Vista...? Proceed with caution!

[ChrisM]

Not sure how much of this is true, but I believe most of it is, and even if
only 1/4 is true, it's enough to make me think twice or even thrice about
going anywhere near Vista for a long time yet...

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Executive Summary
-----------------

Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order
to
provide content protection for so-called "premium content", typically HD
data
from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs
considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability,
technical
support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not
only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the
protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever
come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for
example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This
document
analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral
damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry.

Executive Executive Summary

 

[ChrisM]

In message %[email protected],

Not sure how much of this is true, but I believe most of it is, and
even if only 1/4 is true, it's enough to make me think twice or even
thrice about going anywhere near Vista for a long time yet...

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Executive Summary
-----------------

Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in
order to
provide content protection for so-called "premium content", typically
HD data
from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs
considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability,
technical
support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues
affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the
effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and
software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's
not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh
computer or on a Linux server). This document
analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the
collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry.

Executive Executive Summary

UPDATE: Sorry, I just realised that this report has already been discussed
in at least one of these groups. Apologies to those who have already seen
it, but ma

 

[Peter Foldes]

Att: Crossposted


Chris

Old news and was already posted. Also there was no need to crosspost this

 

[ChrisM]

In message (e-mail address removed),

Att: Crossposted


Chris

Old news and was already posted. Also there was no need to crosspost
this

Hi, yes, apologies, I did scan through the postings first and missed the
references to it before. Even so, it might be of interest to anyone that is
new to the group or who missed it first time round.

As far as the cross-posting though, I only posted it to 3 groups, and
believe it is relevant to all three.

 

[Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]]

Apple also uses DRM in their software, how you think they got Hollywood and
the Music Industry to sell their stuff through through the iTunes Store?
Also, Apple also locks into its own DRM technology for example the
proprietary AAC codec the iPod uses.

 

[Alias]

Apple also uses DRM in their software, how you think they got Hollywood and
the Music Industry to sell their stuff through through the iTunes Store?
Also, Apple also locks into its own DRM technology for example the
proprietary AAC codec the iPod uses.

I guess that leaves Linux.

Alias

 

[Troy McClure]

not really. doesnt have too much to do with the os. its the file type and
media thats involved

 

[ChrisM]

Hi Andre,

I don't really understand your point. I know that DRM rears its ugly head in
many places these days, and certainly not least Apple and iPod etc. However,
the effects of this are fairly minimal, and can be fairly easily go around
if required (eg by using MP3s and not AAC files, and using AllOfMP3 rather
than iTunes)

What struck me though from that report was the depth and width to which DRM
is imbedded into Vista and the fact that you will be prevented from doing
certain things with DRM protected stuff even if your intentions are pure,
and the amount of extra effort that is going to have to be put into writing
device driver and the amount of system overheads that are going to be
created in an attempt to stop people from copying protected media. All it is
going to do is inconvenience and cost innocent people. Those that want to
make illegal copies are always going to find ways of doing it...

Chris.

In message (e-mail address removed),

 

[MICHAEL]

Apple might be getting ready to get a good smack down.
Not only do they have some serious accounting/options
irregularities, now this:

Apple Faces Federal Monopoly Suit


by Paul Thurrott, (e-mail address removed)

Apple Computer finally knows what it's like to be Microsoft: a company that thoroughly
dominates a market, shutting out its competition through artificial links between its products.
Unfortunately, with that kind of success comes increased scrutiny, and thanks to a recent
federal ruling, Apple is about to find itself in court facing illegal monopoly charges.

An intensely private company, Apple currently faces several lawsuits, most of which are in the
process of obtaining class-action status. But only one lawsuit has the potential to harm the
company in a manner similar to Microsoft's epic federal antitrust battle. Last July, a
class-action lawsuit alleged that Apple's decision to tie music sold from its iTunes Store to
its dominant iPod device was illegal, threatened competition, and harmed consumers.

In fact, the charges specifically refer to the Sherman Antitrust Act, which played a prominent
role in Microsoft's United States antitrust trial, and allege that Apple has unlawfully tied
and bundled products, obtained and maintained a monopoly, and attempted to extend that monopoly
into new markets. The charges also extend to various state antitrust laws, such as California's
Cartwright Act.

Apple sought to have the suit thrown out. But in a December 20, 2006, ruling, US District Judge
James Ware denied Apple's request, letting the lawsuit go forward. "Apple has presented no
reason for the Court to dismiss the Cartwright Act claim or the common law monopolization claim
while allowing Plaintiff's federal antitrust claims," the court order reads. "The Court denies
Apple's Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff's anti-trust claims."

The plaintiff's complaint presents a stark look at Apple's strategies in the digital media
market. "Apple deliberately makes digital music purchased at [the iTunes Store] inoperable with
its competitors'

digital music players," the complaint reads. "In order to play music from [the iTunes Store] on
a digital music player, then, a consumer's only option is the iPod. Apple sells the iPod at
prices far exceeding those that would prevail in a competitive marketplace. Apple also makes
the iPod unable to play music sold at its competitors' online music stores. In order to
purchase Online Music to play on an iPod, then, a consumer's only option is [the iTunes
Store]."

