Vista backup question for MVPs

[Malcolm H]

I have recently installed Vista Premium and am becoming very impressed with
it. In particular the incremental backup system seems excellent - but I have
a question as follows:

If I routinely backup the C: drive to a different hard disk using Vista
Backup and then have a failure of the disk containing the C: partition, will
I be able to completely restore the OS, Apps etc without having to
re-install all the Apps?

Presumably the routine would be as follows:

1. Fit a new hard disk to replace the failed one.
2. Install Vista to the new disk from the original Vista CD
3. Restore the C: drive from the backup disk using the newly installed Vista
backup utility.

If I do the above will the computer then be set up exactly as it was before
the failure without any further action being required?

If the answer to the above is 'Yes' then I am very happy, otherwise I would
presumably have to invest in Norton Ghost (or similar) to create a separate
backup image of the C: drive.

I await your responses with keen anticipation.

 

[Guest]

Maybe.

1. Install disc
2. Install Vista
3 Restore last Complete PC Backup you made by hand (this includes apps etc)
4. Restore normal backup (documents etc)

I've not ever done this (and it's worked this way for many years on Windows
but prev versions made a floppy to automate the above 4 steps) as I've not
had the need (on a roaming domain the isn't much to backup on a workstation
and no server disk has failed. At home I only back up data and rely on
installing programs from CD).

----------------------
This is from Help
----------------------

Types of backups
You should back up your personal files, programs, and system settings. You
should also create restore points so that you can restore your computer to a
previous state when necessary. The table below describes each of these
options.

To back up
Use
When to use

Personal files such as pictures, music, and documents
Back Up Files wizard
=================
You should regularly back up the files you create and modify. It's also a
good idea to back up your files before making any system changes, such as
adding new hardware, updating drivers, editing the registry, or making large
changes to Windows, such as installing a service pack. For more information
about backing up files, see Back up your files.

Your entire computer
Windows Complete PC Backup
========================
When you first set up your computer, you should create a Windows Complete
PC Backup image, which is like taking a snapshot of the programs, system
settings, and files on your computer. You can use the backup if your
computer ever stops working. Although this type of backup includes your
personal files, we recommend that you back up your files regularly using the
Back Up Files wizard. You should also update the Windows Complete PC Backup
image every six months.

Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore is not included with Windows Vista
Home Basic or Windows Vista Home Premium.

--------------------------
[and also from help]
--------------------------

The Back Up Files wizard backs up the most common file types. The following
files are NOT included:

Files that have been encrypted using Encrypting File System (EFS)

Note
EFS is not included in Windows Vista Starter, Windows Vista Home Basic, and
Windows Vista Home Premium.

System files (the files that Windows needs to run)

Program files

Files stored on hard disks that are formatted using the FAT file system

Web-based e-mail that is not stored on your hard disk

Files that are in the Recycle Bin

Temporary files

User profile settings

 

[Malcolm H]

Thank you for your response.

Complete PC Backup is NOT included with Vista Premium, does this mean I
cannot do what you suggest?

Malcolm H

Maybe.

1. Install disc
2. Install Vista
3 Restore last Complete PC Backup you made by hand (this includes apps
etc)
4. Restore normal backup (documents etc)

I've not ever done this (and it's worked this way for many years on
Windows but prev versions made a floppy to automate the above 4 steps) as
I've not had the need (on a roaming domain the isn't much to backup on a
workstation and no server disk has failed. At home I only back up data and
rely on installing programs from CD).

----------------------
This is from Help
----------------------

Types of backups
You should back up your personal files, programs, and system settings. You
should also create restore points so that you can restore your computer to
a previous state when necessary. The table below describes each of these
options.

To back up
Use
When to use

Personal files such as pictures, music, and documents
Back Up Files wizard
=================
You should regularly back up the files you create and modify. It's also a
good idea to back up your files before making any system changes, such as
adding new hardware, updating drivers, editing the registry, or making
large changes to Windows, such as installing a service pack. For more
information about backing up files, see Back up your files.

Your entire computer
Windows Complete PC Backup
========================
When you first set up your computer, you should create a Windows Complete
PC Backup image, which is like taking a snapshot of the programs, system
settings, and files on your computer. You can use the backup if your
computer ever stops working. Although this type of backup includes your
personal files, we recommend that you back up your files regularly using
the Back Up Files wizard. You should also update the Windows Complete PC
Backup image every six months.

Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore is not included with Windows Vista
Home Basic or Windows Vista Home Premium.

--------------------------
[and also from help]
--------------------------

The Back Up Files wizard backs up the most common file types. The
following files are NOT included:

Files that have been encrypted using Encrypting File System (EFS)

Note
EFS is not included in Windows Vista Starter, Windows Vista Home Basic,
and Windows Vista Home Premium.

