Upgrading to 64bits - new info from Darrel

[Colin Barnhorst]

Darrel Gorter (MSFT) reported the results of some experiments he did for us
using an Ultimate edition product key. It looks like good news for those
hoping to be able to migrate directly from W2k and XP 32bits to Vista 64bits
at upgrade prices. It goes without saying that your computer must be 64bit
capable.

His findings:

When you boot the machine with a Vista x86 dvd and enter an upgrade edition
product key you will be instructed to restart Setup from the legacy desktop.
You cannot use an UE pk without running the legacy OS.

When you boot the machine with a Vista x64 dvd and enter an upgrade edition
product key you will NOT be required to restart and run from the legacy
desktop. As long as a qualifying legacy Windows is installed you will be
allowed to proceed. This removes a key concern, which was that x64 Setup
cannot run from an x86 desktop. It turns out that it doesn't have to.
Ealier statements turned out to apply only to the x86 dvd but not the x64
dvd.

Conclusion: If you are running 32bit Windows you can install 64bit Vista
using an upgrade edition product key. All you need to do is boot with the
64bit dvd. Those already running XP Pro x64 should have the choice of
booting with the dvd or running from the desktop.

Darrel believes that the x64 dvd is only included in the Vista Ultimate
upgrade edition box and will have to be requested for the other upgrade
editions.

<Rant>There ought to be a way to only have one retail box, period. Surely
the product key is all that varies and given present technology that can be
purchased at point of sale and generated by the salesperson. You get your
media kit and then tell the clerk what edition you want at the checkout
counter. No problems with open boxes if you make a mistake and need an
exchange since one box does all.</Rant>

Colin Barnhorst - MVP Virtual Machine

 

[Michael D]

I am trying to remember where I read it, but I believe that the retail
upgrade has both 32 and 64-bit DVDs. It was only the express upgrades that
needed to request 64-bit disks.

 

[Dennis Pack]

Colin:
Excellent summary, it eliminates a lot of confusion. Have a great
day.

 

[Chad Harris]

Wow! This is very useful--if only they got the packaging right. Really--you
shouldn't have to go through requesting a DVD after buying the product.

Absolutely this is true Colin:

"No problems with open boxes if you make a mistake and need an
exchange since one box does all. One box ought to do all."

Colin wrote from Darell:

"When you boot the machine with a Vista x64 dvd and enter an upgrade edition
product key you will NOT be required to restart and run from the legacy
desktop. As long as a qualifying legacy Windows is installed you will be
allowed to proceed. This removes a key concern, which was that x64 Setup
cannot run from an x86 desktop. It turns out that it doesn't have to.
Ealier statements turned out to apply only to the x86 dvd but not the x64
dvd.

Conclusion: If you are running 32bit Windows you can install 64bit Vista
using an upgrade edition product key. All you need to do is boot with the
64bit dvd. Those already running XP Pro x64 should have the choice of
booting with the dvd or running from the desktop."

This is very interesting good news. If you run across the precise packaging
(why in the world don't they have this announced and on a website?) --I
wonder if Darrel Gorter or Jill Zoeller could run this down--it would also
be valuable information.

Thanks. I sure second your rant and a lot of us do. If what Darrell
believes about the packaging is true, it sure seems an unweildy, awkward,
goofey way of going about this given what you found out.

I'm going to see if I can get some clarification on the packaging, and if
anyone has it, it would be helpful to put it up.

CH

 

[Chad Harris]

Colin--

I spoke with MSFT Volume Licensing. Right now they are only selling upgrade
editions. They said that every edition will have at least a 32 bit DVD, a
64 bit DVD, and possibly a DRM DVD. I don't know what the DRM DVD would
entail. I imagine then, (they were sure of this but not how it would be
implemented, that someone will make their choice and get a product key
accordingly once they do the setup. Perhaps one product key could be used
for either, but only once.

CH

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The distribution of product keys for volume licensing is a little different
from retail. MSFT Marketing probably has the retail details. Given the way
VL works, wouldn't they all be upgrade only dvd's that are not bootable?

 

[Chad Harris]

I called MSFT VL but asked about what is to come Jan 30 that was not volume
licensing, but stand alone purchases. That's what they told me was going to
happen after getting in touch with some help.

