Video Card For Handling/Editing A Large Video Stream


S

Searcher7

Does anyone have video card recommendations for a project involving
rendering in a large video stream of a landscape that when run full
screen at a normal frame rate will be large enough to cover three
monitors?

The real-time rendering will mostly involve changes in
shadow/lighting.(ie: Moving clouds over a landscape). Since these
changes will be either minimal or take place progressively(slowly) in
the scene I'm editing, what may be more important is that the card
should to be able to handle a video stream that is large enough to
display across at least three monitors while I'm editing. So I guess
this is mostly about bandwidth to work with.

Also, can anyone elaborate on the importance the onboard memory is and
the display buffer as they may relate to a project like this?

And since this will be a real life scene that is recorded before hand,
would a 128 bit card suffice?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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J

Jan Panteltje

Does anyone have video card recommendations for a project involving
rendering in a large video stream of a landscape that when run full
screen at a normal frame rate will be large enough to cover three
monitors?

The real-time rendering will mostly involve changes in
shadow/lighting.(ie: Moving clouds over a landscape). Since these
changes will be either minimal or take place progressively(slowly) in
the scene I'm editing, what may be more important is that the card
should to be able to handle a video stream that is large enough to
display across at least three monitors while I'm editing. So I guess
this is mostly about bandwidth to work with.

Also, can anyone elaborate on the importance the onboard memory is and
the display buffer as they may relate to a project like this?

And since this will be a real life scene that is recorded before hand,
would a 128 bit card suffice?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
Looka here dude, you do not know s*i* about video it seems.
You have pissed of some people too it seems...
You claim that the software still needs to be written.
Lemme formulate it this way, 'Get in touch with the one who will write it',
and if that is you, then I say you dunno enough to do it.
I DUNNO what a 128 bit card is, and you better explain that.
In the most simple way you could use 3 PCI cards, and 3 monitors.
Write to the display buffer.
You will need to specify size, but for a graphic card RGB buffer at say
800x600 normally 4 bytes are used (R,G,B and one unused) per pixel.
800x600x4 = 1,920,000 bytes x 2 for flip buffer = 4MB OK?
32 MB is bigger then that, so the cheapest cards.
Other way would be 3 very cheap Duron PCs with 3 monitors networked with
ethernet.
You can program that no problem too I am sure (or have it done).
 
S

Searcher7

Looka here dude, you do not know s*i* about video it seems.
You have pissed of some people too it seems...
You claim that the software still needs to be written.
Lemme formulate it this way, 'Get in touch with the one who will write it',
and if that is you, then I say you dunno enough to do it.
Obviously you are the one who doesn't know shit. Who did I piss off?
You? Your assessment of my abilities are irrelevant.
I DUNNO what a 128 bit card is, and you better explain that.
In the most simple way you could use 3 PCI cards, and 3 monitors.
Write to the display buffer.
You will need to specify size, but for a graphic card RGB buffer at say
800x600 normally 4 bytes are used (R,G,B and one unused) per pixel.
800x600x4 = 1,920,000 bytes x 2 for flip buffer = 4MB OK?
32 MB is bigger then that, so the cheapest cards.
Other way would be 3 very cheap Duron PCs with 3 monitors networked with
ethernet.
You can program that no problem too I am sure (or have it done).
This thread's intent was to get recommendations concerning what *video
card* I'd need to accomplish what I want. I wanted no other "ideas" at
this time. It is of no consequence who will write the software for this
project.

The idea was to make sure the video card would not be a *hardware*
limitation. The software and specifics as far as numbers crunching will
have to be finalized when I get the source material that I have to
edit.

And 128bit refers to the memory configuration of the card.(I assume you
know what bandwidth means).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

This thread's intent was to get recommendations concerning what *video
card* I'd need to accomplish what I want.
Well, honestly, I am reading from rec.video.desktop and there is this other thread
with same sort of question.
So I deduced it was same person or same project.
ormaybe there is a request out for somethingt like that.
And amateurs want to do it.
I wanted no other "ideas" at this time.
Good, so I will refrain from helping you.
It is of no consequence who will write the software for this project.
This is a very relative thing, especially if it does not work.

