Use non-Epson cartridges and die!

[Andrew Mayo]

Recently my brand-new Epson C86 failed to print yellow. Although I had
used Epson cartridges (in fact the first set, supplied with the
printer), it just failed after 6 weeks.

Now I have to say Epson were very good; they have set up a bunch of
accredited repair centres and if the printer can't be fixed in 30
minutes they'll give you a new one.

But when I dropped the printer in the first question was 'Have you
been using genuine Epson cartridges?'. Well, yes, I had. Hmmmm. Good
thing too, I supposed. If not, maybe my warranty was toast!. Geez,
better be careful about that!.

When I picked up the replacement I asked a bit more about using
Epson-compatible cartridges. Just out of curiosity. The response was
'You'll ruin your printhead. We get three or more printers in every
week where the printheads have been ruined by non-Epson cartridges'

'Really', I said innocently. 'Does that mean that the printer wouldn't
be covered under warranty?'.

The guy looked uncomfortable 'No, they'll replace the printer under
warranty'. The subject was clearly closed at that stage, so I didn't
pursue the issue.

Now, there are some interesting (conflicting) conclusions to be drawn
from this

1. ALL Non-Epson cartridges contain vile inferior ink which destroys
precision Epson printheads. Ok, if so, how come Epson honour their
warranty commitments?.

2. Epson are being a bit economical with the truth because they want
you to buy their more expensive cartridges. Hence they scare you into
sticking with their cartridges and train their repair agents to take a
tough line questioning people, then act all nice about it 'well, in
this case we'll make an exception, but don't do it again!'

3. SOME Non-Epson cartridges are junk. Well, then why are Epson not
warning retail outlets about these products. Why aren't the good
non-Epson cartridges able to say 'guaranteed compatible' or something
to ensure you can be confident they won't wreck your printer. I mean,
an independent lab could certify that your inks are compatible and
free of particulate contamination, for instance, right?.

The cartridges I had considered using are from OfficeWorld, who are a
very large and reputable chain. I plan to ask them about these
cartridges and see what their official response is.

Meanwhile, can anyone else here shed light on this rather peculiar
situation. Printer company sells printers, warns against third-party
cartridges but, strangely, fixes broken printers even when they are
damaged (allegedly) by said third-party cartridges.

I find this odd. If my Ford got filled with, say, contaminated crap
oil and then the engine failed under warranty, would Ford say 'oh,
well, you need to use genuine Ford oil, and this oil is junk.. but,
er, we'll repair it under warranty, and, er... if you do it again
we'll STILL repair it under warranty.'

Somehow I don't think so.

If I go into Halfords and I buy 5 litres of 30/40 oil, I'm quite
confident that Ford aren't gonna tell me that my warranty is toast
because I bought third party oil. (actually, legally I think they
can't do that, which may explain Epson's odd behaviour).

Now I know printer ink is (supposedly) much more high-tech.
Supposedly. I don't know how true that is. I'm guessing that reputable
third-party ink vendors take great care over their formulations and
ensure that they test them thoroughly and perform spectroscopic
analysis etc. After all, being sued by a bunch of furious users with
dead printers could be kinda expensive, right?.

At present I'm becoming quite convinced that the printer market badly
needs some kind of government regulation, in the same way that the car
parts market was regulated. This was to stop car manufacturers
stamping down on third-party parts vendors, but we're seeing some very
shady practices in the printer market.

I understand that companies are giving the damn printers away and
planning on making a killing from all the consumables they'll be
selling you, but to be honest, I don't think this is a sustainable
proposition. Apart from deliberately pricing replacement parts so
printers will be junked, rather than repaired (Canon), other vendors
have tried suing third-party suppliers under the DMCA (Lexmark).

 

[Don Phillipson]

If I go into Halfords and I buy 5 litres of 30/40 oil, I'm quite
confident that Ford aren't gonna tell me that my warranty is toast
because I bought third party oil. (actually, legally I think they
can't do that, which may explain Epson's odd behaviour).

Now I know printer ink is (supposedly) much more high-tech.

But there are national and international specifications
for motor oil (and the container identifies whether the
contents meet those specifications) but not for printer cartridges
-- where doctrine and practice are left to manufacturers.

 

[Bob]

Recently my brand-new Epson C86 failed to print yellow. Although I had
used Epson cartridges (in fact the first set, supplied with the
printer), it just failed after 6 weeks.

Now I have to say Epson were very good; they have set up a bunch of
accredited repair centres and if the printer can't be fixed in 30
minutes they'll give you a new one.

But when I dropped the printer in the first question was 'Have you
been using genuine Epson cartridges?'. Well, yes, I had. Hmmmm. Good
thing too, I supposed. If not, maybe my warranty was toast!. Geez,
better be careful about that!.

