# Very Interesting video - worth a watch

D

#### Dustin

capacitor and the other to the chassis turns the 3000 or so AC into
5000+DC at 1.5+ ampers with a square wave. That has a very real
potential of killing you if you come in contact with it while
energized or even when unplugged due to the HV capacitor required to
assist the High voltage transformer.

I incorrectly described the circuit in use. It's a half wave voltage
doubler, but it's producing 5000+ volts with amps! DO NOT touch those
magnetron terminals with it energized. Very good chance it'll be a lethal
experience.

Note the unusual circuit configuration - the magnetron is across the
diode, not the capacitor as in a 'normal' power supply. What this means is
that the peak voltage across the magnetron is the transformer secondary +
the voltage across the capacitor, so the peaks will approach the peak-peak
value of the transformer or nearly 5000 V in the example above. This is a
half wave voltage doubler. The output waveform looks like a sinusoid with
a p-p voltage equal to the p-p voltage of the transformer secondary with
its positive peaks at chassis ground (no load). The peaks are negative
with respect to the chassis. The negative peaks will get squashed somewhat
under load. Take extreme care - up to 5000 V at AMPs available! WARNING:
Never attempt to view this waveform on an oscilloscope unless you have a
commercial high voltage probe and know how to use it safely!

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/micfaq.htm#micmicgenc

B

#### Bear

you become ground? What? You completed a circuit if touching both
terminals. No ground required if you do that.

basic 101 electronics...define complete a circuit...source to ground or
positive to negative if that really exists ... it's really just terms. It's
actually a path of flow and which way it flows isn't really technically
correct either .... ground meaning return. Your comment is synonomous.

B

#### Bear

I incorrectly described the circuit in use. It's a half wave voltage
doubler, but it's producing 5000+ volts with amps! DO NOT touch those
magnetron terminals with it energized. Very good chance it'll be a
lethal experience.

Note the unusual circuit configuration - the magnetron is across the
diode, not the capacitor as in a 'normal' power supply. What this
means is that the peak voltage across the magnetron is the transformer
secondary + the voltage across the capacitor, so the peaks will
approach the peak-peak value of the transformer or nearly 5000 V in
the example above. This is a half wave voltage doubler. The output
waveform looks like a sinusoid with a p-p voltage equal to the p-p
voltage of the transformer secondary with its positive peaks at
chassis ground (no load). The peaks are negative with respect to the
chassis. The negative peaks will get squashed somewhat under load.
Take extreme care - up to 5000 V at AMPs available! WARNING: Never
attempt to view this waveform on an oscilloscope unless you have a
commercial high voltage probe and know how to use it safely!

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/micfaq.htm#micmicgenc

Capacitors store power or electricity or whatever you want to call the
energy. So a de-engized circuit can still release the energy stored if
you complete the circuit, i.e. provide a ground or return...same thing.
You are talking about energized circuits.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-
mail

D

#### Dustin

basic 101 electronics...define complete a circuit...source to ground
or positive to negative if that really exists ... it's really just
terms. It's actually a path of flow and which way it flows isn't
really technically correct either .... ground meaning return. Your
comment is synonomous.

Source directly to ground is a dead short. Positive directly to negative,
is again, a dead short. Terms are important.

D

#### Dustin

Capacitors store power or electricity or whatever you want to call the
energy. So a de-engized circuit can still release the energy stored if
you complete the circuit, i.e. provide a ground or return...same thing.
You are talking about energized circuits.

I'm talking about the fact the popcorn making microwave oven common in
many households generates enough current to kill somebody if they touch
the wrong components while it's (a) energized or (b) not properly
discharged. That's all.

B

#### Bear

Source directly to ground is a dead short. Positive directly to
negative, is again, a dead short. Terms are important.

Of course they are and we were not talking about an empty circuit were
we. So comprehension is important as well.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-
mail

B

#### Bear

I'm talking about the fact the popcorn making microwave oven common in
many households generates enough current to kill somebody if they
touch the wrong components while it's (a) energized or (b) not
properly discharged. That's all.

and you would be right as well as many appliances and tools...110 volts
kills all the time, you don't just need induction or high capacity
capcitors or transformers.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-
mail

D

#### Dustin

Of course they are and we were not talking about an empty circuit were
we. So comprehension is important as well.

I misworded it. Source directly to ground is well, grounded. Not good.
Positive to negative, direct short.. very bad.

I wasn't talking about an empty circuit. I was explaining to ray why
touching components inside the microwave could be fatal. Comprehension
is important, no doubt. It helps if we're both talking about the same
things tho.

D

#### Dustin

and you would be right as well as many appliances and tools...110
volts kills all the time, you don't just need induction or high
capacity capcitors or transformers.

110volts will kill somebody who has heart issues, most likely tho, it'l
either try and hold you or make you let go because your fingers hurt.

The microwave tho, she's one of the most dangerous appliances you can
ever own.

B

#### Bear Bottom's

The microwave tho, she's one of the most dangerous appliances you can
ever own.

Wrong. You shouldn't teach people how to drive... that's the most dangerous
thing anyone on the planet can do. You should always hire an 'expert' and
let them kill you.

--
Bear
http://bearware.nfo
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotty.org!filter.dotty.org!news.dotty.org!not-for-
mail

B

#### Bear

I misworded it. Source directly to ground is well, grounded. Not good.
Positive to negative, direct short.. very bad.

I wasn't talking about an empty circuit. I was explaining to ray why
touching components inside the microwave could be fatal. Comprehension
is important, no doubt. It helps if we're both talking about the same
things tho.

Fair enough. Circuits flow from positive to negative (or negative to
positive depending on which theory you choose to accept) and the
componants inbetween determine the outcome. If one interjects himself as
a ground, the energy will discharge through him, be it stored energy or
from an energized circuit.

People thinking they are safe from a de-energized circuit may be in for
a zaprise.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-
mail

B

#### Bear

110volts will kill somebody who has heart issues, most likely tho,
it'l either try and hold you or make you let go because your fingers
hurt.

The microwave tho, she's one of the most dangerous appliances you can
ever own.

1 milliamp you can feel, 10 milliamps can tighten your muscles so much
that you can't let go, and 100 milliamps can kill you. 10 milli amps
through the heart can kill you even if you don't have a heart condition.

The current (or speed of electricity) is the determining factor.
Most household current can deliver up to about 12 amps as in not milli
amps. Appliances dropped into bathtubs kill all the time...even though
the current is stepped down in these appliances, dropping them into the
water allows the full available energy to the appliance.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with anti-virus'.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-
mail

B

#### Bear

Wrong. You shouldn't teach people how to drive... that's the most
dangerous thing anyone on the planet can do. You should always hire an
'expert' and let them kill you.

LOL...if only Diana knew this.

F

#### FromTheRafters

Bear said:
1 milliamp you can feel, 10 milliamps can tighten your muscles so much
that you can't let go, and 100 milliamps can kill you. 10 milli amps
through the heart can kill you even if you don't have a heart condition.

The current (or speed of electricity) is the determining factor.
Most household current can deliver up to about 12 amps as in not milli
amps. Appliances dropped into bathtubs kill all the time...even though
the current is stepped down in these appliances, dropping them into the
water allows the full available energy to the appliance.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with anti-virus'.

and ... you're wrong on several points.

D

B

#### Bear

and ... you're wrong on several points.

Such as....this should be interesting.