The idea was to make sure the video card would not be a *hardware*
limitation.
That depned on the software solution!
The software and specifics as far as numbers crunching will
have to be finalized when I get the source material that I have to
edit.
have fun.

And 128bit refers to the memory configuration of the card.(I assume you
know what bandwidth means).
And waisting it...
If you knew about bandwidth and graphics cards and how to program these
you would likely not have addressed this this way, high bandwidth on
card would only make a lot of sense with fast rendering.

But then again, lots of people need a pentium -4 3 GHz for wordprocessing.

Personally I think it is stupedo to design systems like that if you do
not have a good graps of 1) the electronics 2) the software.

Dunno why I wind up negative on this again.
Probably because something does not work out here.

Well I will read about it if it works I suppose.
Flight simulation? Art? Surrond fishtank? whatdoyouknow.
LOL
 
J

J. Clarke

Jan said:
Well, honestly, I am reading from rec.video.desktop and there is this
other thread with same sort of question.
So I deduced it was same person or same project.
ormaybe there is a request out for somethingt like that.
And amateurs want to do it.

Good, so I will refrain from helping you.

This is a very relative thing, especially if it does not work.


That depned on the software solution!

have fun.


And waisting it...
If you knew about bandwidth and graphics cards and how to program these
you would likely not have addressed this this way, high bandwidth on
card would only make a lot of sense with fast rendering.

But then again, lots of people need a pentium -4 3 GHz for wordprocessing.

Personally I think it is stupedo to design systems like that if you do
not have a good graps of 1) the electronics 2) the software.

Dunno why I wind up negative on this again.
Probably because something does not work out here.

Well I will read about it if it works I suppose.
Flight simulation? Art? Surrond fishtank? whatdoyouknow.
LOL
Maybe it's just to pry money out of the venture capitalists. I remember
going to a meeting 20 years or so back where some yahoo was going to
produce a new franchised laser-tag system based on the scoring technology
the military was using for training at the time. VR hadn't been discovered
so this kid they had in charge of the engineering was going to gen all
kinds of sfx using an array of 8-bit machines. After I talked to him for a
while it became clear that he (a) didn't have a clue how do what he was
promising and (b) wouldn't listen to advice and (c) was mainly in it for a
free machine. Well, I found better things to do with my time and the laser
game never happened and I noticed the other day that somebody's after one
of the principals for fraud.

Well, this discussion reminds me of my discussion with that kid. Some
grandiose project in which the wheel is going to be reinvented to the
amazement of the world.
 
S

Searcher7

Jan said:
Well, honestly, I am reading from rec.video.desktop and there is this other thread
with same sort of question.
So I deduced it was same person or same project.
ormaybe there is a request out for somethingt like that.
And amateurs want to do it.
I see no other thread with the same sort of question.
Good, so I will refrain from helping you.
Not that you could...
project.
This is a very relative thing, especially if it does not work.
***Let me reiterate. It is of no consequence TO YOU who will write the
software for this project.
That depned on the software solution!
Totally incorrect.
have fun.
I intend to...
And waisting it...
If you knew about bandwidth and graphics cards and how to program these
you would likely not have addressed this this way, high bandwidth on
card would only make a lot of sense with fast rendering.
I am well aware of that. Hence the reason for me mentioning it. Now
what's your point?
But then again, lots of people need a pentium -4 3 GHz for wordprocessing.

Personally I think it is stupedo to design systems like that if you do
not have a good graps of 1) the electronics 2) the software.
Well thinking obviously isn't your strong suit.
Dunno why I wind up negative on this again.
Probably because something does not work out here.
Perhaps it is your bad spelling or failure to understand the simplicity
involved in my question.
Well I will read about it if it works I suppose.
Flight simulation? Art? Surrond fishtank? whatdoyouknow.
LOL
Neither, but don't hold your breath waiting.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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J

Jan Panteltje

I see no other thread with the same sort of question.
135 degrees mean anything to you?

