hi,

MY PC: asus a7v8x; barton 2500 xp; vulcan 9 cooler; 512 333 ddr
kingston; 4x dvd rw; gforce 4 440m (with fan) ; 2 case fans.

Nothing overclocked jet. But in the future plan to o/c to 2.2 ghz and
push a little (+30%) the gforce 4.

Do you think this will require additional power increase?

Regards
 
K

kony

Hi,

MY PC: asus a7v8x; barton 2500 xp; vulcan 9 cooler; 512 333 ddr
kingston; 4x dvd rw; gforce 4 440m (with fan) ; 2 case fans.

Nothing overclocked jet. But in the future plan to o/c to 2.2 ghz and
push a little (+30%) the gforce 4.

Do you think this will require additional power increase?

Regards

I think it's safe to say that if it's already crashing, overclocking
can only exacerbate the problem.

Replace the power supply, preferribly one with a Combined 3V + 5V
rating of 200W or higher, of course in a name-brand so you can trust
the ratings (except Enermax, one of the few high-priced name-brands
which still overrates the wattage).


Dave
 
G

Guest

dsads said:
This means that if the 12 V rail is showing a 12.5 V then it is
actually too much power there.

On the 3V &5 V rails I've noticed around 2.8V & 4.7V respectively.

Is this fine?

2.8V is 15% low, 4.7% is 6% low, and the ATX standard allows a
tolerance of +-5%, but 12.5V is only 4% high and within tolerance.
But I wouldn't have any confidence in those measurements because if
the +3.3V really was 15% low, the computer would probably not work
well at all, and motherboard voltage measurement hardware is so
notorious for inaccuracy that any abnormal readings must be verified
with a digital voltage meter.

I believe your Asus a7v8x motherboard consumes most of its power form
the +5V, making the supply's combined power capacity, the measure of
the maximum power available from the +3.3V and +5V simultaneously, an
important factor, and a 2.8 GHz system may need as much as 180W of
such combined power. If your motherboard doesn't have a 4-pin power
connector, either a square one (ATX12V) or rectangular (disk drive
power connector), then its +12V amp capacity doesn't have to be very
high, even if several disk drives have to be powered. On the other
hand, a motherboard that does have such a conector may drain as much
as 10A from the +12V, and the power supply for it should be capable of
putting out at least 15A, maybe 17A if at least 4 disk drives will be
used. But such a motherboard won't need a high combined power capacity
at all.

Most 300-350W and larger power supplies are rated to provide at least
180W combined power, but unfortunately manufacturers' ratings vary
widely in truthfulness. Nor can you rely upon reviewer because the
vast majority of them are done incompetently and consist of little
more than measurements of the voltages with nothing but a computer to
serve as the load (of only 200W, ridiculous when the power supply is
rated for 500W). Most reviewers simply don't have the know-how or
resources to run proper tests, but even Anandtech, a relatively
affluent web site, is guilty of publishing some of the worst power
supply reviews. Some of the few web sites that have done halfway
decent testing are www.tomshardware.com, www.silentpcreview.com
(detailed explanation of testing), www.nordichardware.com, and, in the
past, www.tweaktown.com (they used to test to 110% of rated maximums,
but now they're as bad as anyone else), and maybe www.computerbase.de
(I don't read German). Any review that doesn't include amp
measurements should be ignored.

The best choices in power supplies are probably FSP (Fortron, Source,
Powerman, Sparkle, Aopen, Hi-Q, Trend), Antec Truepower (Smartpower
and Solution Series are good but a notch below), PC Power & Cooling,
HEC (Heroichi, Compucase), Channel Well Technology (Leadpower)
CWT-ppp-Axx series (same as Truepower; CWT-ppp-Bxx are Smartpower or
Solution Series; others apparently are quite a bit worse), and hard to
find brands sold primarily to large OEMs, such as Astec, Zippy-Emacs,
Win-tact (these 2 and FSP make the cores of PC Power & Cooling's
products), Lite-On, NMB, Newton, and Delta (Acer). Many of the
ultra-quiet power supplies are modified FSP designs.

Some second-rate but perfectly good power suppies include Sirtec
(Vantec, Thermaltake, Highpower, and some others), Enermax
(Wavesonic), Enlight, and Enhance (Freeway).

