Using a USB to HDMI adapter to use a TV screen as a third monitorfor a Dell Optiplex 3010


T

t

Currently, the Optiplex 3010 is connected to two flat panel Dell
monitors(Dell Professional P2012H 20" Monitor with LED) via DVI.

1. Can a USB to HDMI adapter like C2G USB 2.0 to HDMI Adapter With Audio
Up to 1080p

http://www.staples.com/C2G-USB-20-to-HDMI-Adapter-With-Audio-Up-to-1080p/product_IM1PV0156
work for using a lg-47LN5400-led-tv TV
screen(http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-47LN5400-led-tv) as the third monitor
for a Dell Optiplex 3010(small form factor and it has a AMD radeon 7000
graphics card) desktop

I understand we would need a 25 feet HDMI cable like
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882422010 to
connect the TV screen to the desktop.

The typical usage is so that if the user is writing an e-mail, the
e-mail message can remain only on monitors 1 and 2 which are Dell
Professional P2012H 20" Monitor with LED, but he can display a
presentation on the TV screen to the audience in his room. On some
cases, he should also be able to duplicate what is on monitor 1 or 2, if
that is possible.

2. Would getting a IOGEAR Wireless 1080p Computer to HD Display Kit with
1 HD Output & 1 VGA Output like
http://www.provantage.com/iogear-guwavkit4~7IOG90EH.htm be better so
that we don't need the 25 feet HDMI cable and the TV screen can be still
used as third monitor?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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P

Paul

t said:
Currently, the Optiplex 3010 is connected to two flat panel Dell
monitors(Dell Professional P2012H 20" Monitor with LED) via DVI.

1. Can a USB to HDMI adapter like C2G USB 2.0 to HDMI Adapter With Audio
Up to 1080p

http://www.staples.com/C2G-USB-20-to-HDMI-Adapter-With-Audio-Up-to-1080p/product_IM1PV0156

work for using a lg-47LN5400-led-tv TV
screen(http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-47LN5400-led-tv) as the third monitor
for a Dell Optiplex 3010(small form factor and it has a AMD radeon 7000
graphics card) desktop

I understand we would need a 25 feet HDMI cable like
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882422010 to
connect the TV screen to the desktop.

The typical usage is so that if the user is writing an e-mail, the
e-mail message can remain only on monitors 1 and 2 which are Dell
Professional P2012H 20" Monitor with LED, but he can display a
presentation on the TV screen to the audience in his room. On some
cases, he should also be able to duplicate what is on monitor 1 or 2, if
that is possible.

2. Would getting a IOGEAR Wireless 1080p Computer to HD Display Kit with
1 HD Output & 1 VGA Output like
http://www.provantage.com/iogear-guwavkit4~7IOG90EH.htm be better so
that we don't need the 25 feet HDMI cable and the TV screen can be still
used as third monitor?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Check the back of the computer, for an HDMI connector
already in the I/O plate area of the 3010 SFF machine.

The HDMI works, if the CPU type has a GPU inside. It's
like the machine has two video cards. The HD7470 or HD7570
option for the machine, would be one of the video output
devices. But the Intel CPUs, at least some of them, have
a GPU inside. Check Device Manager for evidence of it.
The Dell OS should have installed a driver for it.

This article on HDMI, addresses how long the cable can be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Cables

"With better quality construction and materials, including
24 AWG conductors, an HDMI cable can reach lengths of up
to 15 meters (49 ft)."

The TV does 1080p60.

http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-47LN5400-led-tv

Using this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvi

HDTV (1,920 × 1,080) @ 60 Hz with CVT-RB blanking (139 MHz)

That tells you, when the HDMI article talks of 74.5MHz and
340MHz, this application is between the two. The higher the clock
rate, the more impact on the length of the cable. I think
chances are good of getting something to work. If you were
running an Apple Cinema 30" display at 2560, things might be
different.