When I picked up the replacement I asked a bit more about using
Epson-compatible cartridges. Just out of curiosity. The response was
'You'll ruin your printhead. We get three or more printers in every
week where the printheads have been ruined by non-Epson cartridges'

'Really', I said innocently. 'Does that mean that the printer wouldn't
be covered under warranty?'.

The guy looked uncomfortable 'No, they'll replace the printer under
warranty'. The subject was clearly closed at that stage, so I didn't
pursue the issue.

Now, there are some interesting (conflicting) conclusions to be drawn
from this

1. ALL Non-Epson cartridges contain vile inferior ink which destroys
precision Epson printheads. Ok, if so, how come Epson honour their
warranty commitments?.

2. Epson are being a bit economical with the truth because they want
you to buy their more expensive cartridges. Hence they scare you into
sticking with their cartridges and train their repair agents to take a
tough line questioning people, then act all nice about it 'well, in
this case we'll make an exception, but don't do it again!'

3. SOME Non-Epson cartridges are junk. Well, then why are Epson not
warning retail outlets about these products. Why aren't the good
non-Epson cartridges able to say 'guaranteed compatible' or something
to ensure you can be confident they won't wreck your printer. I mean,
an independent lab could certify that your inks are compatible and
free of particulate contamination, for instance, right?.

The cartridges I had considered using are from OfficeWorld, who are a
very large and reputable chain. I plan to ask them about these
cartridges and see what their official response is.

Meanwhile, can anyone else here shed light on this rather peculiar
situation. Printer company sells printers, warns against third-party
cartridges but, strangely, fixes broken printers even when they are
damaged (allegedly) by said third-party cartridges.

I find this odd. If my Ford got filled with, say, contaminated crap
oil and then the engine failed under warranty, would Ford say 'oh,
well, you need to use genuine Ford oil, and this oil is junk.. but,
er, we'll repair it under warranty, and, er... if you do it again
we'll STILL repair it under warranty.'

Somehow I don't think so.

If I go into Halfords and I buy 5 litres of 30/40 oil, I'm quite
confident that Ford aren't gonna tell me that my warranty is toast
because I bought third party oil. (actually, legally I think they
can't do that, which may explain Epson's odd behaviour).

Now I know printer ink is (supposedly) much more high-tech.
Supposedly. I don't know how true that is. I'm guessing that reputable
third-party ink vendors take great care over their formulations and
ensure that they test them thoroughly and perform spectroscopic
analysis etc. After all, being sued by a bunch of furious users with
dead printers could be kinda expensive, right?.

At present I'm becoming quite convinced that the printer market badly
needs some kind of government regulation, in the same way that the car
parts market was regulated. This was to stop car manufacturers
stamping down on third-party parts vendors, but we're seeing some very
shady practices in the printer market.

I understand that companies are giving the damn printers away and
planning on making a killing from all the consumables they'll be
selling you, but to be honest, I don't think this is a sustainable
proposition. Apart from deliberately pricing replacement parts so
printers will be junked, rather than repaired (Canon), other vendors
have tried suing third-party suppliers under the DMCA (Lexmark).

Actually, I have had exactly the opposite experience with both my C80s.
With both printers, I had to replace the original Epson cartridges with
generics. The Epsons continually clogged up. If I did not print for a
week, I had to do a cleaning cycle. Two years later, I have not had a clog
with either printer using generic inks, and I have gone a month without
printing and no clogs. My wife gave me a third C80 because it continually
clogged with Epson ink cartridges. It was out of warranty and could not be
salvaged. I tossed it.

 

[Tony]

The guy looked uncomfortable 'No, they'll replace the printer under
warranty'. The subject was clearly closed at that stage, so I didn't

pursue the issue.

http://www.jettec.co.uk/warranty.asp

This has been handled many times. Firstly ignore speculation from over eager
posters who are keen to chat without facts Dependant in which country
you live, hopefully like the UK or USA, Epson are not allowed to deal in FUD
(fear, uncertainty and doubt) and it has been proven several times that the
law in the EU for instance is definately against them. They are not allowed
to determine which ink you use.
Secondly deal with a responsible third party manufacturer. JetTec for
instance make every single widget and ink carefully formulated to work - and
guaranteed.
Tony

 

[Hecate]

pursue the issue.

http://www.jettec.co.uk/warranty.asp

This has been handled many times. Firstly ignore speculation from over eager
posters who are keen to chat without facts Dependant in which country
you live, hopefully like the UK or USA, Epson are not allowed to deal in FUD
(fear, uncertainty and doubt) and it has been proven several times that the
law in the EU for instance is definately against them. They are not allowed
to determine which ink you use.
Secondly deal with a responsible third party manufacturer. JetTec for
instance make every single widget and ink carefully formulated to work - and
guaranteed.
Tony

And if you're lucky enough to get them you can the same guarantees and
better inks from Permajet.