System files (the files that Windows needs to run)

Program files

Files stored on hard disks that are formatted using the FAT file system

Web-based e-mail that is not stored on your hard disk

Files that are in the Recycle Bin

Temporary files

User profile settings

I have recently installed Vista Premium and am becoming very impressed
with it. In particular the incremental backup system seems excellent - but
I have a question as follows:

If I routinely backup the C: drive to a different hard disk using Vista
Backup and then have a failure of the disk containing the C: partition,
will I be able to completely restore the OS, Apps etc without having to
re-install all the Apps?

Presumably the routine would be as follows:

1. Fit a new hard disk to replace the failed one.
2. Install Vista to the new disk from the original Vista CD
3. Restore the C: drive from the backup disk using the newly installed
Vista backup utility.

If I do the above will the computer then be set up exactly as it was
before the failure without any further action being required?

If the answer to the above is 'Yes' then I am very happy, otherwise I
would presumably have to invest in Norton Ghost (or similar) to create a
separate backup image of the C: drive.

I await your responses with keen anticipation.

 

[Guest]

Hi Malcolm,

First of all, I don't know how accurate and how fast Windows Backup utility
backs up whole hard drive or partition, and what the compression ratio is,
because I am not using it. Second of all, I think the System Tools that came
with Windows Vista are a joke. At any rate, let me ask you a couple
questions. What is the point of making a backup of your Windows partition? Is
to save time right? So why would you want to install Vista to install backed
up Vista?

My suggestion is to spend $40 on a third party program such as Acronis True
Image, quite powerful, 100% accuracy and 50% compression ratio. And spend
another $50 on a 60-80Gb hard drive, split the hard drive into however many
partitions you want and install as slave, put the image on one of these
partitions. In the event Master failure, unplug crashed Mater HD send it to
trash can, apply the image onto clean partition without ever install Vista or
apps. and now slave HD become Master HD, with all that takes about 30-35
minutes.

It took me 4.5 hours to install Vista, drivers, updates, apps., defrag,
personal settings and finally make an image of my C. One night I decided to
test my backed up image, I formatted my C partition and put the image back,
it took me 15 minutes, and that was also because I did not have to switch out
my HD.

 

[Guest]

You mean home premium I take it. Probably can't then.

Thank you for your response.

Complete PC Backup is NOT included with Vista Premium, does this mean I
cannot do what you suggest?

Malcolm H

Maybe.

1. Install disc
2. Install Vista
3 Restore last Complete PC Backup you made by hand (this includes apps
etc)
4. Restore normal backup (documents etc)

I've not ever done this (and it's worked this way for many years on
Windows but prev versions made a floppy to automate the above 4 steps) as
I've not had the need (on a roaming domain the isn't much to backup on a
workstation and no server disk has failed. At home I only back up data
and rely on installing programs from CD).

----------------------
This is from Help
----------------------

Types of backups
You should back up your personal files, programs, and system settings.
You should also create restore points so that you can restore your
computer to a previous state when necessary. The table below describes
each of these options.

To back up
Use
When to use

Personal files such as pictures, music, and documents
Back Up Files wizard
=================
You should regularly back up the files you create and modify. It's also a
good idea to back up your files before making any system changes, such as
adding new hardware, updating drivers, editing the registry, or making
large changes to Windows, such as installing a service pack. For more
information about backing up files, see Back up your files.

Your entire computer
Windows Complete PC Backup
========================
When you first set up your computer, you should create a Windows Complete
PC Backup image, which is like taking a snapshot of the programs, system
settings, and files on your computer. You can use the backup if your
computer ever stops working. Although this type of backup includes your
personal files, we recommend that you back up your files regularly using
the Back Up Files wizard. You should also update the Windows Complete PC
Backup image every six months.

Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore is not included with Windows Vista
Home Basic or Windows Vista Home Premium.

--------------------------
[and also from help]
--------------------------

The Back Up Files wizard backs up the most common file types. The
following files are NOT included:

Files that have been encrypted using Encrypting File System (EFS)

Note
EFS is not included in Windows Vista Starter, Windows Vista Home Basic,
and Windows Vista Home Premium.

System files (the files that Windows needs to run)

Program files

Files stored on hard disks that are formatted using the FAT file system

Web-based e-mail that is not stored on your hard disk

Files that are in the Recycle Bin

Temporary files

User profile settings

I have recently installed Vista Premium and am becoming very impressed
with it. In particular the incremental backup system seems excellent -
but I have a question as follows:

If I routinely backup the C: drive to a different hard disk using Vista
Backup and then have a failure of the disk containing the C: partition,
will I be able to completely restore the OS, Apps etc without having to
re-install all the Apps?

Presumably the routine would be as follows:

1. Fit a new hard disk to replace the failed one.
2. Install Vista to the new disk from the original Vista CD
3. Restore the C: drive from the backup disk using the newly installed
Vista backup utility.

If I do the above will the computer then be set up exactly as it was
before the failure without any further action being required?

If the answer to the above is 'Yes' then I am very happy, otherwise I
would presumably have to invest in Norton Ghost (or similar) to create a
separate backup image of the C: drive.

