Very OT: New Mac TV add, some thoughts & questions.

[DJ Bjorklund]

Sorry, but I have to do this...

As a long-time Windows user, I'm often struck by the Mac ads and the
claims made therein. As you may know, in this ad we've the two guys
both sitting in boxes, obviously playing the parts of a Mac (white
box) and we assume your basic WinPC (plain cardboard box). Their
discussion centers around the theme of how the Mac is ready "right out
of the box", and the WinPC has to get configured, find drivers,
generally cause a lot of strife, etc., etc.

I'll preface my question(s) with stating that I've never sat down at
really any Apple product, let alone the newer generation Macs, and
used it. Obviously I'm not in education or graphic arts, but
manufacturing, and by extension a home WinPC person.

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

2.) If they are, all the "Bill Gates/Evil Empire controls the world"
stuff aside, why doesn't the market work and get one, or at home, two
or three more, in front of me? (Of course I could postulate that the
education and artistic communities would suggest that I've already
answered the question within question #2, but I digress ;-)

Yes, I surely know that last one is a roughly a 55 gallon barrel of
worms, but l still want at least a couple shots at an answer.

 

[R.U. Zerious]

The short answer is - That's called "marketing". Marketing has nothing to do
with reality.

 

[Ground Cover]

The Mac ads talks as if they are comparing Pentium 133s running Windows 95
with modern Apples Macs running OSX.

But Windows PC just don't cash that often anymore. And preconfigured PCs are
widely available and, out-of-the-box, need no drivers installed.

The ads also fail to mention that there are a growing number of malwares
that exploit Mac OSX vulnerabilites.

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

As far as being ready "out of the box," if one company makes both the
hardware and the software, as is the case with Apple, I would expect nothing
less. Not so at all with Windows, as there are literally thousands of
different hardware configurations, and Windows is expected to make
everything run regardless of the hardware configuration. The fact that
Windows can do this reasonably well, in itself is mind-boggling! It seems
to me that the two are really not comparable because of this huge
difference.

And contrary to popular belief, Apple does issue software patches as well;
they just don't make press-releases about them.

As far as I know, the build quality of Apple computers is considered to be
very high.

I do own an Apple computer. It is an Apple Lisa, built in 1983. It still
works. I don't use it too much anymore, though.

 

[Dennis Pack x64, v64B2 \(5384\), OPP2007B2]

DJ:
It's hard to find MAC or Linux groups because their time is spent telling
everybody how bad Windows' is and bragging about how secure their systems
are. Security is also a farce with Linux and MAC because hacking these
systems can only effect 3% of the market where hacking Windows' can affect
97% of the market. An old saying that's older than me (and that's going
some) is that no matter what locks you use all you will do is keep an honest
man honest. If you look at subversion or demonstrations the goal is to have
the biggest effect for the least cost. In the repair industry great efforts
are made to correct issues that happen with over 10% of the products not
with issues that affect less than 1% of the product. Getting the biggest
bang for the buck is normal. Another fear can be that if Vista is a stable
improvement it will diminish the numbers of smaller systems.

 

[Bernie]

I think it was the Pepsi man at Apple in the 80s who is primarily
responsible for the fact that the world prefers Wintel boxes over Macs.
They had more than five (5) years, FIVE YEARS, to sell their GUI and
they failed miserably because they went for high profits per box rather
than going for high market share.

These ads contain more than a little blame, shame and regret.

 

[Steve Maser]

Sorry, but I have to do this...

Oh, fine -- I'll bite. As a sys admin supporting about 1000 different
computers (of which about 80% are various Wintel boxes, 15% are Macs
and the rest UNIX/Linux boxes...)

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

IN GENERAL. And let me say this again: IN GENERAL:

No computer is bullet-proof. All computers will have problems of one
kind or another -- particularly if you expose them to the internet.

But...


Macs have fewer problems.

If you have to *reformat a computer from scratch* -- Macs have all the
drivers on the install CD for *all* the hardware up and down the line
(just about -- Apple *could* refresh their 10.4.x "generic" CD a bit
more often than they do...)


Take a slipstreamed Windows XP SP2 CD and install Windows on a "white
box". I guarantee you, you'll be spending a significant chunk of time
finding drivers.

If you are lucky (and most days you are *not*), the Wintel vendor may
have been so kind as to actually ship "recovery media" with the
computer. Most companies are not even doing that much these days to
save costs and if a user blows up the hard disk -- forget the recovery
"partition". If the user forgets to make the "recovery CD/DVD" from
the vendor software *cough*SONY*cough* -- factor in a call to tech
support to see if you can get a copy of their recovery CD/DVD. For
another $20.