And while the machine has HDMI and VGA in the I/O plate area,
I can't really verify it can run two monitors at the same time,
There are claims it can, but I have a suspicion the outputs
used are two halves of a DVI-I interface. I don't know if the
Intel crossbar is flexible enough to do the right thing
(run them independent) or not. But since you're running two
monitors off the PCI Express video card, and will be running
a third off the Intel GPU, there's no need to worry about whether
a fourth monitor can be run.

*******

And if you were seriously contemplating USB for video, you'd
want one of the new USB3 versions. USB3 provides better headroom
and the display would be less limited in multimedia capability.
It would then depend, on whether your PCI Express x1 slot in
the SFF was empty or not, to fit a USB3 card to drive it. I
have a USB3 card here that's small enough to fit in that SFF,
and has two faceplates for low profile or regular height applications.

(USB3 video)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815101012

I would need to do more research, to be able to tell the USB2
ones from the USB3 ones. Because with the arrival of
a USB3 capable chip, surely the other manufacturers will put
a powder blue connector on theirs, and try and fool you
into buying their USB2 one instead :-( That scam has been
tried in the past, during the USB1.1 to USB2 transition.
USB1.1 devices labeled "USB2" by scumbags.

If it turns out your CPU doesn't have a GPU, then the PCI Express
USB3 card, plus USB3 to video, you could use the USB3 cable to
handle part of the distance, and the HDMI cable to handle the
rest. The longest "safe" USB3 cable is six feet, with some
ten foot ones also being available. You could use a six foot USB3
cable and a nineteen foot HDMI cable, to span 25 feet.

Paul
 
T

t

Check the back of the computer, for an HDMI connector
already in the I/O plate area of the 3010 SFF machine.

The HDMI works, if the CPU type has a GPU inside. It's
like the machine has two video cards. The HD7470 or HD7570
option for the machine, would be one of the video output
devices. But the Intel CPUs, at least some of them, have
a GPU inside. Check Device Manager for evidence of it.
The Dell OS should have installed a driver for it.

Thanks Paul,

The HDMI does not work as there is no GPU in the CPU.

*******

And if you were seriously contemplating USB for video, you'd
want one of the new USB3 versions. USB3 provides better headroom
and the display would be less limited in multimedia capability.
It would then depend, on whether your PCI Express x1 slot in
the SFF was empty or not, to fit a USB3 card to drive it. I
have a USB3 card here that's small enough to fit in that SFF,
and has two faceplates for low profile or regular height applications.

(USB3 video)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815101012

Well, the optiplex 3010 does not have any USB 3.0 I checked the
manual/Device manager and could not find it. So, my option is to use
something like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UKG4KU/
Sabrent USB 2.0 to HDMI Adpter for Multiple Monitors
I would need to do more research, to be able to tell the USB2
ones from the USB3 ones. Because with the arrival of
a USB3 capable chip, surely the other manufacturers will put
a powder blue connector on theirs, and try and fool you
into buying their USB2 one instead :-( That scam has been
tried in the past, during the USB1.1 to USB2 transition.
USB1.1 devices labeled "USB2" by scumbags.


Yes, but USB 3.0 should have secondary set of five contacts inside which
the USB 2.0 lacks. That can be another way of identifying USB 3.0. Also,
using the device manager/manual of the computer is another option.
If it turns out your CPU doesn't have a GPU, then the PCI Express
USB3 card, plus USB3 to video, you could use the USB3 cable to
handle part of the distance, and the HDMI cable to handle the
rest. The longest "safe" USB3 cable is six feet, with some
ten foot ones also being available. You could use a six foot USB3
cable and a nineteen foot HDMI cable, to span 25 feet.

Paul

As always, your time and advice is appreciated. You are a GREAT resource
to this group.
 