Brands to avoid include Leadman (Powmax, Raidmax, Robanton), although
it's actually the best of this group, Q-tec (not to be confused with
Q-Technology, which are high quality products based on FSP products),
and any of the numerous Deer brands, such as Eagle, Mustang, Hyena,
Foxconn, Foxlink, Codegen, L&C, Austin, Allied, Powerstar, Logic,
Duro, and maybe Mercury. Any power supply selling for an unusually
low price can't be trusted with your computer and data, unless it's an
odd surplus product. Also avoid brands sold mostly for their
decorative features (aluminum case, lighted fans, braided cables) or
that have more than 2 fans (extra fans are mostly decorative, not good
design).

In most cases there's no need to spend more than about $40 for a top
quality power supply, such as a Fortron or Sparkle from Newegg.com or
Directron.com, but for less than $75 they have 500W models that can
run anything.
 
D

dsads

Had a look at my PSU and its made by Sunny Technology Co. Ltd.
Its says Switching Power. What does that mean? What's FSP ?

Thanks for the detailed answer of good PSU manufacturers. This will be
my guide for a long time!!!

Regards
 
L

Lane Lewis

Had a look at my PSU and its made by Sunny Technology Co. Ltd.
Its says Switching Power. What does that mean? What's FSP ?

Thanks for the detailed answer of good PSU manufacturers. This will be
my guide for a long time!!!

Regards

Sunny tech is a Chinese case manufacture that also makes power supplies,
Read some reviews on power supplies and replace the old one. When you do buy
a new one make sure it's in a retail box and not an OEM model, that way you
will have instructions and the full warranty from the manufacture.

Lane
 
G

Guest

dsads said:
Had a look at my PSU and its made by Sunny Technology Co. Ltd.
Its says Switching Power. What does that mean? What's FSP ?

FSP is Fortron-Source, www.fortron-source.com and
www.sparklepower.com, the maker of several brands of very good power
supplies (I forgot to list their Powertech brand).

I'm not familiar with Sunny Technology products, but all PCs use
switching-mode power supplies because they're far smaller and lighter
than linear-mode supplies of the same capacities. In a switching
supply, the voltage is rapidly turned completely on and off to
regulate the output, and the greater the percentage of time that the
voltage is on, the greater the voltage output. This is efficient
because there's no wasted power when the voltage is 100% on or 100%
off. In comparison, linear supplies regulate the output voltage the
way a car's speed is regulated by applying the brakes, and in both
cases heat is generated, thereby wasting power. But in practice,
switching-mode supplies for PCs are only about 65-80% efficient, and
it's possible to match this with linear supplies. But linear supplies
use transformers that operate at just 60 Hz, while switching supplies
run their transformers at roughly 1,000 times that frequency, allowing
much, much smaller transformers, about 3 cubic inches, while a 60 Hz
transformer would have to be bigger than a whole ATX supply.
 
G

Guest

Some of the few web sites that have done halfway decent
testing are www.tomshardware.com, www.silentpcreview.com
(detailed explanation of testing), www.nordichardware.com,
and, in the past, www.tweaktown.com

Correction: www.nordichardware.com no longer does proper testing of
power supplies, and in their most recent review,
www.nordichardware.com/reviews/PSU/2003/roundup2/, they merely
measured voltages while the supplies were under relatively light load
(XP1700+, Geforce 5800, 3 HDs).
 
S

S.Boardman

kony said:
I think it's safe to say that if it's already crashing, overclocking
can only exacerbate the problem.

Replace the power supply, preferribly one with a Combined 3V + 5V
rating of 200W or higher, of course in a name-brand so you can trust
the ratings (except Enermax, one of the few high-priced name-brands
which still overrates the wattage).
Hello again. I have a similar set up to the poster above, on a KT333 chipset
XP2500, currently two PATA drives in a raid, plus a DVD-ROM. I couldn't get
the Fortron/Sparkle 400W PSU in the end. Instead I got an Antec Truepower
430W. How far can I push this? I too have two case fans and a GeForce 4 MX.
My RAM CAS is stable at 2. I plan to slower increase the FSB above 166, and
later get a much better graphics card. And I must get round to adding
another PATA drive to copy the RAID drives. What will that do to my power
consumption?
 

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