And don't get me started on vendors *cough*SONY*cough* who release new
hardware models and *DO NOT* put device drivers for them on their web
site.

Or all the small "form factor" DELL computers that continually overheat
and blow capacitors resulting in 15% hardware failure rates within 6
months...

But I digress...

2.) If they are, all the "Bill Gates/Evil Empire controls the world"
stuff aside, why doesn't the market work and get one, or at home, two
or three more, in front of me? (Of course I could postulate that the
education and artistic communities would suggest that I've already
answered the question within question #2, but I digress ;-)

Yes, I surely know that last one is a roughly a 55 gallon barrel of
worms, but l still want at least a couple shots at an answer.

As said before. Marketing, marketing, marketing. And games. And
porn. Games and porn drive computer technology. I'm sure you can get
just as much porn on a Mac as a PC. You just can't always get the same
games.


Oh, and all the stupid-ass web sites that will not conform to standards
and require "Active X", etc. That's the other thing that sticks in my
craw. If there was less of this being done in corporate IT, you'd see
more use of alternative operating systems.


But -- supporting all these computers -- I can count on one hand the
number of Macs that have had significant "problems" that required a
"reformat on general principles"-reformat.

Many of the "power" PC users have us reformat their computers every 6-8
months because they "slow down".


Take it as you will...

- Steve

 

[DJ Bjorklund]

What an excellent point Mark.
Mental note: Think it through and look for the obvious prior to
posting DJ ;-)

 

[Mark D. VandenBeg]

Thanks, DJ. Something about a squirrel and a nut comes to mind, though.

 

[William R. Mosher]

Those commercials are just so much marketing. Now the new iMacs are the best looking computers in the market and the fact that they can run Windows is a plus, but the best and greatest games are for Windows and not OS X.

In answer to the questions;

1) they are just as prone to hardware failure as any other computer.

2) If Microsoft is the 'Evil Empire' then why do they make it possible to run Windows on their computers? The answer is because Apple is primarily a hardware company and that is where it gets its profits from.

William
Sorry, but I have to do this...

As a long-time Windows user, I'm often struck by the Mac ads and the
claims made therein. As you may know, in this ad we've the two guys
both sitting in boxes, obviously playing the parts of a Mac (white
box) and we assume your basic WinPC (plain cardboard box). Their
discussion centers around the theme of how the Mac is ready "right out
of the box", and the WinPC has to get configured, find drivers,
generally cause a lot of strife, etc., etc.

I'll preface my question(s) with stating that I've never sat down at
really any Apple product, let alone the newer generation Macs, and
used it. Obviously I'm not in education or graphic arts, but
manufacturing, and by extension a home WinPC person.

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

2.) If they are, all the "Bill Gates/Evil Empire controls the world"
stuff aside, why doesn't the market work and get one, or at home, two
or three more, in front of me? (Of course I could postulate that the
education and artistic communities would suggest that I've already
answered the question within question #2, but I digress ;-)

Yes, I surely know that last one is a roughly a 55 gallon barrel of
worms, but l still want at least a couple shots at an answer.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I got an astounding number of vulnerability patches and bug fixes for my
MacBook Pro last month. At least half were just for vulnerabilites. It
isn't only the OS. All the bundled software like Safari, etc., were
included. There were somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 updates, compared
to 11 for Windows. I have not seen this month's crop from Apple.

Folks also forget that each tic upward (annually) from 10.0 to 10.4 (the
series of cats now at Tiger) cost $129. I have not paid a cent for the
service packs for XP in the same time frame. 10.5 (Leopard) is due out late
this year.

Now, before you say it, Tiger did come pre-installed on my MacBook Pro, but
I had already purchased it for the G3 iBook I gave to one of my grandsons.
I am still out over $600 for OS/X over the past five or six years.

I'm not complaining, but I want to set the record straight.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Maybe they are just marketing, but they can hurt and they can score. They dovetail nicely with all the urban legends about Windows that have ever been out there.

BUT, if MS doesn't get UAC to at least look a little friendlier I expect to see the following "I'm a Mac" ad:

"I'm a Mac," says the cool dude. (The frumpy PC guy just fades out for a few seconds) "Can I have permission to speak?"
Those commercials are just so much marketing. Now the new iMacs are the best looking computers in the market and the fact that they can run Windows is a plus, but the best and greatest games are for Windows and not OS X.

In answer to the questions;

1) they are just as prone to hardware failure as any other computer.

2) If Microsoft is the 'Evil Empire' then why do they make it possible to run Windows on their computers? The answer is because Apple is primarily a hardware company and that is where it gets its profits from.

William
Sorry, but I have to do this...

