Vista versus linux Ubuntu

[Kevin Young]

On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:50:25 +0000, Kevin Young wrote:


LOL! And a week after you choose SuSE, Microsoft partners with Novell.

Don't you hate it when the universe plays practical jokes on you?

Isn't that the truth! Not sure what to think of the partnering move at
this point. SLED is a pretty solid distribution but a lot of Linux
enthusiasts seem to be upset with Novell's move.

Microsoft's closed-source model is coming back to bite them. They had the
same problem with drivers moving from 32 to 64 bits: They're dependent on
hardware manufacturers to provide drivers, but the manufacturers don't
want to provide drivers for older hardware when they could instead
leverage the situation to increase hardware sales.

Yes but SLED could improve in this area also. What I've observed is
that time usually resolves a lot of the hardware compatibility issues on
both platforms. Likely because orphaned hardware is abandoned on the
Windows side and someone eventually writes drivers on the Linux side.

AFAIC, GUI's hit their height of functionality with the look and feel in
the mid-90's and have been going downhill ever since!

I don't agree. I think Vista's look it pretty slick but don't think it
really adds anything in terms of productivity. The increased hardware
requirements and slight performance hit might in fact be a disadvantage.

I'm curious about this one. Is this because (as a consequence of the
DMCA) you have to add media players aftermarket, or did you do that and
just find the open source media players not to your satisfaction?

Windows Media Center is why I rated Windows the winner here. While you
can use apps to view TV in all the platforms, Media Center with it's
integrated television guide, slick interface and other features is ahead
in my opinion.

 

[arachnid]

Isn't that the truth! Not sure what to think of the partnering move at
this point. SLED is a pretty solid distribution but a lot of Linux
enthusiasts seem to be upset with Novell's move.

There may be trouble ahead, but there's plenty of time to figure out
what's really going on and decide what to do about it. Most of the people
you're hearing from are journalists and bloggers trying to drum up
business, and hotheaded hobbyists blowing off steam. Worst case, SLED and
OpenSuSE will fork and everyone but Novell will continue on as if nothing
had happened.

Yes but SLED could improve in this area also. What I've observed is
that time usually resolves a lot of the hardware compatibility issues on
both platforms. Likely because orphaned hardware is abandoned on the
Windows side and someone eventually writes drivers on the Linux side.

Oooooh, and we Linux users so love that orphaned Windows hardware! You can
do a lot of great things with Linux even on an old 450 Mhz motherboard
with only 256 megs of RAM and a 20 gig HD. Everyone's wetting their
britches over all the multi-ghz machines that are going to trickle down
thanks to Vista's hardware demands! )

But as far as overall compatibility, there is no reason in the world that
Linux should be 100% compatible with every piece of hardware that was
designed only for an entirely different OS and uses secret API's, hidden
specifications, and copyrighted, closed-source firmware. It's taken a
superhuman effort to make Linux work with *most* Windows hardware and
that's about as good as it's going to get until the hardware manufacturers
become fully cooperative. I'm guessing that'll happen somewhere between 5%
and 10% desktop share. The problem is for manufacturers to know when we
get there. How do you determine how many copies of an OS are installed,
when anyone can make as many copies as they want and pass them on to
anyone else, who can do the same?

I don't agree. I think Vista's look it pretty slick but don't think it
really adds anything in terms of productivity. The increased hardware
requirements and slight performance hit might in fact be a disadvantage.

I don't mind increased hardware requirements so long as they don't get
ridiculous. What's annoying is that once it becomes possible to do
something, software developers feel compelled to do it no matter how
ridiculous it is or how much it gets in your way.

(Old rant, goes way back to the DOS days when programmers discovered the
awesome ability to make a PC's speaker beep, so of course everything you
did had to result in a loud "BEEP!" just to be sure you knew that you had
started a program, selected a menu entry, pressed a key, saved a file,
aborted an operation, exited the program...)

Windows Media Center is why I rated Windows the winner here. While you
can use apps to view TV in all the platforms, Media Center with it's
integrated television guide, slick interface and other features is ahead
in my opinion.

How's that compare to MythTV's guide? Screenshots here, and the guide
images start about 6 rows down:

http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures

 

[ML]

BTW, just so you know, HP has better printer support for Linux than Vista at
the moment.......

 

[ML]

Oh, and that includes HP's MFP and network scanners as well. Try to ask HP
for drivers or software for Vista....... And in case you didn't remember,
it took HP more than 1 year to put out drivers for Windows x64........

 

[ML]

On the contrary, I discovered that with wine and cedega (sp?), I can use
MOST of the software and games for windows under my ubuntu....... And that
includes MS office

The problem that I have with ubuntu (I am also testing 6.1 due to the
restrictive Vista EULA), is the lack of WM5 support.......

 

[Guest]

I tried to do a dual boot with Ubuntu, and I could get Ubuntu, but it didn't
play well with Vista. Had a horrible time with it.
But I did try using Ubuntu for a while, my experience wasn't all smiles and
puppies. Every time I loaded Ubuntu, my video would be offset, I never could
figure out how to install a new program, other than installing it like I used
to in my older version of Mandrake.
It was no easier, to me than earlier distros. and though Ubuntu claimed to
be "windows User Friendly" I didn't see it. If someone doesn't know anything
about Linux, and is not willing to put the time in to learn it, I wouldn't
suggest using a Linux OS. They may make it look like windows, but it does not
work like windows.

