Vista Defrag Program

[Terry Scott]

I know its beating a dead horse, but I feel I have to say it. DEFRAG in
Vista really sucks the big one. Using XP I could defrag my drive in about 30
min, Vista (this is no joke) for the very same drive took over 5 1/2 hrs,
this is somewhat alarming to say the least. I started defrag, waited about
45 min, then went to Wal-Mart (that is another experience in itself, and
somewhat time consuming), I was there just over an hour and a half, then
went to the bank made out a deposit slip, stood in line (about 30 min), then
went to the groceries store (another hour), came home put the dogs out to do
their business, changed my monkey's diaper, let the dogs back in, fed them,
vacuumed the floor, and several other things. Still almost 6 hours later
defrag still running, it was time for bed at that point, couldn't tell how
long it finally took. I do know that if this is the best Vista can do with
Defrag, I'd be MUCH better off with Xp, not to mention the many more
problems with Vista. I really hope SP1 will make some drastic improvements
on this and many other issues. My opinion is that Vista was not really
ready for public distribution, its more like something you would see in
about midway beta.

More venting, I feel no better now than when I started this thread.

 

[Guest]

I knew there were going to be a lot of aggravations connected with Vista
right now, so I dual booot with xp as well. Just run defrag at 1200 am and
turn it off when you get up. I don't think defragging is something you need
to do all the time anyway

 

[John Barnett MVP]

Defragging does take a long time, but it doesn't need to be done on a
regular basis - one a month is about average. You could, of course, start
the defrag process late at night and let it work through the night.
Alternatively you could use defrag from an elevated command prompt. (click
start>all programs>accessories. Right click on Command Prompt and the choose
'run as administrator' when the command prompt window opens type 'defrag c:'
(without the quotes) or another options is to use an alternative
defragmenation application such as PerfectDisk. PerfectDisk is the one that
i use.

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows - Shell/User

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

 

[Scott]

Terry Scott spake thusly on 2/24/2007 12:19 PM:

I know its beating a dead horse, but I feel I have to say it. DEFRAG in
Vista really sucks the big one. Using XP I could defrag my drive in
about 30 min.......

Lucky you. It took me *hours* in XP to defrag with the Windows
defragger. I only tried it once. Normally I used Speed Disk (part of
Norton Systemworks) which did it many times faster.

Then I swore off Norton (which is why I used Windows defragger one time
and one time only).

Your best bet is a third party defragger. I highly recommend Raxco
PerfectDisk (www.raxco.com). A very close second is Diskeeper
(www.diskeeper.com).


--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

 

[Robert Moir]

I do know that if this is the best
Vista can do with Defrag, I'd be MUCH better off with Xp, not to
mention the many more problems with Vista. I really hope SP1 will
make some drastic improvements on this and many other issues. My
opinion is that Vista was not really ready for public distribution,
its more like something you would see in about midway beta.

I suppose my question is why are you - and so many other people for that
matter - so obsessed with defragging your hard disk?

I very rarely run defrag in XP, and I don't even think about it on my apple
laptop at all.

The way Microsoft manage drive fragmentation has changed in Vista, and the
changes and the reasons for them have been well documented in these
newsgroups if you want to have a look. To be honest, I really wouldn't worry
about it. You presumably didn't buy a computer in order to sit there
obsessing over drive fragmentation so why not put this issue to one side and
move on. What did you buy the computer to do? Can you perform that reason
for purchasing a computer adequately on Vista, or not?

 

[Bobby]

Defragmentation is over-rated. The benefits are mostly placebo. Maybe once a
quarter is beneficial.

 

[Scott]

Robert Moir spake thusly on 2/24/2007 2:05 PM:

I suppose my question is why are you - and so many other people for that
matter - so obsessed with defragging your hard disk?

"Obsessed" is a rather strong term, don't you think?

I very rarely run defrag in XP, and I don't even think about it on my apple
laptop at all.

Give it a try, you just might find it speeds up file and application
access. As far as frequency goes, there is no set rule. The
recommendations are tied to your usage. Use your computer a lot?
Defrag once a or twice a week. Use it very little? Defrag once every
month or two.

As far as the Mac goes, it's a different file system (HFS+ vs NTFS).
NTFS fragments more than others. I never think about it in Linux either.

The way Microsoft manage drive fragmentation has changed in Vista, and the
changes and the reasons for them have been well documented in these
newsgroups if you want to have a look.

All MS has done is set it to run weekly as a task by default. MS
apparently thinks defragmentaion is important enough to do this.

To be honest, I really wouldn't worry
about it. You presumably didn't buy a computer in order to sit there
obsessing over drive fragmentation so why not put this issue to one side and
move on. What did you buy the computer to do? Can you perform that reason
for purchasing a computer adequately on Vista, or not?

Let it go to long and you'll find your Windows gets increasingly slower
and applications start to hang or crash regularly.