The plaintiffs also highlight a dirty secret about the iPod that hasn't gotten much press
outside of WinInfo: The underlying iPod hardware, which PortalPlayer manufactures, natively
supports Microsoft's Windows Media Audio (WMA) format, making the iPod compatible with most
competing online music services. But Apple shuts this compatibility feature off in the iPod
with what Ware calls "crippleware." The order also notes that Apple is using the same strategy
to shut out competition in the nascent video-download market.

According to Judge Ware, the plaintiffs in the case were able to make "sufficient" cause for
their tying and bundling claims. Regarding the monopoly charge, the judge did note that Apple
has a "qualified right"

to refuse to deal with competitors such as Microsoft. However, if that behavior "adversely
affects" consumers, the defendant must justify its behavior. "Accordingly, the Court finds that
Plaintiff has adequately alleged that Apple violated Section 2 of the Sherman Act," the order
reads. Judge Ware also found that the plaintiffs' argument for attempted monopolization was
valid.

The big question, of course, is whether the plaintiffs in this complaint can succeed in court.
Currently, Apple controls about 83 percent of the online music market, 75 percent of the online
video market, more than 90 percent of the hard drive-based MP3 player market, and more than 70
percent of the flash memory-based MP3 player market. Those are heady numbers, similar to those
Microsoft enjoys in the OS market. And certainly, Apple has actively worked to ensure that its
products work only with each other and not with competing solutions. Is that illegal? We might
just get the chance to find out.

More info:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/07/apple_itunes_antitrust_suit/

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=4207

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/06/slattery/index.php

 

[Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]]

Its one of major reasons why I think Linux will never have an average grasp
hold on the consumer desktop because it refuses to fully support
proprietary. And with the new version of the GPL coming in March, Linux is
much as doomed for mainstream thanks to Larry Stallman.

 

[Peter M]

AllofMp3 is in it's own hot water at the moment with other like sites no
doubt to follow.

US Music Publishers Sue AllofMP3 for $1.65 Trillion
By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews
December 21, 2006, 6:44 PM
In a move curious only due to its relatively late timing, the major record
production labels in the US have filed suit in federal court against Russian
online music distributor AllofMP3.com, seeking $150,000 USD for each single
violation of copyright infringement for tracks the site posted without
authorization.

 

[Roscoe]

Gee, when I read "The Vista Content Protection specification could very well
constitute the
longest suicide note in history" I just had to install Vista. I like to live
on the edge.

JT

 

[Roscoe]

No kidding. When you can download songs at .06 a pop, you gotta think
something is not quite kosher.

 

[MICHAEL]

That was a pathetic analogy.

-Michael

 

[Hertz_Donut]

I guess that leaves Linux.

Alias

No, it just means that there are still idiots that think Linux is the
answer...

Honu

 

[Paul-B]

No, it just means that there are still idiots that think Linux is
the answer...

Honu

Tell us what the question is and we can then see if, indeed, Linux is
the answer.

For instance, if the question were to be "What o/s can I install which
is free, quick and easy to install, fast, has bundled with it apps
which can be used to run an average office workstation, and can run on
a minimum-spec pc" what, I wonder would the answer be?

I know one thing it wouldn't be, and that is "Any flavour of Windows".

 

[Hertz_Donut]

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:
Apple also uses DRM in their software, how you think they got
Hollywood and the Music Industry to sell their stuff through
through the iTunes Store? Also, Apple also locks into its own
DRM technology for example the proprietary AAC codec the iPod
uses.

I guess that leaves Linux.

Alias

No, it just means that there are still idiots that think Linux is
the answer...

Honu

Tell us what the question is and we can then see if, indeed, Linux is
the answer.

For instance, if the question were to be "What o/s can I install which
is free, quick and easy to install, fast, has bundled with it apps
which can be used to run an average office workstation, and can run on
a minimum-spec pc" what, I wonder would the answer be?

I know one thing it wouldn't be, and that is "Any flavour of Windows".

Okay, here is a question:

What OS can I install the does not require me to hunt for drivers for my
hardware, does not require the knowledge and use of arcane commands, and can
run the 70,000 + software programs currently available for the Windows
platform?

Would you honestly recommend Linux to someone who uses the crutch of AOL?

Linux, while it has it's place, is definitely not a candidate to replace
Windows.

Honu.

 

[Alias]

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:
Apple also uses DRM in their software, how you think they got
Hollywood and the Music Industry to sell their stuff through
through the iTunes Store? Also, Apple also locks into its own
DRM technology for example the proprietary AAC codec the iPod
uses.
I guess that leaves Linux.

Alias
No, it just means that there are still idiots that think Linux is
the answer...

Honu

Tell us what the question is and we can then see if, indeed, Linux is
the answer.

For instance, if the question were to be "What o/s can I install which
is free, quick and easy to install, fast, has bundled with it apps
which can be used to run an average office workstation, and can run on
a minimum-spec pc" what, I wonder would the answer be?

