Via Apollo P4x266 motherboard and 1G PC2100 DDR 266 memory module

N

newsposter

Hi everybody

My motherboard's manual can be found here

http://www.via.com.tw/download/mainboards/3/5/p4xb-s-r_v1.3.pdf

The mothreboard is also described here

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/p4-series/p4x266/

Chipset
· VIA Apollo P4X266 chipset (VT8753 & VT8233)
- Supports Intel® Pentium® 4 processors with 400MHz (100MHz QDR) CPU
Front Side Bus (FSB).
- AGP v2.0 compliant with 8x transfer mode.
- High Bandwidth V-Link Client controller.
- Integrated Faster Ethernet LPC.
- Integrated Hardware Sound Blaster/Direct Sound AC'97 audio.
- Ultra DMA 33/66/100 master mode PCI EIDE controller.
- ACPI 1.0B and PCI Bus Power Management 1.1 compliant.
Main Memory
· 3 x 184-pin DDR DIMM slots.
· Supports up to 3GB of DDR266 SDRAM (PC2100/PC1600).
· Supports 2.5v DDR266 SDRAM.
*************************************************************************************

I have the following modules:

1G DDR266, PC100
Module banks: 1
Density 1024x2
Parity No Ecc no
Voltage: SSTL 2.5V/2.6V
Timming:Cycle 7.3 ns (CAS Latency 2.5)
Datawidth:Module: 0x64, Prim. SDRAM x0/x0

2X256M DDR266, PC100

Module banks: 2
Parity No Ecc no
Voltage: SSTL 2.5V/2.6V
Timming:Cycle 7.3 ns (CAS Latency 2.5)
Datawidth:Module: 0x64, Prim. SDRAM x0/x0

The problem:

The BIOS shows only 1GB of installed memory on the motherboard.
If I install only the 1G module the BIOS is reporting 512MB.

The manufacturer lists the module as compatible with

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/p4-series/p4x266a/

Question: what is the difference between p4x266 and p4x266a ?
Why is my memory module not seen entirely ?

Thank you
 
T

The little lost angel

=B7 Supports up to 3GB of DDR266 SDRAM (PC2100/PC1600).
Click to expand...

Without downloading the manual, my guess is it does this with 3 DIMM
double sided 16 chips of 512Mbits = 1024MB each DIMM
I have the following modules:

1G DDR266, PC100
Module banks: 1
Density 1024x2
Click to expand...

But this is a 1024Mbits based DIMM, which means you only have 8 chips
on it right? So while the later A revision can work with 1024mbits
chips, your earlier one can't. Hence it only see the max it can handle
which is 512Mbits x 8 chips = 512MByte like you discovered.
 
N

nobody

Hi everybody

My motherboard's manual can be found here

http://www.via.com.tw/download/mainboards/3/5/p4xb-s-r_v1.3.pdf

The mothreboard is also described here

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/p4-series/p4x266/
....snip...

The problem:

The BIOS shows only 1GB of installed memory on the motherboard.
If I install only the 1G module the BIOS is reporting 512MB.

The manufacturer lists the module as compatible with

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/p4-series/p4x266a/

Question: what is the difference between p4x266 and p4x266a ?
Why is my memory module not seen entirely ?
Click to expand...
The BIOS can't handle high density modules properly, that's why.
Thank you
Click to expand...

RTFM. BIOS update may or may not solve the issue.

NNN
 
N

newsposter

Give me a break...son !
The guy has a store, he has sold tons of items, he has an ebay store
and aparently he is running a good business.
 
T

Tony Hill

This is the item that I bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...PageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT

The image show 16 chips, 8 on each side. I hope I am not wrong.
Click to expand...

The picture I'm seeing shows two completely different memory modules.
Either way, L.Angel is hitting the nail on the head on this one, as
usual. It's a question of memory density, the P4X266A supports higher
density memory chips then your board. Whatever it is that your board
supports is 1 density level too low for this module.