I await your responses with keen anticipation.

 

[Malcolm H]

Hi Vista Ultimate

I have my primary HD divided into 5 partitions, the first of which is the C:
drive with only Vista Home Premium and applications on it. Documents,
Pictures, Music etc are on other partitions and other disks. Another
separate disk is for backups.

The Vista Home Premium backup utility seems to provide effective incremental
backups for the documernt /picture files etc.

My concern is recovery of the C: drive (with its OS, Apps and setups etc.)
in the event of a disk failure. It seems that the Vista Home Premium backup
utility will not do this.

I presume therefore that I will have to invest in a utility such a Acronis?
or Norton Ghost (I will investigate this) to make a backup image of the C:
drive.

Do you agree?

Malcolm H

 

[Richard Urban]

You are not using the backup that came with Vista yet you feel qualified to
label System Tools, of which backup is a part of, a joke!

You have no credibility to make such a statement.

Full system backup (Vista Ultimate) is entirely capable of restoring the
entire system to a bare drive. I have done it by booting from the Vista DVD.
Because the hard drive is different, you will likely have to reactivate the
O/S. I did.

When once TrueImage HOME was released for Vista I stopped using the built-in
backup, but not because it didn't work.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Malcolm H]

Thank you for that Richard, I will give TrueImage HOME a try!

Malcolm

 

[Guest]

Hi,

I totally agree, when I wrote my first post regarding to your question I
have thought about 2 scenarios: 1) Partition/OS failure 2) Hard drive
failure, and I gave you my suggestion based on my #2, because I speculated
that you might want to do some sort of incremental backup plus, you said disk
failure. However, in either scenario, #2, 3 on your list is not feasible,
that's doing more work than you have to. And if a partition failure, then
that's even less work you have to do to get your system back up and running,
because little or no physical labor involved.

About partitioning a hard drive, I have 3 partitions on my hard drive and I
structured as follow: 1) My OS, 2) My Apps, 3) My OS image. I also have an
image saved on my USB external drive, in case my main HD fails. It seems like
you're also doing the right thing, now if you invest a Backup program, you'll
be fearless. It will pay off when that day comes.

 

[Guest]

Now as for you, I think people like me have been giving you more credit than
you deserved. I might have assumed you smart until you open your mouth or
write this post. Where in my post, did I say Vista Backup utility is
incapable of doing a backup? First of all, why do you have to use Vista DVD
when you restore a backup? I didn't have to use neither Vista DVD nor ATI CD
when I restored my backup using ATI program. Second of all, if Windows
Backup utility so great as you claimed it was, WHY are you using Acronis True
Image now?

"When once TrueImage HOME was released for Vista I stopped using the built-in
backup, but not because it didn't work. "

My last word of advice to you, buddy, if you cant backup what you're
saying, don't say it, shut your mouth and let people assume you're smart.

 

[Guest]

Richard,

I also saw this quote below your name in every of your posts, I failed to
see you applying it, if you'd apply it, you wouldn't go around criticize
others of their posted suggestions, unless they're Linux zealots, of course.

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"Help" is to provide your best recommendations with your own experience and
knowledge about the issue, then let the person who asked the question decide
with suggestion is appropriately applies to their current situation(s). NOT
by criticizing others.

 

[Richard Urban]

I never said it was great. I just said that it worked.

You ADMIT that you are not using Vista backup yet you say it is a joke
because it is a part of the system tools. How can you then determine that it
is a joke. By what you have read? If you have no first hand experience, you
have no credibility.

Quote from you (complete with run on words):

First of all, I don't know how accurate and how fast Windows Backup utility
backs up whole hard drive or partition, and what the compression ratio is,
because I am not using it. Second of all, I think the System Tools that
camewith Windows Vista are a joke.

Unquote:


--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

Forget the run on words. That was my error.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Guest]

Yes, that's right, I admitted that I am not using it. But did I play around
with it? Yes. Will I trust it with my OS backup? No, got ATI, so do you. Have
I used Vista's Defragmenter? Absolutely. What do I think of it? Got
PerfectDisk!

You didn't blatantly say it was great, but by being defensive and defending
it from what I wrote in my post, you already telling me it's great.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are not using the backup that came with Vista yet you feel qualified to
label System Tools, of which backup is a part of, a joke!

You have no credibility to make such a statement.

Full system backup (Vista Ultimate) is entirely capable of restoring the
entire system to a bare drive. I have done it by booting from the Vista DVD.
Because the hard drive is different, you will likely have to reactivate the
O/S. I did.

When once TrueImage HOME was released for Vista I stopped using the built-in
backup, but not because it didn't work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, can you tell me what's wrong with your statement above? Praising Vista
Backup tool, but using Acronis True Image. What right do you have to be
defensive about it. I thought Windows System Tools are a joke, but you're
even worst.

Here is a joke for you, if you can't backup what you're saying, don't say
it. And if can't backup OS with Windows BU, use ATI.