 

[Anti-imperialist]

Recently my brand-new Epson C86 failed to print yellow. Although I had
used Epson cartridges (in fact the first set, supplied with the
printer), it just failed after 6 weeks.

<snip>

I just destroyed 2 different Epson printers (clogged the heads). I was
using 3rd party inks both times (Printpal). Seemed like I used Canon
with Printpal and no problems. I suspect that the PrintPal inks
destroyed the Epsons but I am not sure. I just said screw it and bought
a Laser printer.
--

 

[William Bell]

<snip>

I just destroyed 2 different Epson printers (clogged the heads). I was
using 3rd party inks both times (Printpal). Seemed like I used Canon
with Printpal and no problems. I suspect that the PrintPal inks
destroyed the Epsons but I am not sure. I just said screw it and bought
a Laser printer.

Its users that cause Epsons to clog, learn to use your printer correctly then
it will not clog, Epson user now on my 3rd printer..

Also use better grade OEM Ink Tanks, not just the cheapest, or the ones made
in China

 

[Anti-imperialist]

Its users that cause Epsons to clog, learn to use your printer correctly then
it will not clog,

Excuse me, how am I not using my printer correctly? Clue me in. Also
tell me how "users clog their Epsons, not ink?"

Epson user now on my 3rd printer..

Also use better grade OEM Ink Tanks, not just the cheapest, or the ones made
in China

Ok.......I just bought a laser printer, hopefully this is all over with
for now.
--
http://www.pflp.net Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
http://www.farcep.org Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
http://www.revolutionleft.org
Heroes: George Habash, Nayef Hawatmeh, Naji Alloush, Kamal Nasser, Wadi
Haddad, Michel Aflaq, Camilo Torres.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

If there were an international independent (or sponsored by all inkjet
companies) group with rated ink as to the safety or minimum
specifications, as is the case with oil, Epson could state that the ink
must meet a standard and claim the ink was not up to the quality
required if it was not, and then refuse the warranty.

However, there is no such organization, and it would appear no one in
the industry wants such a group, because then there would be a standard
and you could know you were safe buying certain 3rd party inks.

The manufacturers, as you pointed out, make their money on consumables,
so they want to hold that market, even if it is by fear factor.

In most countries, there are acts which do not allow for "tie in" of
hard goods with consumables. In the US it is the Sherman Anti-Trust act,
which makes it illegal to require that consumable be purchased from a
specific source in order to either purchase a hard good, or to maintain
a warranty.

Sadly, some Epson owners do abuse this requirement by using badly
manufactured ink and messing up their printer. However, Epson is under
certain responsibilities during the warranty period unless they could
prove categorically that using a certain brand of ink did damage the
printer. This is difficult to prove and costly, and in the big picture
it is better to repair the printer under warranty, especially since
Epson would face many complaints about their permanent heads otherwise.

Some ink or bad refilling practices definitely could lead to head clogs,
but Epson likely knows what the costs of of trying to pursue such a
situation.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

There are some things you can do to lessen the risk of Epson head clogs.

1) Keep the printer in a low dust situation. Clean any paper dust out
regularly

2) If you live in a very dry region, consider placing a few drops of
water in the cleaning station pad before shutting down.

3) Clean under the head using the technique explained in my Cleaning guide

4) Occasionally use cleaning cartridges to purge the nozzles and other
head parts

5) Do not allow the printer to sit without a cartridge installed for
more than a few minutes.

6) Try to print something a few times a week, if possible

7) Do not shut the printer down via a power bar, use the on off switch
on the printer

8) Make sure the head unit sets in place to the far right of the
printer, sealed by the cleaning station .

9) Keep the head wiper and the cleaning station clean so the heads will
get purged properly during start up and other cleaning processes.

Art

 

[blacker47]

Recently my brand-new Epson C86 failed to print yellow. Although I had
used Epson cartridges (in fact the first set, supplied with the
printer), it just failed after 6 weeks.

When I picked up the replacement I asked a bit more about using
Epson-compatible cartridges. Just out of curiosity. The response was
'You'll ruin your printhead. We get three or more printers in every
week where the printheads have been ruined by non-Epson cartridges'

I printed about 10 pages with my new Epson Stylus C82, before they
stops to print magenta. Are this the destroid printheads by the Epson
catridges? Think the compatible wold be more worse? I don't think it
realy.

After "repair" I get a new package and printed with epson-ink for 2
years without any problems, and now get again epson ink.

What I going to say is:
1. Epson seems to have problems on new printers with the printhead.
2. Compatible ink is not the one, what can destroy the pringhead, it
could happen with epson-ink.
3. Nobody can say, when you printer will fail ^^

 

[Bob]

There are some things you can do to lessen the risk of Epson head clogs.

1) Keep the printer in a low dust situation. Clean any paper dust out
regularly

2) If you live in a very dry region, consider placing a few drops of
water in the cleaning station pad before shutting down.