FWIW www.crucial.com lists your board as supporting up to 1GB modules
as long as they are compatible. If you aren't 100% sure about
compatibility I would highly recommend using their memory
configuration tool (or the similar tool from Kingston, Corsair,
Memman, etc). When buying from eBay you're always taking your chances
with these things.
 
N

nobody

Can you please indicate where excatly in the FM is that mentioned ?
Click to expand...

You should not expect others to RTFM for you. It is your need and
your responsibility to locate relevant info in the FM or on OEM web
site.

NNN
 
N

newsposter

Verry constructive reply !
I can expect the others to be polite ! And to support their posts with
some arguments !

The VIA P4XB series mainboards provide 3 sockets for 184-pin, 2.5V DDR
DIMM with 6 memory banks. To operate properly, at least one DIMM module
must be installed.
Memory Installation You can install PC1600/PC2100 DDR SDRAM modules on
the DDR DIMM
slots (DDR 1~3).
DDR266 (Double Data Rate) SDRAM is similar to conventional SDRAM, but
doubles the rate of transfer by transfering data twice per cycle. This
is achieved by transfering
data on both the rising and falling edges of the clock. Conventional
SDRAM only uses the
rising edge of the clock to transferdata .
Therefore, conventional SDRAM is called SDR (Single Data Rate) SDRAM.
DDR SDRAM
uses 2.5 volts as opposed to 3.3 volts used in SDR SDRAM, and requires
184-pin DIMM modules rather than 168-pin DIMM modules used by SDR
SDRAM. DDR266 SDRAM is also known as SDRAM-II, DDR DRAM and DSDRAM
(Double-Speed DRAM). Two types of DDR are available currently: PC1600 &
PC2100. PC1600 DDR SDRAM running at 100MHz will produce
about 1.6GB/s memory bandwidth. PC2100 running at 133MHz will produce
2.1GB/s memory bandwidth. High memory bandwidth makes DDR an ideal
solution for high performance PC, workstations and servers.


This is all the manual says.
I e-mailed the guy, I provided him the model number and the link to the
manual.
He replied saying that "it should work"

So can you tell me what exactly in the above words should have told me
not to buy the module as per your suggestion ?
 
N

newsposter

Hi

I totally agree with you regarding the ebay, but I couldn't find a
store that sells this in my city :-(.
Could you please tell me what makes you believe that the modules are
different ?
I am using Dr. hardware 2005 to read the info about the chips and
apparently my module is "noname".

The tool you mentioned recommends this:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listpa...+Technologies&tabid=AM&model=P4XB-S&submit=Go

which seems to be exactly the model I bought.

Than you
 
T

The little lost angel

This is the item that I bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...PageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT

The image show 16 chips, 8 on each side. I hope I am not wrong.
Click to expand...

It's kinda weird though. Assuming it's the same DIMM being
photographed, the chip packaging are different on the two sides.
Usually they are identical AFAIK. Could you check physically if your
DIMM has chips on both sides, are they of the same type and what's the
chip model number?

What do you mean by 1024x2? There's something wrong with this as it
would make this a 8GB DIMM based on 2Mbits density chips in 1024x2
arrangement for 32 devices.

I've tried to considered the possible reasons for a 16 chip DIMM that
will only show up 512MB on your board and the only two conclusions are

1. some really weird scenario where the PX266 chipset supports only 48
devices (16 per DIMM) but you have a strange 16 package 32 devices
stacked (256Mbits 128x2 chips) DIMM that I dismissed as being too
impractical.

2. More likely, your DIMM is spoilt. :p
 
G

George Macdonald

Verry constructive reply !
I can expect the others to be polite ! And to support their posts with
some arguments !