I had a friend who didn't defrag ever defrag her drive. She'd had her
computer (running XP) for over a year and was having problems. When I
looked her drive was 40% fragmented which is a LOT. I defragged it for
her and it took over 24 hours. But once it was done, you saw a VAST
impovement in speed and crashes/hangs went away.


--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

 

[dev]

/Terry Scott/ said:

I know its beating a dead horse, but I feel I have to say it. DEFRAG in
Vista really sucks the big one. Using XP I could defrag my drive in about 30
min, Vista (this is no joke) for the very same drive took over 5 1/2 hrs,
this is somewhat alarming to say the least. I started defrag, waited about
45 min, then went to Wal-Mart (that is another experience in itself, and
somewhat time consuming), I was there just over an hour and a half, then
went to the bank made out a deposit slip, stood in line (about 30 min), then
went to the groceries store (another hour), came home put the dogs out to do
their business, changed my monkey's diaper, let the dogs back in, fed them,
vacuumed the floor, and several other things. Still almost 6 hours later
defrag still running, it was time for bed at that point, couldn't tell how
long it finally took. I do know that if this is the best Vista can do with
Defrag, I'd be MUCH better off with Xp, not to mention the many more
problems with Vista. I really hope SP1 will make some drastic improvements
on this and many other issues. My opinion is that Vista was not really
ready for public distribution, its more like something you would see in
about midway beta.

More venting, I feel no better now than when I started this thread.

Each time defrag runs it should take less time. It should run
automatically once a week - in the middle of the night, if the PC is on
- unless you change its schedule. Let it do its thing, and give it no
further thought.

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM]

Robert Moir spake thusly on 2/24/2007 2:05 PM:

"Obsessed" is a rather strong term, don't you think?

Give it a try, you just might find it speeds up file and application
access. As far as frequency goes, there is no set rule. The
recommendations are tied to your usage. Use your computer a lot? Defrag
once a or twice a week. Use it very little? Defrag once every month or
two.

All MS has done is set it to run weekly as a task by default. MS
apparently thinks defragmentaion is important enough to do this.


Let it go to long and you'll find your Windows gets increasingly slower
and applications start to hang or crash regularly.

I had a friend who didn't defrag ever defrag her drive. She'd had her
computer (running XP) for over a year and was having problems. When I
looked her drive was 40% fragmented which is a LOT. I defragged it for
her and it took over 24 hours. But once it was done, you saw a VAST
impovement in speed and crashes/hangs went away.

In the days of DOS and FAT16 or FAT32, defragging made a big difference in
performance, but most people who did defrag did it more often than
necessary. With WinXP on NTFS I defrag every year or two and never notice
any difference in performance. I'll admit that I haven't bothered with
defragging Vista yet, but It's only been a year or so since my first usable
install.

 

[Scott]

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM spake thusly on 2/24/2007 3:25 PM:

In the days of DOS and FAT16 or FAT32, defragging made a big difference
in performance, but most people who did defrag did it more often than
necessary. With WinXP on NTFS I defrag every year or two and never
notice any difference in performance.

That is really odd, considering it's set in Vista by to defrag once a
week by default.


--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

 

[Drew]

Just a thought..Try Diskeeper from diskeeper.com fully supported for vista
and the longest I ever saw diskeeper take on my computer was 45seconds to a
minute....fully defragged all drives.Very well known and awesome program...I
have been running it since back in the days of 98 and that was at least
8yrs...free download to try.....BUY IT you will not regret it
!!...........Drew

 

[Ted F]

I use "AusLogics Disk Defrag v1.0" It's FREE!! User friendly and fast in
Vista.

Auslogics Disk Defrag
http://www.auslogics.com/index.php

 

[Robert Moir]

Defragmentation is over-rated. The benefits are mostly placebo. Maybe
once a quarter is beneficial.

Somewhere between quarterly and monthly would be reasonable for a manual
defrag (though I'd edge more towards quarterly, as you say). Anything more
than that then either someone's not using their machine in a typical way or
they're taken in by the placebo effect as you say.

 

[Robert Moir]

"Obsessed" is a rather strong term, don't you think?

Not really when someone decries the whole OS as useless and suggests the
whole thing should still be in beta because defrag.exe dared to change the
way it worked between versions of the operating system.

Give it a try, you just might find it speeds up file and application
access.

I'm very well aware of how defrag works and what it does, thank you. I'd
speculate that I'm far more aware than someone who thinks a typical user who
'uses their machine a lot' will really see a definite benefit from running
the defrag program twice a week - especially on Vista where I understand
Microsoft have a weekly background task set to run it once a week to do a
little tidying up as it is.

As far as frequency goes, there is no set rule. The
recommendations are tied to your usage. Use your computer a lot?
Defrag once a or twice a week. Use it very little? Defrag once every
month or two.