3) Clean under the head using the technique explained in my Cleaning guide

4) Occasionally use cleaning cartridges to purge the nozzles and other
head parts

5) Do not allow the printer to sit without a cartridge installed for
more than a few minutes.

6) Try to print something a few times a week, if possible

7) Do not shut the printer down via a power bar, use the on off switch
on the printer

8) Make sure the head unit sets in place to the far right of the
printer, sealed by the cleaning station .

9) Keep the head wiper and the cleaning station clean so the heads will
get purged properly during start up and other cleaning processes.

Art

Your advice is excellent. The point is, however, that such measures should
not be required to keep a printer working. My wife has been using two
Canon i550s for years. Aside from changing generic cartridges, she does
nothing. They just keep printing.

 

[Bill]

There are some things you can do to lessen the risk of Epson head clogs.

While I think several of your suggestions are good, for most users the
others are not only more difficult, they're beyond what is reasonably
expected of a consumer.

Anything that requires disassembly or some mechanical knowledge is
beyond expectations. A printer is supposed to print when you turn it on,
plain and simple. If it needs new ink, you stick in new cartridges.
Pretty much anything else is extraordinary requirements.

 

[notbob]

4) Occasionally use cleaning cartridges to purge the nozzles and other
head parts

Epson printers now allow cartridge removal? The only Epy I owned (800
color) would permanently kill any cartridge removed, not matter how new.

nb

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Your advice is excellent. The point is, however, that such measures should
not be required to keep a printer working. My wife has been using two
Canon i550s for years. Aside from changing generic cartridges, she does
nothing. They just keep printing.

I am not trying to defend Epson, or any other company. Each have their
good and bad points. Recent Canon printers, with their newer designs,
have improved the reliability and quality of their printers.

I believe Canon still does not produces pigmented inks for their
printers. The pigmented inks Epson uses may be one of the causes of
less reliability and more clogs.

Some people have reported early head failures with Canon printers.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

As I stated many times before, Epson printers require some special
treatment. In part it is due to the pigmented inks in certain models.
In part it is due to the permanent heads. Before recently (last two
years perhaps) no other printer on the market offered the quality of
output Epson did, so that alone made the extra considerations worthwhile
to those demanding that type of quality.

Both HP and Canon have made great strides in quality output recently.
If it were not for Epson, I doubt either would be anywhere near where
they are today.

The piezo head technology is used by almost all professional inkjet
printer companies. It allows for many varied inks and a very long
lasting head with little if any loss of quality, should it be
maintained. That used to be a big plus in terms of cost per cartridge,
but the market forced Epson to follow a similar business model to other
companies.

The piezo head is being used to print on pills and to make OLED screens.
It doesn't get used up and requires no heating process.

Epson printers still produce beautiful results, albeit, usually slower
than the top speed models.

I do not believe any of the suggestions I made required dismantling of
the printer.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

In spite of Epson's warnings, my experience (and I own many Epson
printers of different vintages) is this is not the case. At worse, one
simply has to add a few drops of water to the ink outlet before
reinserting the cartridge.

Further, yes, since the chipped Intelledge cartridge was designed with a
spring loaded valve on each ink outlet, the cartridges and printers are
designed to allow for cartridge removal and reinstallation. In fact, it
was under this ploy that Epson introduced these newly featured
cartridges with the chip. Of course, the real reason for them was to
make the cartridges impossible to use again with a reprogrammer for the
chip.


Art

 

[notbob]

Further, yes, since the chipped Intelledge cartridge was designed with a
spring loaded valve on each ink outlet, the cartridges and printers are
designed to allow for cartridge removal and reinstallation. In fact, it
was under this ploy that Epson introduced these newly featured
cartridges with the chip. Of course, the real reason for them was to
make the cartridges impossible to use again with a reprogrammer for the
chip.

The bottom line is still that Epson will employ every dirty trick in the
book ...pig ink, nonreusable carts, chip controlled carts, etc.... to force
owners into buying ever more insanely overpriced ink cartridges. Fine. If
you want to keep paying, be my guest.

nb

 

[Arthur Entlich]

That last line was supposed to read:

make the cartridges impossible to use again withOUT a reprogrammer for
the chip.

Yes, Epson and most other manufacturers of ink cartridges make their
money mainly on consumables and go out of their way to make it difficult
to use other brands of ink or to refill the old cartridges.

Art

 

[notbob]

Yes, Epson and most other manufacturers of ink cartridges make their
money mainly on consumables and go out of their way to make it difficult
to use other brands of ink or to refill the old cartridges.

I don't mind paying for the consumables, but Epson's blatant greed is just
too much to endure. $35 for plain black cartridge in a $90 printer! Mamma
notbob didn't raise no fools.

nb ...gone to laser