The VIA P4XB series mainboards provide 3 sockets for 184-pin, 2.5V DDR
DIMM with 6 memory banks. To operate properly, at least one DIMM module
must be installed.
Memory Installation You can install PC1600/PC2100 DDR SDRAM modules on
the DDR DIMM
slots (DDR 1~3).
DDR266 (Double Data Rate) SDRAM is similar to conventional SDRAM, but
doubles the rate of transfer by transfering data twice per cycle. This
is achieved by transfering
data on both the rising and falling edges of the clock. Conventional
SDRAM only uses the
rising edge of the clock to transferdata .
Therefore, conventional SDRAM is called SDR (Single Data Rate) SDRAM.
DDR SDRAM
uses 2.5 volts as opposed to 3.3 volts used in SDR SDRAM, and requires
184-pin DIMM modules rather than 168-pin DIMM modules used by SDR
SDRAM. DDR266 SDRAM is also known as SDRAM-II, DDR DRAM and DSDRAM
(Double-Speed DRAM). Two types of DDR are available currently: PC1600 &
PC2100. PC1600 DDR SDRAM running at 100MHz will produce
about 1.6GB/s memory bandwidth. PC2100 running at 133MHz will produce
2.1GB/s memory bandwidth. High memory bandwidth makes DDR an ideal
solution for high performance PC, workstations and servers.


This is all the manual says.
I e-mailed the guy, I provided him the model number and the link to the
manual.
He replied saying that "it should work"

So can you tell me what exactly in the above words should have told me
not to buy the module as per your suggestion ?
Click to expand...

While the specs may eventually reveal some incompatibility, the point is
that it's impossible to figure out with current info, since the DIMM is
anonymous in both its maker and the chip source.

You have told us that the DIMM should have 8 chips per side and provided a
link to photos which do not make sense: the two photos are of different
parts - one photo is a normal sized DIMM with TSOP chips... the other is a
low profile DIMM with BGA chips. Furthermore you apparently have the DIMM
in your system so you should be able to say with certainty *exactly* how
many chips are on it and how they are distributed by side.

Even if there are 8 chips per side that is no guarantee that they are
organized correctly - there have been "manufacturers" who have put a single
rank of 16 chips (8 on each side) on a DIMM where each chip is only x4 bits
wide - they *have* been known to call that a "high density DIMM". Such
unbuffered DIMMs do not conform to industry standards.
 
N

newsposter

Hi

Please see all the pictures for the real chips. I took the pictures
this morning.
Now there is no doubts "what you see is what I have" :)

Thank you very much for your help so far guys.

http://72.136.41.133/MB/
 
N

newsposter

Hi

Please see all the pictures for the real chips. I took the pictures
this morning.
Now there is no doubts "what you see is what I have" :)

Thank you very much for your help so far guys.

http://72.136.41.133/MB/
 
T

The little lost angel

Please see all the pictures for the real chips. I took the pictures
this morning.
Now there is no doubts "what you see is what I have" :)

Thank you very much for your help so far guys.

http://72.136.41.133/MB/
Click to expand...

Is there a possibility you have been had?

The pictures on this site looks similar to yours so I assume I got the
correct company.

Their information here however seems to indicate they don't have a 1GB
DDR product.
http://www.advancemodules.com/ddrdimm.htm

Given that they have included DDR2 on the list, it can't be that
outdated.

Though it seems strange to me why they have a registered office in my
back yard instead of just in "their" China or M'sia facilities.
 
N

newsposter

I will drop them an e-mail to see if this is true or my modules are
fake.
The guy has (as I mentioned before) a kind of virtual store. I must be
able to claim my money back if the product is fake.
The Ebay has a kind of arbitration forum and I will open the issue
there if I can not get my money back.

Other that that what I posted looks ok to you isn't it ? I mean it has
chips on each side, the number you expected and the board acording with
the manufacturer's specs should support the module. It may be the
module with problems.

Thank you
 
G

George Macdonald

Hi

Please see all the pictures for the real chips. I took the pictures
this morning.
Now there is no doubts "what you see is what I have" :)

Thank you very much for your help so far guys.

http://72.136.41.133/MB/
Click to expand...