Not that you could...
That could be true, technically speaking you'd need a shrink.


***Let me reiterate. It is of no consequence TO YOU who will write the
software for this project.
Also perhaps true, it won't bother me a bit if it does not work, trust me.

Totally incorrect.
Here you show yourself again to be totally clueless about the whole
process of image - lens - sensor - scanning - encoding - storing -
vice versa - decoding - graphics card - display device(s).

I intend to...
Good.
Be detached, I hope you financers are too.
 
R

RS

The video card is mostly irrelevant to the rendering process. Rendering is
processor intensive. Your just wanting to display 2D pictures on your
monitors so horsepower of the video cards(s) is not your primary concern.

Across three monitors however? Getting a three monitor setup to work is not
really the province of desktop editing, so your query's would probably meet
with people more knowledgeable on other foums in that regard.
 
S

Searcher7

I see no other thread with the same sort of question.
135 degrees mean anything to you?
Duh. Two different questions began two different threads.
That could be true, technically speaking you'd need a shrink.
Give me the number to yours...
Also perhaps true, it won't bother me a bit if it does not work,
trust me.

What seems to bother you is my project(which you couldn't understand
anyway).
Here you show yourself again to be totally clueless about the whole
process of image - lens - sensor - scanning - encoding - storing -
vice versa - decoding - graphics card - display device(s).
Actually, I'm showing that I know more than you, since you cannot
understand that when I said I don't want the video card to be a
hardware limitation. And there is no "software solution" yet. Just an
idea of how much data will have to be worked with. So I reiterate that
you are incorrect.
Good.
Be detached, I hope you financers are too.
Like everything else you said, that made no sense at all.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
S

Searcher7

RS said:
The video card is mostly irrelevant to the rendering process. Rendering is
processor intensive. Your just wanting to display 2D pictures on your
monitors so horsepower of the video cards(s) is not your primary
concern.

I've been attempting to keep this simple by not going into all the
details, but that doesn't seem to be working. :) Especially since this
is a unique project that doesn't involve existing software that
everyone identifies with and is use to.

I never said I wanted to display 2D pictures. I mentioned a *video
stream*. A stream large enough to cover three monitors(at a good
resolution). But that doesn't mean I'll need to use three monitors.
This is mostly about bandwidth. And I was wondering how important the
memory configuration(ie: 256 bit), and the on-card memory(ie:256mb) was
on a card as far as handling the vast amount of data I want to work
with.

I don't know whether the rendering ability of the cards(when playing
3-D games) would or can come into play when rendering light and shadows
on a video stream that is three times as big(data-wise) as the average
video stream needed to get a full-screen(good resolution) picture.
Across three monitors however? Getting a three monitor setup to work is not
really the province of desktop editing, so your query's would probably meet
with people more knowledgeable on other foums in that regard.
Forget the three monitor set-up. I need to work with a video stream
that is would require a three monitor set-up *if* I wanted to see it
being rendered on three monitors at the same time. And this is about
findng out if the cards available to me can handle that.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Saten Island, New York.
 
N

News

Is the recorded scene compressed (MPEG format) or raw?
Is it being played back from disk or network (limits of disk throughput or
PCI bus is relatively low),
or fed directly to the display adapter then output (avoiding buses)?
Is the stream to be acted upon by the computer?(you mention changes in
shadow/lighting, or is that may be external to the computer)
Mainstream video cards go up to 2048x1536. Is that fine enough resolution
for your needs?
In theory, most modern video cards have memory bandwidth measured in GB/s
and RAMDACs in the hundreds of MB/s.
You haven't specified the resolution/bandwidth of your stream. Does it
approach/exceed these numbers?
 
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J

Jan Panteltje

concern.