T

t


Thanks Paul,

The optiplex 3010 does not have any USB 3.0 I checked the manual/Device
manager and could not find it. So, my option is to use
something like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UKG4KU/
Sabrent USB 2.0 to HDMI Adpter for Multiple Monitors
 
P

Paul

t said:
Thanks Paul,

The optiplex 3010 does not have any USB 3.0 I checked the manual/Device
manager and could not find it. So, my option is to use
something like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UKG4KU/
Sabrent USB 2.0 to HDMI Adpter for Multiple Monitors

If the PCI Express x1 slot is empty right now, stick one of these in it.
I bought one of these, but haven't had a reason to install it yet.
(I still haven't purchased my SATA dock yet. It will be USB3.)

"SIIG DP 2-Port USB 3.0 PCIe Model JU-P20612-S1"
http://www.siig.com/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html

While their list price is $50, the tradition for
USB3 cards like that is around $25 or so. I wouldn't have
bought that as an impulse buy at my local computer store,
if it was $50. I bought that without any reviews, just
by seeing 720202 on the PCB. The card comes with a full
height faceplate, but I assume inside the bubble wrap, is
the shorter low profile faceplate. There are two screws
you undo, to change out the faceplate and install the
shorter one. Then it'll fit the SFF box. Check that the
card seats fully, before plugging in the SFF again to the
wall current. The gold pins should be just about invisible,
if the card is seated. A mis-adjusted faceplate, can prevent
the card from seating.

Chipset: Renesas uPD720202

That's a NEC USB chip, where NEC electronics changed
names to Renesas.

Connectors:

2, 9-pin, Type A, USB 3.0, Female, External
1, 15-pin, Serial ATA, Power

The Power connector, is for when you are drawing significant
current. USB3 is rated at 900mA per port for bus power. The
DisplayLink adapter is going to chow down on that bus power.
You can run a connection from the ATX power supply to that
connector. On a Dell, there probably aren't a lot of spare
connectors on the cable. You may need to review the cabling,
and see if an extender or adapter is needed to provide
the SATA 15 pin power.

SATA 15 pin power is only rated at 3 amps per power rail,
so it's just enough for the job. I personally prefer
Molex for powering, as they can carry a lot more current.
But for this two port USB3 card, that's probably good enough.

*******

USB3 performance depends on PCI Express x1 slot type. Rev2
slots go faster than Rev1 slots. But either should be
a good choice for the DisplayLink. The slower data rate
you deliver to the DisplayLink, the more it uses the CPU to do
adaptive compression. So the penalty of using USB2 on a
USB3 DisplayLink adapter, or using a USB2 DisplayLink
adapter, is the usage of the CPU to compress the content.
If the pipe is good and fast, then they don't need to
do compression. I don't know exactly how they work all that
out, and how they determine when more or less compression is
required.

USB3 physical rate might be 500MB/sec, but the protocols
that run on them, max out at around 300MB/sec or so. If you
have a slow PCI Express slot, that might drop to 200MB/sec
or 180MB/sec. But that's still six times faster than USB2
at 30MB/sec as a ballpark rate.

So now all that remains, is to hunt down a DL-3000 based
DisplayLink box. And a good HDMI cable. Since the TV probably
comes with an HDMI cable, perhaps you can test it as is.
THen, if happy with the result, go out and spend an arm and
a leg, on a good cable.

I see the DisplayLink site, is still listing "certified" designs.
So you can use this list, to see how many of these things
are around, and what chip they use.

http://www.displaylink.com/shop/adapters

They come in different versions. One has HDMI and DVI.
Another has DisplayPort. And so on. All running at USB3
rates.

Paul
 
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T

t

If the PCI Express x1 slot is empty right now, stick one of these in it.
I bought one of these, but haven't had a reason to install it yet.
(I still haven't purchased my SATA dock yet. It will be USB3.)