I honestly don't see where you get this idea from. How frequently a computer
is used will have little to no bearing on how often fragmentation of the
files on the hard disk is likely to have a noticable impact on performance.
How full the disk is generally and _how_ it is used will be of far more
importance; someone who uses their computer once a week to work with very
large datasets stored in many small files will probably see more
fragmentation than someone who uses their computer daily to check hotmail.

All MS has done is set it to run weekly as a task by default. MS
apparently thinks defragmentaion is important enough to do this.

Actually, they've done a little more than that. Sadly, I can't find the link
at the moment but there is a blog that deals with file system issues from
the team behind this sort of stuff on Vista which is quite interesting.

Let it go to long and you'll find your Windows gets increasingly
slower and applications start to hang or crash regularly.

Maybe - but how long is "too long" exactly. And I still assert that the user
might use their time on the computer far more productively if they get on
with what they purchased it for rather than obsessing over odd system
utilities. Especially when Microsoft have scheduled a defrag task to run
weekly anyway, as you note.

I had a friend who didn't defrag ever defrag her drive. She'd had her
computer (running XP) for over a year and was having problems. When I
looked her drive was 40% fragmented which is a LOT. I defragged it
for her and it took over 24 hours. But once it was done, you saw a
VAST impovement in speed and crashes/hangs went away.

Well once a year is probably too long to go without some kind of system
maintenance, that's for sure. I suggest quarterly runs for most "average"
home users on a well specified machine. By the way, did you _only_ run
defrag? Or did you check everything was updated, clear out temporary files,
maybe even run chkdsk and generally tidy up the system?

Again, I'm quite happy to put my reputation (such as it is) down and say
that doing a "proper" maintenance cycle where you do all these things
quarterly is going to be better for most people than just running defrag
twice a week as you suggest, let alone timing it as the original poster
seems to favour. Would a car that gets serviced properly every 6 to 12
months be more or less likely to run better than a car whose owner tops up
the windscreen washer fluid or maybe the oil daily but doesn't perform any
other routine maintenance tasks?

 

[Richard Urban]

You couldn't make enough changes in your operating system to warrant a
weekly defrag.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

The only really decent Defrag Program I've encountered is PerfectDisk.

You can buy it on the Web.

Really intelligent program. Beautifully designed, very logical interface --
functions and text in windows is sharp, cogent and intelligent.

Plus -- it's FAST.

No, I have no financial interest in it -- or relatives who work there. <g>

The Defrag programs in all the versions of Windows I've seen are slow,
clumsy and primitive by comparison.

DSH

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

Recte:

The only really decent Defrag Program I've encountered is PerfectDisk.

You can buy it on the Web.

Really intelligent program. Beautifully designed, very logical interface --
functions are well chosen and parsed, while text in windows is sharp, cogent
and intelligent.

Plus -- it's FAST.

No, I have no financial interest in it -- or relatives who work there. <g>

The Defrag programs in all the versions of Windows I've seen are slow,
clumsy and primitive by comparison.

DSH

 

[Terry Scott]

I really beg to differ, since this is a NEW operating system and many
manufactures are trying (with not much success as I see it) to do updates
regarding software and hardware as well, there are many installs that must
to be done in a short period of time if you want the system to run in a half
way decent condition. Therefore, there are files being installed and deleted
which adds to the fragmentation of a drive. Its my opinion as well as
Microsoft's (referring to an earlier version, I believe was Windows 95) that
Defrag be done on a more frequent basis. I may be wrong but have not seen
(in any versions since) any changes to that theory, or at least none made by
Microsoft to my knowledge. If in fact you go back to prior versions, do a
defrag, on the drives I do believe you'll notice a difference not only in
the access times, but the amount of time the HDD is actually running (kinda
goes together). This allows for the HDD to last longer since it isn't
running constantly, as well as allows it to get to the program you are
trying to start at a much faster rate. Granted with Vista you'll probably
never notice this difference since the defrag program is crap to start with
and doesn't appear (in my opinion and my opinion only) to being doing
anything but causing the HDD to constantly run without any compensation.
Looks to me like Microsoft may have a deal with some of the HDD producers
that they will wear out a drive, the user has to replace it, therefore the
HDD company makes money for the drive, then you have to buy another copy of
Vista, humm who's the loser here...Think about it.

All of the opinions expressed here are my own, I have been running windows
software since Bill actually started releasing it. I like windows software
and always have, heck I even like getting one of my old AT's out of the
closet and just doing a few DOS commands for the heck of it.

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

So, after that VERY long-winded peroration --- how often do you defrag --
and how often do your HDD's last -- on average?

DSH

 

[Richard Urban]

As I said. You couldn't make enough changes in the operating system in a
week to warrant a weekly defrag.

All of what you mentioned will not slow down the operating system one whit.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!