Linux has it's place, and I respect it's place. Moreover, I respect the
Ubuntu creators for what they are doing, they are working in a good
direction. But they are not there yet. If the Linux creators (Which ever
Distro) are wanting to take a real bite out of the Windows users, they will
have to make their distro every bit as user friendly, accessible, and easy to
run as windows. Moreover, they will have to work closer with hardware and
software developers.
Major linux issues are the lack of compatible drivers, lack of software
applications and games, and ease of use. They are working towards the
solution, but they haven't got it yet.

But I do have high hopes for the little penguin who could.

 

[arachnid]

I tried to do a dual boot with Ubuntu, and I could get Ubuntu, but it
didn't play well with Vista. Had a horrible time with it. But I did try
using Ubuntu for a while, my experience wasn't all smiles and puppies.
Every time I loaded Ubuntu, my video would be offset,

Although they make a herculean effort to be compatible with as much
Windows hardware as it can, OSS developers are under no obligation to make
Linux compatible with undocumented Windows hardware using secret API's and
proprietary closed-source firmware. If you want to use Linux, you'll have
to obtain hardware that supports open standards.

I never could figure out how to install a new program, other than
installing it like I used to in my older version of Mandrake.

The OLPC project has chosen Linux for tens of millions of children's
computers, and yet it's too complicated for you?

It was no easier, to me than earlier distros. and though Ubuntu claimed to
be "windows User Friendly" I didn't see it. If someone doesn't know
anything about Linux, and is not willing to put the time in to learn it,
I wouldn't suggest using a Linux OS.

I don't suggest Linux to anyone who isn't willing to put the same amount
of effort into learning Linux that they expended learning Windows.

Linux has it's place, and I respect it's place. Moreover, I respect the
Ubuntu creators for what they are doing, they are working in a good
direction. But they are not there yet. If the Linux creators (Which ever
Distro) are wanting to take a real bite out of the Windows users, they
will have to make their distro every bit as user friendly, accessible,
and easy to run as windows. Moreover, they will have to work closer with
hardware and software developers.

Major linux issues are the lack of compatible drivers, lack of software
applications and games, and ease of use. They are working towards the
solution, but they haven't got it yet.

Nonsense. Right now Linux has more 64-bit drivers and more 64-bit
applications than any version of Windows. Even at the 32-bit level it
supports more hardware than Vista will upon release. And even
Windows-oriented magazines and websites are generally ranking Ubuntu equal
to or better than Vista in usability and user-friendliness.

 

[Robert Moir]

Or mine passing over yours. Unless you're wealthy, price is very much
a factor in considering the "availability" of applications to fit
one's list of needs.

You know, if you really *need* a space shuttle for some reason, then no
amount of talking about what you can actually afford is going to make a pair
of rollerskates a satisfactory alternative.

Your requirements determine what you need far more than price - not only
because more expensive doesn't automatically mean better. Don't confuse
"prefer" and "really like" with "need". If you can get by without something
then you didn't "need" it.

 

[MicroFox]

I think those millions of children will learn linux so well that they will
change computing forever when they reach their teens- early twenties.....
those poor kids will be the new generation that will do all the innovations
the fat white men
with trillions of dollars cant (gates)

 

[arachnid]

You know, if you really *need* a space shuttle for some reason, then no
amount of talking about what you can actually afford is going to make a
pair of rollerskates a satisfactory alternative.

No, but whether you can afford that space shuttle determines whether it's
really "available" for you to purchase. And note that we were talking
about how price affects availability here and throughout this thread, not
quibbling over what one really means by the word, "need".

 

[arachnid]

I think those millions of children will learn linux so well that they will
change computing forever when they reach their teens- early twenties.....
those poor kids will be the new generation that will do all the
innovations the fat white men with trillions of dollars cant (gates)

I wouldn't put it beyond them. Kids take to computers like fish to water.

 

[Jeppe]

BTW, just so you know, HP has better printer support for Linux than Vista at
the moment.......

Wow, a single company. I was talking about things in broader scene.

 

[MicroFox]

thats the real reason gates made fun of the project....
What an ass... he looked down on this effort to help all these children.
He should be ashamed of himself.. what a disgrace.

I bet it wouldnt be that way if they were running a lite version of windows
on those
small laptops.

he knows that windows is in trouble... and unix is the future

Thats why MS is trying to find ways to partner with linux companies (see
novell).

 

[Mike]

he knows that windows is in trouble... and unix is the future

Unix isn't the future of anything. It's the past.

Mike

 

[Nathaniel L. Walker]

I don't agree. I think Vista's look it pretty slick but don't think it

really adds anything in terms of productivity. The increased hardware
requirements and slight performance hit might in fact be a disadvantage.

I have no clue why they would make an OS that demanded so much of
the computer.

Vista will drive up computer prices, I think.

I won't be upgrading for another 1.5 to 2 years. My computer is only 1.5
years old and XP Pro works fine enough.

- Nate.

 

[Nathaniel L. Walker]

Next version of Windows will require Mainframe hardware.

The hardware requirements seem to be increasing exponentially.

- Nate.

 

[Nina DiBoy]

thats the real reason gates made fun of the project....
What an ass... he looked down on this effort to help all these children.
He should be ashamed of himself.. what a disgrace.

No kidding! Bill Gates - Remember those ominous buildings you would see
sometimes, the insane asylums with the metal grates on the windows?
This is what Bill gates has done to Windows, in Vista he put Gates on
all the Windows!

Philanthopist my arse!