As a long-time Windows user, I'm often struck by the Mac ads and the
claims made therein. As you may know, in this ad we've the two guys
both sitting in boxes, obviously playing the parts of a Mac (white
box) and we assume your basic WinPC (plain cardboard box). Their
discussion centers around the theme of how the Mac is ready "right out
of the box", and the WinPC has to get configured, find drivers,
generally cause a lot of strife, etc., etc.

I'll preface my question(s) with stating that I've never sat down at
really any Apple product, let alone the newer generation Macs, and
used it. Obviously I'm not in education or graphic arts, but
manufacturing, and by extension a home WinPC person.

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

2.) If they are, all the "Bill Gates/Evil Empire controls the world"
stuff aside, why doesn't the market work and get one, or at home, two
or three more, in front of me? (Of course I could postulate that the
education and artistic communities would suggest that I've already
answered the question within question #2, but I digress ;-)

Yes, I surely know that last one is a roughly a 55 gallon barrel of
worms, but l still want at least a couple shots at an answer.

 

[Bernie]

That was brilliant.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

That was brilliant.

 

[Lang Murphy]

DJ,

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

A salient point that I haven't seen made elsewhere in this thread, although
it might have been made and I didn't catch it... is that if you're
experienced with a specific hardware/software platform, things are easier
for you than they are for newbies coming to that platform. Read an article
just yesterday on PC Mag site about this guy getting a new Mac because he
wants to try out Boot Camp and he had numerous issues setting up Mac
networking, etc. because he is not an experienced Mac user. Had to go off
and search NG's to get answers. Now if the guy's writing for PC Mag, he must
have, at the very least, a nodding acquaintance with computers, no? But even
he runs into issues when setting up his new Mac.

And... don't get me wrong... if I could afford to, I'd buy a Mac. But I can
get soooo much more computing power by buying WinTel that's it a no-brainer
until I win the Lottery or Mac prices come down significantly. For $500 last
year I got an eMachine with an AMD chip, a gig of RAM and 360GB hd (2
drives), DVD-RW and 7in1 card reader. Yeah, it's got shared video RAM, but I
can install a stand alone video card (which wasn't an available feature on
many other PC's in the same price range...). Last year I could've gotten a
Mac Mini with 256MB RAM and a, gee, I forget, but a pretty small HD for
multimedia purposes... Like I said... no-brainer.

I gotta say, I like the Mac commercials. Very funny. And, for me, the thing
that makes them funny is that the WinTel guy looks like Bill Gates and the
Mac guy looks like Steve Jobs. Hilarious!

Lang

 

[William R. Mosher]

I wonder why Apple does not show which one can play the latest and greatest games?

William

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

A salient point that I haven't seen made elsewhere in this thread, although
it might have been made and I didn't catch it... is that if you're
experienced with a specific hardware/software platform, things are easier
for you than they are for newbies coming to that platform. Read an article
just yesterday on PC Mag site about this guy getting a new Mac because he
wants to try out Boot Camp and he had numerous issues setting up Mac
networking, etc. because he is not an experienced Mac user. Had to go off
and search NG's to get answers. Now if the guy's writing for PC Mag, he must
have, at the very least, a nodding acquaintance with computers, no? But even
he runs into issues when setting up his new Mac.

And... don't get me wrong... if I could afford to, I'd buy a Mac. But I can
get soooo much more computing power by buying WinTel that's it a no-brainer
until I win the Lottery or Mac prices come down significantly. For $500 last
year I got an eMachine with an AMD chip, a gig of RAM and 360GB hd (2
drives), DVD-RW and 7in1 card reader. Yeah, it's got shared video RAM, but I
can install a stand alone video card (which wasn't an available feature on
many other PC's in the same price range...). Last year I could've gotten a
Mac Mini with 256MB RAM and a, gee, I forget, but a pretty small HD for
multimedia purposes... Like I said... no-brainer.

I gotta say, I like the Mac commercials. Very funny. And, for me, the thing
that makes them funny is that the WinTel guy looks like Bill Gates and the
Mac guy looks like Steve Jobs. Hilarious!

Lang

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Hmmm.....
I wonder why Apple does not show which one can play the latest and greatest games?

William

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

A salient point that I haven't seen made elsewhere in this thread, although
it might have been made and I didn't catch it... is that if you're
experienced with a specific hardware/software platform, things are easier
for you than they are for newbies coming to that platform. Read an article
just yesterday on PC Mag site about this guy getting a new Mac because he
wants to try out Boot Camp and he had numerous issues setting up Mac
networking, etc. because he is not an experienced Mac user. Had to go off
and search NG's to get answers. Now if the guy's writing for PC Mag, he must
have, at the very least, a nodding acquaintance with computers, no? But even
he runs into issues when setting up his new Mac.