I've been attempting to keep this simple by not going into all the
details, but that doesn't seem to be working. :)
Yo ucould not specify a detail in a

Especially since this
is a unique project that doesn't involve existing software that
everyone identifies with and is use to.

I never said I wanted to display 2D pictures. I mentioned a *video
stream*. A stream large enough to cover three monitors(at a good
resolution). But that doesn't mean I'll need to use three monitors.
This is mostly about bandwidth. And I was wondering how important the
memory configuration(ie: 256 bit), and the on-card memory(ie:256mb) was
on a card as far as handling the vast amount of data I want to work
with.
Moron, specify datarate !
What for you may be 'vast' may be peanuts (as in brain capacity for example).
Note I am not arguing, merely evaluating + observing.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Duh. Two different questions began two different threads.


Give me the number to yours...
You want the ones from the team that are still ALIVE? (wiping blood
from 10 inch knife).


What seems to bother you is my project(which you couldn't understand
anyway).
Yes, it is a mystic project, or misty..

Actually, I'm showing that I know more than you, since you cannot
understand that when I said I don't want the video card to be a
hardware limitation. And there is no "software solution" yet. Just an
idea of how much data will have to be worked with. So I reiterate that
you are incorrect.
Just mention input format and fps, and with those numbers save us all
a lot of time.
Like everything else you said, that made no sense at all.
I will stop arguing with you as there is nothing I can learn from it.
But I will keep pointing out wierdnesses in your reasoning.
 
C

Chuck U. Farley

The video card is mostly irrelevant to the rendering process. Rendering is
processor intensive. Your just wanting to display 2D pictures on your
monitors so horsepower of the video cards(s) is not your primary concern.
A point I don't think the OP understands.
Across three monitors however? Getting a three monitor setup to work is not
really the province of desktop editing, so your query's would probably meet
with people more knowledgeable on other foums in that regard.
I don't understand the 3 monitor thing either or the use of the term
"rendering in a large video stream". The video card I recommended to him in
the ATI forum can span two monitors but I have never heard of using 3
desktop monitors to display streaming video.
 
R

RS

I've been attempting to keep this simple by not going into all the
details, but that doesn't seem to be working. :) Especially since this
is a unique project that doesn't involve existing software that
everyone identifies with and is use to.

I never said I wanted to display 2D pictures. I mentioned a *video
stream*. A stream large enough to cover three monitors(at a good
resolution). But that doesn't mean I'll need to use three monitors.
This is mostly about bandwidth. And I was wondering how important the
memory configuration(ie: 256 bit), and the on-card memory(ie:256mb) was
on a card as far as handling the vast amount of data I want to work
with.

I don't know whether the rendering ability of the cards(when playing
3-D games) would or can come into play when rendering light and shadows
on a video stream that is three times as big(data-wise) as the average
video stream needed to get a full-screen(good resolution) picture.
The light, the shadows, everything. Its all 2D. An understandable
misconception.


Forget the three monitor set-up. I need to work with a video stream
that is would require a three monitor set-up *if* I wanted to see it
being rendered on three monitors at the same time. And this is about
findng out if the cards available to me can handle that.

Thanks.
Ok, so to understand you want to render something really really really
widescreen. A panorama landscape. Still, I believe I can state with a
fair degree of confidence that you will NOT be requireing a video card
with any super horsepower. Its just a movie and the video card does not
need to do any 'on the fly' creation of objects. This is why the gaming
cards have lots of horsepower. The game says. "Create a crapload of
shapes in this configuration at such and such a place and constantly
re-recreate them as the object moves in space." With video, all of that
is done. To be overly simple, its like the vid card is just a projector
for the video.

I believe most of todays standard cards have about 128Meg and any
standard card would do the job for you.

Other things for you to consider.
1. How and on what will the final product be viewed? You will adjust the
rendering settings of your project to try and create the best quality
for the intended final output. If on a television type medium, you will
want to have an external monitor connected to your computer so you can
see what it will end up looking like. The computer monitor will not give
you an accurate report in this regard.