"SIIG DP 2-Port USB 3.0 PCIe Model JU-P20612-S1"
http://www.siig.com/dp-2-port-usb-3-0-pcie.html

While their list price is $50, the tradition for
USB3 cards like that is around $25 or so. I wouldn't have
bought that as an impulse buy at my local computer store,
if it was $50. I bought that without any reviews, just
by seeing 720202 on the PCB. The card comes with a full
height faceplate, but I assume inside the bubble wrap, is
the shorter low profile faceplate. There are two screws
you undo, to change out the faceplate and install the
shorter one. Then it'll fit the SFF box. Check that the
card seats fully, before plugging in the SFF again to the
wall current. The gold pins should be just about invisible,
if the card is seated. A mis-adjusted faceplate, can prevent
the card from seating.

Chipset: Renesas uPD720202

That's a NEC USB chip, where NEC electronics changed
names to Renesas.

Connectors:

2, 9-pin, Type A, USB 3.0, Female, External
1, 15-pin, Serial ATA, Power

The Power connector, is for when you are drawing significant
current. USB3 is rated at 900mA per port for bus power. The
DisplayLink adapter is going to chow down on that bus power.
You can run a connection from the ATX power supply to that
connector. On a Dell, there probably aren't a lot of spare
connectors on the cable. You may need to review the cabling,
and see if an extender or adapter is needed to provide
the SATA 15 pin power.

SATA 15 pin power is only rated at 3 amps per power rail,
so it's just enough for the job. I personally prefer
Molex for powering, as they can carry a lot more current.
But for this two port USB3 card, that's probably good enough.

Thanks Paul,

But, instead of using this USB chip, then USB 3.0 to HDMI adapter,
wouldn't getting a graphic card which can drive the TV screen from the
HDMI port, be a better option?

I understand the graphic card may not fit in the small form factor
of optiplex 3010 so I have to browse carefully at my local Best Buy store.




*******

USB3 performance depends on PCI Express x1 slot type. Rev2
slots go faster than Rev1 slots. But either should be
a good choice for the DisplayLink. The slower data rate
you deliver to the DisplayLink, the more it uses the CPU to do
adaptive compression. So the penalty of using USB2 on a
USB3 DisplayLink adapter, or using a USB2 DisplayLink
adapter, is the usage of the CPU to compress the content.
If the pipe is good and fast, then they don't need to
do compression. I don't know exactly how they work all that
out, and how they determine when more or less compression is
required.

Dell staff advised me to get the
http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-30547-Adapter-External/dp/B008MJHT7I

Can this actually allow the TV screen to be used as third monitor? It is
USB 2.0 so can it send so much data to the TV screen. The user is a
typical office user who is already running two monitors on the optiplex
3010 and would want to show his MS-Powerpoint and MS-word documents on
the TV screen. Occasionally, he may want to watch some training videos
and broadcast that to people in his office.

USB3 physical rate might be 500MB/sec, but the protocols
that run on them, max out at around 300MB/sec or so. If you
have a slow PCI Express slot, that might drop to 200MB/sec
or 180MB/sec. But that's still six times faster than USB2
at 30MB/sec as a ballpark rate.

So now all that remains, is to hunt down a DL-3000 based
DisplayLink box. And a good HDMI cable. Since the TV probably
comes with an HDMI cable, perhaps you can test it as is.
THen, if happy with the result, go out and spend an arm and
a leg, on a good cable.

I see the DisplayLink site, is still listing "certified" designs.
So you can use this list, to see how many of these things
are around, and what chip they use.

http://www.displaylink.com/shop/adapters

Does brand name matter in buying these?
They come in different versions. One has HDMI and DVI.
Another has DisplayPort. And so on. All running at USB3
rates.

Paul

Thanks a lot. You are a great help indeed.
 
P

Paul

t said:
Thanks Paul,

But, instead of using this USB chip, then USB 3.0 to HDMI adapter,
wouldn't getting a graphic card which can drive the TV screen from the
HDMI port, be a better option?

I neglected to check for one, because I thought they were on
the way out (too expensive, too few sources).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7709 600007854&IsNodeId=1&name=PCI Express x1

Here's one with actual good reviews. An HD5450, which will do nicely.
That's one of the lowest power cards in the 5000 series, suited
to building HTPC boxes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161354

You remove the high profile faceplate. There is a low profile
faceplate in the box. You remove the VGA connector, by unplugging
the ribbon cable at the video card end. Then, just don't connect
anything to that connector. The remaining two connectors on the
low profile faceplate, are your interface. That should work about
as well as the USB3 to video adapter would work.