OK... first, it appears that "someone" has tried somewhat successfully to
obliterate the markings on the chips, though I *can* make out "128Mx4" on
one of the chips. This would confirm what I suspected, as does your
drhardware report... that the 1GB is a single rank of all 16 chips, on
*both* sides of the module. This configuration is "supported" by VIA
chipsets (but *not* Intel) but is not covered by the JEDEC industry
standard for an unbuffered DIMM; even with VIA chipsets, the support is
limited in that more than one DIMM per system gets flakey.

Note that the ebay link to the DIMM specifies only VIA and SiS chipsets -
that should have been another clue to avoid those things: if it doesn't say
it works with an Intel chipset or AMD64 CPU, pass. This page:
http://www.emartbuy.com/us/catalog/item/miscl/itemDetail.aspx?itemId=383
which is linked to for the pics on ebay is a lie - the modules are *not*
JEDEC compliant... which may be a good excuse to return them.
 
T

Tony Hill

Hi

I totally agree with you regarding the ebay, but I couldn't find a
store that sells this in my city :-(.
Could you please tell me what makes you believe that the modules are
different ?
Click to expand...

Looking at the two big pictures in the middle of that ad shows two
different memory modules. The top one shows a module using very
rectangular chips in a TSOP packaging:

http://www.emartbuy.com/us/console/imagepool/products/1095.jpg

The second picture shows more square memory chips in a BGA packaging.

http://www.emartbuy.com/us/console/imagepool/products/1139.jpg

I suppose that it might be possible that this is actually just two
sides of the same module, but I would *HIGHLY* doubt it.
I am using Dr. hardware 2005 to read the info about the chips and
apparently my module is "noname".
Click to expand...

Not at all surprising.
The tool you mentioned recommends this:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listpa...+Technologies&tabid=AM&model=P4XB-S&submit=Go

which seems to be exactly the model I bought.
Click to expand...

The difference being that the one from Crucial would probably work as
a full 1GB memory module on your system (assuming that their
configurator isn't wrong.. and it's usually pretty darn good).
 
T

Tony Hill

This is all the manual says.
I e-mailed the guy, I provided him the model number and the link to the
manual.
He replied saying that "it should work"

So can you tell me what exactly in the above words should have told me
not to buy the module as per your suggestion ?
Click to expand...

I read the manual, and it doesn't specify anywhere what density of
memory chips it supports. This is normal, and that is exactly why I
would recommend NOT buying unknown memory modules off e-Bay unless you
REALLY know this stuff. The specs in the e-Bay ad say the following:

"DIMM (DUAL IN-LINE MEMORY 128 X 4) HIGH DENSITY"

This to me suggests that they are 16 chips arranged in a 4-bit wide
configuration.


The other bit of info from the ad is the following:


"If your motherboard does not support High density memory - it will
not work or only read as 512MB."
(listed in the gray box just above the return policy)

Of course, "high density" is a very relative term. 10 years ago
64Mbit chips were "high density". 5 years ago it was 256Mbit chips
that were "high density". Now apparently he's referring to either
512Mbit or 1Gbit chips.


<edit>
I just had a look at the pictures you linked in another message.
Unfortunately we can't really get much info from them because this
"Advanced Modules" company has managed to scrub off the actual
markings on the memory chips and replace them with their own (or they
bought some bottom-of-the-barrel chips without markings on them in the
first place).

However George's comments seem to be pretty much right on the money
here, this module looks like it was assembled in a way that violates
the JEDED DDR memory specifications. As such, support for this module
is going to be VERY hit and miss.


I would recommend a quick reading on this page, linked from the seller
of these memory modules:

http://www.sarafchirag.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Notworkingmodule.htm

The seller does at least seem to be aware of the problems with selling
memory that violates JEDEC specifications.
 

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