I know one thing it wouldn't be, and that is "Any flavour of Windows".

Okay, here is a question:

What OS can I install the does not require me to hunt for drivers for my
hardware,
Ubuntu.

does not require the knowledge and use of arcane commands,

Ubuntu.

and can

run the 70,000 + software programs currently available for the Windows
platform?

There are more for the Ubuntu platform, all free, unlike most of what's
written for Windows.

Would you honestly recommend Linux to someone who uses the crutch of AOL?

Ubuntu, yes.

Linux, while it has it's place, is definitely not a candidate to replace
Windows.

Honu.

Where have you been, under a rock? Try Ubuntu and see if you feel the
same way. Linux isn't just for geeks anymore.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Those who want to rob banks are always going to find a way of doing
it...therefore should we not lock up the banks at night? I realize having
tellers in the bank inconvenience and cost innocent people who otherwise
should be able to bank on the honor system. DRM is not evil..neither are
locks.

:
....All it (Vista) is going to do is inconvenience and cost innocent
people. Those that want to make illegal copies are always going to find ways
of doing it...

To whom are you replying?

Alias

 

[Paul-B]

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:
Apple also uses DRM in their software, how you think they got
Hollywood and the Music Industry to sell their stuff through
through the iTunes Store? Also, Apple also locks into its own
DRM technology for example the proprietary AAC codec the iPod
uses.

I guess that leaves Linux.

Alias

No, it just means that there are still idiots that think Linux is
the answer...

Honu

Tell us what the question is and we can then see if, indeed, Linux
is the answer.

For instance, if the question were to be "What o/s can I install
which is free, quick and easy to install, fast, has bundled with it
apps which can be used to run an average office workstation, and
can run on a minimum-spec pc" what, I wonder would the answer be?

I know one thing it wouldn't be, and that is "Any flavour of
Windows".

-- Paul-B

Okay, here is a question:

What OS can I install the does not require me to hunt for drivers for
my hardware, does not require the knowledge and use of arcane
commands, and can run the 70,000 + software programs currently
available for the Windows platform?

Would you honestly recommend Linux to someone who uses the crutch of
AOL?

Linux, while it has it's place, is definitely not a candidate to
replace Windows.

Honu.

OK, I never said, nor do I believe that any flavour of Linux is a
candidate to replace Windows. However, with the restrictions and
pricing levels Microsoft is currently applying to Windows there are a
whole host of applications where Linux can perform as well, if not
better than Windows.

Let's take the question of drivers. There is no o/s currently available
which does not require the installer to hunt for drivers, and that
includes Windows Vista. I was amazed when I installed Ubuntu on one of
my PC's to find that every driver I required was automatically
installed. It picked-up my SATA driver, all my chipset drivers, my
wireless network card driver, installed them and was a completed setup
in about 20 minutes. The very same PC (the one I'm using at present)
was a pig to set-up with Vista RTM... it didn't see the SATA drives
(Ali chipset), once I had installed the SATA drivers it took over 40
minutes to install, and I had to go hunt for the soundcard and the
wireless card drivers.

The PC spec is fairly modest, just a Gigabyte of memory and an Athlon
XP2500 processor. Vista runs, but isn't very fast, in fact it's slower
than XP on the same machine. Ubuntu, OTOH, loads and runs much faster
than both Microsoft products. In fact, it's ideal for use as a general
office workstation, which is where Ubuntu/Kubuntu come into their own.

I work as a freelance IT Consultant to sme's here in the UK. By far the
majority of my clients... accountants, architects, builders etc have a
requirement for simple workstations which will run Wordprocessors,
Spreadsheets, Presentation software, email clients, web-browsers and
the like. Supplying them with a standard Ubuntu-based workstation saves
them around 600/800 UKP over the Windows/Microsoft equivalent, a
considerable saving for something which is a basic tool. I put in a few
demo systems and you'd be surprised how much my clients get to like
them.

Now we're looking at servers. Linux comes into it's own for
small-business server apps, and I can see it becoming a definite
challenge to the Microsoft stuff in this field, given the rocketing
price of the hardware and the software required for Microsoft-based
systems. Linux is already supplied in many embedded-systems equipment
and I believe the majority of commercial servers running, say, Apache
are Linux-based. For a small business with a network consisting of a
server and 20-40 workstations, using their server for mail/web/file
serving applications Linux is a definite candidate, performing
beautifully in this environment at zero cost.

I'm not, as I said, saying that Linux will replace Microsoft, any more
than, say, OS/X will, but it has it's place.

As for Vista, at the moment there is no way I will recommend any of my
clients to switch or upgrade when they buy their new software. It's
expensive, and it still has huge problems compared with XP. Like XP, I
presume after Vista SP1 or SP2 it will become attractive, as XP itself
did. You have to admit that XP was a pig until SP1, some even say SP2.
I know it took me a fair while to finally go over from W2K to WXP, W2K
was such a huge improvement on W98SE I used it from the start, but not
so the later XP.