Vista Font Managing Issues

[K3estrel]

I just got this new computer with Vista a week ago, and I'm already
having a major issue. I transferred my huge collection of fonts from my old
computer (Win 98SE) and now I'd love to start the process of uninstalling a
few of the pre-installed fonts that I don't want cluttering up the drop-down
font list in Word 2007 (like the foreign scripts, and the umpteenth font that
looks almost exactly like Times New Roman or Arial...). I still want to keep
the fonts I uninstall stored in a folder in case I need them for anything
later, and I want to be able to switch between the fonts I have in storage
and the ones I have currently installed for use in Word and Publisher (as
relatively easily as possible).
In Win 98, all I had to do was install the font I wanted from its
storage folder, use it, uninstall / delete it from the fonts folder, then cut
& paste it from the recycle bin back to its storage space (which was a bit of
a hassle, but worked just fine...). I also had a freeware font manager
program that I was just getting the hang of (AMP Font Viewer), and it was
also working pretty good - incidentally, that program isn't working the way
it used to either - the "uninstall current font" option has mysteroiusly
disappeared...
The problems I am having with doing the same sort of juggling act in
Vista are as follows: A) When I go to uninstall a font from the fonts
folder, I am either informed that I don't have the correct permission (I AM
set as an Administrator) or the font is deleted, but it is NOT sent to the
recycle bin. B) I used Help to research Permissions and learned that as a
User, I didn't have Full Control on the files in the Fonts folder, but I
could individually grant Full Control to a single font file (that's how I
managed the one successful delete so far, that then didn't appear in the
recycle bin).
Needless to say, with several thousand fonts in my collection, it could
take me years to grant Full Control to all of them individually, and when I
tried to follow the instructions to grant Full Control to the entire Fonts
folder using the instructions the Help file gave me, it didn't work. I either
need to know how to grant myself Full Control of the fonts folder (or better
yet, all of Vista) as a User, or I need to know where those font files are
going when they are deleted - since they AREN'T being sent to the recycle bin
like they're supposed to be.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Tom Ferguson]

These might be useful:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926183

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/74603287-0ee9-4470-9a4e-3d791f95f4c61033.mspx

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/7dcf289b-5fd3-41fd-a290-936f274def771033.mspx

Concerning installing/uninstalling fonts: I would copy the font file to a
separate directory before uninstalling it rather than trying to retrieve the
file from deletion or the recycle bin. Instead of solving the problem,
prevent the problem from occurring. ;-)

Tom
MSMVP 1998-2007

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

K3estrel

Font management has changed quite a bit from the way it worked in Win98.

The install/uninstall is automatic when you move or delete a font file from
the C:\Windows\Fonts folder.

You can select a group of fonts in the Fonts folder, drag them to your fonts
storage folder and drop them there. The font files will be 'copied' to that
folder.

You can then delete those font files from the Fonts folder. When you delete
them, they will be automatically uninstalled and will not appear in the
office programs.

 

[K3estrel]

Thanks so much - your suggestion worked great! I've already tested it
with one of my expendable fonts.
Just for my own clairification, though:
When Vista installs a font from a folder, does it also Cut the font
file from that folder, or does it make a Copy of the file and then install
the copy - leaving the original file undisturbed?
It actually occurred to me to create "master files" of all my fonts in
one folder, and keep a second folder to install from. I also realized that
burning a few backup CDs of all my font files wouldn't be a bad idea either...

 

[K3estrel]

Thanks to you also! Both you and Tom gave me similar solutions, and I
actually tried them all. As an added precaution, I also decided to copy all
the pre-installed fonts that came with my computer into my master file so
that I would have safe copies of them, too. Incidentally, is there anywhere
where I can find a list of all the system fonts that I absolutely have to
leave installed so that Vista runs normally?

 

[Tom Ferguson]

If the font is installed in the usual way, the font files are placed in the
Fonts directory. That is usually C:\Windows\Fonts. However, it depends on
which drive and directory is the boot directory for the system. In addition,
information is written into the registration database pointing to the font.
The installed font entry, with Vista, is in the key
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft|WindowsNT\CurrentVersion\Fonts.

If you install fonts whose files are on the HD, you will notice a check box
giving you the option to copy the file(s) to the fonts directory. If you do,
a copy of the files is places in the fonts directory and the location data
written to the registry. If you choose to not check the box, information is
written to the registry which includes the full path to the font and the
system provides a "shortcut" to the file so it becomes listed in the font
dialogue in the control panel. However, the file(s) are _not_ copied to the
fonts directory.

In my view, two things are important to do. Keep a separate backup of the
font files somewhere. Make sure that the directory containing the installed
fonts is quickly available to the system. That usually means that they are
on a local, fast, hard drive and not on a drive that requires network
access. Note that sometimes there are good reasons to have installed fonts
on network drives.

It's a long time since I considered the question of what the essential
Windows fonts are and I resist attempting the feat. It used to be more of an
issue. With recent Windows systems, there is little performance penalty in
having large numbers of fonts installed. The system now does not load fonts
it is not using. So, the biggest problem is the disk space cost. With
modern, large drives, that does not seem to be an issue for most users. Note
that there is a slight startup time cost for programs that maintain their
own font lists.

That being said: Marlett, Times New Roman, Arial, Symbol, Wingdings, Courier
New are expected by the system. If absent, substitution will occur. The
result is rarely pretty and sometimes not very legible. Others might be
required by installed programs, e.g. Word wants Tahoma, Word 2007 wants a
handful of others, e.g. Cambria, Calibri. Vista wants Segoe UI.

Hope that helps.

Tom
MSMVP 1998-2007

 

[K3estrel]

Yes, that helps a great deal!

If the font is installed in the usual way, the font files are placed in the
Fonts directory. That is usually C:\Windows\Fonts. However, it depends on
which drive and directory is the boot directory for the system. In addition,
information is written into the registration database pointing to the font.
The installed font entry, with Vista, is in the key
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft|WindowsNT\CurrentVersion\Fonts.

If you install fonts whose files are on the HD, you will notice a check box
giving you the option to copy the file(s) to the fonts directory. If you do,
a copy of the files is places in the fonts directory and the location data
written to the registry. If you choose to not check the box, information is
written to the registry which includes the full path to the font and the
system provides a "shortcut" to the file so it becomes listed in the font
dialogue in the control panel. However, the file(s) are _not_ copied to the
fonts directory.

In my view, two things are important to do. Keep a separate backup of the
font files somewhere. Make sure that the directory containing the installed
fonts is quickly available to the system. That usually means that they are
on a local, fast, hard drive and not on a drive that requires network
access. Note that sometimes there are good reasons to have installed fonts
on network drives.

It's a long time since I considered the question of what the essential
Windows fonts are and I resist attempting the feat. It used to be more of an
issue. With recent Windows systems, there is little performance penalty in
having large numbers of fonts installed. The system now does not load fonts
it is not using. So, the biggest problem is the disk space cost. With
modern, large drives, that does not seem to be an issue for most users. Note
that there is a slight startup time cost for programs that maintain their
own font lists.

That being said: Marlett, Times New Roman, Arial, Symbol, Wingdings, Courier
New are expected by the system. If absent, substitution will occur. The
result is rarely pretty and sometimes not very legible. Others might be
required by installed programs, e.g. Word wants Tahoma, Word 2007 wants a
handful of others, e.g. Cambria, Calibri. Vista wants Segoe UI.

Hope that helps.

Tom
MSMVP 1998-2007