That is a fanless card, and a little on the long side. Check
the clearance on the length of the card. And see whether the
x1 slot is too close to the chassis, for proper cooling.
I've seen comments recently from some users, where the
last slot in their computer was virtually unusable, because
of insufficient clearance to the chassis wall. The cooling fan
on the SFF, will draw air slowly through the whole chassis.
I understand the graphic card may not fit in the small form factor
of optiplex 3010 so I have to browse carefully at my local Best Buy store.

The company that makes these tiny computers, might be a better
source of video cards. In that, they have made custom cards
(not typically seen at retail). I have seen low profile cards, where
the length of the card only extends to the end of the motherboard
connector. Not a lot of square inches of space for a video design.
That would mean shopping on the Dell site.

Dell staff advised me to get the
http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-30547-Adapter-External/dp/B008MJHT7I

Can this actually allow the TV screen to be used as third monitor? It is
USB 2.0 so can it send so much data to the TV screen. The user is a
typical office user who is already running two monitors on the optiplex
3010 and would want to show his MS-Powerpoint and MS-word documents on
the TV screen. Occasionally, he may want to watch some training videos
and broadcast that to people in his office.

PowerPoint and Word are fine with those. It's video or any
heavy animation, you can't be sure of. The USB3 one, you
might just be able to watch a movie on it. Playing a DVD
over the USB2 one, isn't going to happen. Frames will
get dropped. There are limits to what compression can do.
Technically, a USB2 cable could pass DVD content off
the CD, and there is sufficient bandwidth for that (i.e.
a multimedia adapter that decodes movies by itself). But
once the DVD is decompressed (about 100:1) ratio,
it's pretty hard for the compression software used
with those USB2 video adapters, to re-compress the
data 100:1. That takes too much processor. Real Time
compressors might manage 3:1 or so.

Does brand name matter in buying these?

Shouldn't matter too much. But check the reviews
on Newegg or Amazon, for more info. And on Amazon,
only some of the reviews are "real" and not just
regurgitation of PR material. You can tell when
someone has really used a product - their review
is shorter, and they aren't copying the specs over
and over again :) And they tend to concentrate
on the flaws of the product.

Paul
 
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T

t

Thanks Paul,

I neglected to check for one, because I thought they were on
the way out (too expensive, too few sources).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7709 600007854&IsNodeId=1&name=PCI Express x1


Here's one with actual good reviews. An HD5450, which will do nicely.
That's one of the lowest power cards in the 5000 series, suited
to building HTPC boxes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161354

You remove the high profile faceplate. There is a low profile
faceplate in the box. You remove the VGA connector, by unplugging
the ribbon cable at the video card end. Then, just don't connect
anything to that connector. The remaining two connectors on the
low profile faceplate, are your interface. That should work about
as well as the USB3 to video adapter would work.

Thanks, I will have to search for some video on Youtube on how to
install this card to ensure I don't bungle up.
The company that makes these tiny computers, might be a better
source of video cards. In that, they have made custom cards
(not typically seen at retail). I have seen low profile cards, where
the length of the card only extends to the end of the motherboard
connector. Not a lot of square inches of space for a video design.
That would mean shopping on the Dell site.

Yes, but Dell staff told me that they don't have internal graphic cards
so advised to get the
http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-30547-Adapter-External/dp/B008MJHT7I

This user wants to connect to the TV screen(lg-47LN5400-led-tv) without
wires. Would
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-All-Share-Wireless-Display-Adapter/dp/B0089VO7MY
and
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F7D4516-ScreenCast-Wireless-Adapter/dp/B005NYPC1U
be something to consider. I understand both have lot of critical reviews
on Amazon


As always, I appreciate your time and advice.
 

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