2. On what kind of media will this be distributed? DVD, CD, Tape, over
the net? Again, you will want to taylor your creation process to the
distribution.
 
S

Searcher7

Jan said:
You want the ones from the team that are still ALIVE? (wiping blood
from 10 inch knife).



Yes, it is a mystic project, or misty..


Just mention input format and fps, and with those numbers save us all
a lot of time.

I will stop arguing with you as there is nothing I can learn from it.
But I will keep pointing out wierdnesses in your reasoning.
There is nothing weird about my reasoning.

On second thought, perhaps you should sue your shrink for not having
you committed.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, new York.
 
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S

Searcher7

Jan said:
Yo ucould not specify a detail in a
What happened? You suffer brainlock?
Especially since this
Moron, specify datarate !
What for you may be 'vast' may be peanuts (as in brain capacity for example).
Note I am not arguing, merely evaluating + observing.
You need to evaluate why nothing you say makes sense. Your grammar is
crap. Obviously english is not your first language. So stop being an
idiot and go back to school.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
S

Searcher7

The light, the shadows, everything. Its all 2D. An understandable
misconception.
Since the shadows will be a direct result of clouds, birds, planes,
ect. moving over an uneven landscape, for realism the changes will be
done on a *pixel by pixel* basis and not in a general abstract
way(which I thought is the way it was done in viodeo games). This is
why I consider it "3D shading". The changes from one pixel to the next
will not necesarily be the same. No Poly data involved. And I don't
want to render the fullscreen.(which will actually be three sceens
wide, so a horizontal scroll will be need to see all of it).
Ok, so to understand you want to render something really really really
widescreen. A panorama landscape. Still, I believe I can state with a
fair degree of confidence that you will NOT be requireing a video card
with any super horsepower. Its just a movie and the video card does not
need to do any 'on the fly' creation of objects. This is why the gaming
cards have lots of horsepower. The game says. "Create a crapload of
shapes in this configuration at such and such a place and constantly
re-recreate them as the object moves in space." With video, all of that
is done. To be overly simple, its like the vid card is just a projector
for the video.
There will be no "'on the fly' creation of objects", but there
occasionally will be smaller videos(birds, planes, ect.) pasted in the
sky on top of the main full screen(x3) video we are discussing.
I believe most of todays standard cards have about 128Meg and any
standard card would do the job for you.
I figure I'll be working with uncompressed NTSC video, which I think
comes out to over 80mb per second, at maximum resolution(2048x1536).
And that's just the main full-screen(x3) video, before any actual
editing.
Other things for you to consider.
1. How and on what will the final product be viewed? You will adjust the
rendering settings of your project to try and create the best quality
for the intended final output. If on a television type medium, you will
want to have an external monitor connected to your computer so you can
see what it will end up looking like. The computer monitor will not give
you an accurate report in this regard.
I know. It will be viewed only on my PC screen.(I guess I can get a
card with outputs if I want to view it on something else).
2. On what kind of media will this be distributed? DVD, CD, Tape, over
the net? Again, you will want to taylor your creation process to the
distribution.
This is not for distribution.

The source material will be on my hard drive. Then whatever part I want
will be loaded into a ram disk.(Achieving normal speeds/frame rates is
important). After that it's the video card to the display.

That's it.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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S

Searcher7

News said:
Is the recorded scene compressed (MPEG format) or raw?
Is it being played back from disk or network (limits of disk throughput or
PCI bus is relatively low),
or fed directly to the display adapter then output (avoiding buses)?
Is the stream to be acted upon by the computer?(you mention changes in
shadow/lighting, or is that may be external to the computer)
Mainstream video cards go up to 2048x1536. Is that fine enough resolution
for your needs?
In theory, most modern video cards have memory bandwidth measured in GB/s
and RAMDACs in the hundreds of MB/s.
You haven't specified the resolution/bandwidth of your stream. Does it
approach/exceed these numbers?
Those questions were answered in my last response to "RS".

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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