And... don't get me wrong... if I could afford to, I'd buy a Mac. But I can
get soooo much more computing power by buying WinTel that's it a no-brainer
until I win the Lottery or Mac prices come down significantly. For $500 last
year I got an eMachine with an AMD chip, a gig of RAM and 360GB hd (2
drives), DVD-RW and 7in1 card reader. Yeah, it's got shared video RAM, but I
can install a stand alone video card (which wasn't an available feature on
many other PC's in the same price range...). Last year I could've gotten a
Mac Mini with 256MB RAM and a, gee, I forget, but a pretty small HD for
multimedia purposes... Like I said... no-brainer.

I gotta say, I like the Mac commercials. Very funny. And, for me, the thing
that makes them funny is that the WinTel guy looks like Bill Gates and the
Mac guy looks like Steve Jobs. Hilarious!

Lang

 

[MICHAEL]

Why can't Apple computers play games well?

Are they able to, but the software companies just
don't write them for Macs?

-Michael

I wonder why Apple does not show which one can play the latest and greatest games?

William
DJ,

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

A salient point that I haven't seen made elsewhere in this thread, although
it might have been made and I didn't catch it... is that if you're
experienced with a specific hardware/software platform, things are easier
for you than they are for newbies coming to that platform. Read an article
just yesterday on PC Mag site about this guy getting a new Mac because he
wants to try out Boot Camp and he had numerous issues setting up Mac
networking, etc. because he is not an experienced Mac user. Had to go off
and search NG's to get answers. Now if the guy's writing for PC Mag, he must
have, at the very least, a nodding acquaintance with computers, no? But even
he runs into issues when setting up his new Mac.

And... don't get me wrong... if I could afford to, I'd buy a Mac. But I can
get soooo much more computing power by buying WinTel that's it a no-brainer
until I win the Lottery or Mac prices come down significantly. For $500 last
year I got an eMachine with an AMD chip, a gig of RAM and 360GB hd (2
drives), DVD-RW and 7in1 card reader. Yeah, it's got shared video RAM, but I
can install a stand alone video card (which wasn't an available feature on
many other PC's in the same price range...). Last year I could've gotten a
Mac Mini with 256MB RAM and a, gee, I forget, but a pretty small HD for
multimedia purposes... Like I said... no-brainer.

I gotta say, I like the Mac commercials. Very funny. And, for me, the thing
that makes them funny is that the WinTel guy looks like Bill Gates and the
Mac guy looks like Steve Jobs. Hilarious!

Lang

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Its all about the market share. Of course the Intel Macs can dual boot XP
and run the games. (I do)

 

[William R. Mosher]

From what I have read, Apple iMacs cannot hold a candle compared to Alienware's computers when it comes to gaming.

William
Why can't Apple computers play games well?

Are they able to, but the software companies just
don't write them for Macs?

-Michael

I wonder why Apple does not show which one can play the latest and greatest games?

William
DJ,

Questions:
1.) Are the Macs so wonderfully bullet-proof and beyond reproach
performance wise, that they are literally a wholly different, and by
comparison, problem free experience such that, for instance, there is
no need or reason for, say, groups (or perhaps I'll say as many) just
like this one,...or aren't they really that incredible?

A salient point that I haven't seen made elsewhere in this thread, although
it might have been made and I didn't catch it... is that if you're
experienced with a specific hardware/software platform, things are easier
for you than they are for newbies coming to that platform. Read an article
just yesterday on PC Mag site about this guy getting a new Mac because he
wants to try out Boot Camp and he had numerous issues setting up Mac
networking, etc. because he is not an experienced Mac user. Had to go off
and search NG's to get answers. Now if the guy's writing for PC Mag, he must
have, at the very least, a nodding acquaintance with computers, no? But even
he runs into issues when setting up his new Mac.

And... don't get me wrong... if I could afford to, I'd buy a Mac. But I can
get soooo much more computing power by buying WinTel that's it a no-brainer
until I win the Lottery or Mac prices come down significantly. For $500 last
year I got an eMachine with an AMD chip, a gig of RAM and 360GB hd (2
drives), DVD-RW and 7in1 card reader. Yeah, it's got shared video RAM, but I
can install a stand alone video card (which wasn't an available feature on
many other PC's in the same price range...). Last year I could've gotten a
Mac Mini with 256MB RAM and a, gee, I forget, but a pretty small HD for
multimedia purposes... Like I said... no-brainer.

I gotta say, I like the Mac commercials. Very funny. And, for me, the thing
that makes them funny is that the WinTel guy looks like Bill Gates and the
Mac guy looks like Steve Jobs. Hilarious!

Lang