I also emailed Vista personnel but haven't heard yet.

I should have added that the Tablet PC edition will have 4 DVDs they
said--if it has a DRM DVD.

You're correct about the upgrade DVDs that would not be bootable--that would
require qualifying legacy Windows--at least I think that's what you meant
there.

So I think, through some mechanism you will have both DVDs and be able to
choose which bit you want to load. They assured me that there would be a 32
bit and 64 bit DVD for every edition in individual retail packages.

CH

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

OK. I thought they were just giving you VL info, but I see now what you are
reporting. The statement that all editions will have both x86 and x64 dvd's
is more consistent with the other reports posted here. One was from a
report on a phone call to a UK Microsoft local office. With what we now
know about the capabilities of the x64 dvd's, there would be no reason not
to include x64 dvd's in all the upgrade edition retail boxes unless somehow
that was Marketing's way of adding value to Ultimate edition purchases.

Fill me in on the DRM DVD's. What kind of data is on them that takes whole
dvd's? As you can see, I am not a big media user. I don't get beyond
classic movies in Media Center.

 

[Chad Harris]

I wish I could tell you about the content of "DRM DVDs", Colin. I have not
been able to figure this out--that info threw me. They said that it is not
certain they will be included--and I just have no idea what would be on them
and neither did they.

If I can find other sources of info or hear back, I'll put up what I get. At
near the two week mark, I would think they would post info.

CH

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

They must surely know that there are some changes of great interest. I have
been expecting a FAQ at the very least.

 

[Chad Harris]

Colin--

I find this thread on the setup group muddies the waters for me because
Darrel seems to be saying that the product key will determine what actually
sets up ***as well as the need for the X32 or the X64.

So I guess that if as they told me they will be sending a specific CD with
each edition's package, they will also have to issue a product key depending
on what gets purchased.

Maybe it's part of their suspense mistique to wait until January 30 or a few
days later for people to buy the thing and find out since they sure haven't
posted anything on a site --I'm glad they have the wow site and the
Vanishing Point contest going though--nothing like sizzle over substance.
That's the name of the game in my country anyway:

This is the recent thread on upgrading and legacy media on the setup group:

Hello,
That is correct. The media is the same, the behavior is different
depending on whether you use an upgrade key or a full product.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Kerry Brown" <[email protected]*a*m>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
|>Subject: Re: Vista Product Keys?
|>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:49:02 -0800
|>Lines: 27
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=original
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: s01060080c8133852.vn.shawcable.net 24.82.123.204
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup:2196
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>
|>All the media is the same. All versions of Vista (either 32 bit or 64
bit,
|>each has their own media) are on the media. What is installed depends on
the
|>product key you enter. As far as I know the upgrade media is the same as
the
|>full media. The only difference is the key that is supplied.
|>
|>--
|>Kerry Brown
|>Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
|>http://www.vistahelp.ca
|>
|>
|>|>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:30:29 -0800, "Jeff Gaines"
|>>
|>>>>Yikes! So what happens if your HD dies and you need to re-install,
|>>>>surely you don't have to install an older version first!
|>>>
|>>>Oh yes you do :-(
|>>
|>> So back to my original question. Could you use a full copy to do a new
|>> install, but use the key from the appropriate upgrade version?
|>>
|>> --
|>> Nigel M

CH

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Darrel is saying that there is no difference between the dvd's in an upgrade
edition package and a full edition package. The product key you get will be
for either an upgrade or full edition of the Vista version you are
purchasing (Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate). Whether you
install the x86 or x64 version depends on which of the two dvd's you use,
but there will only be one product key.

Colin--

I find this thread on the setup group muddies the waters for me because
Darrel seems to be saying that the product key will determine what
actually sets up ***as well as the need for the X32 or the X64.

So I guess that if as they told me they will be sending a specific CD with
each edition's package, they will also have to issue a product key
depending on what gets purchased.

Maybe it's part of their suspense mistique to wait until January 30 or a
few days later for people to buy the thing and find out since they sure
haven't posted anything on a site --I'm glad they have the wow site and
the Vanishing Point contest going though--nothing like sizzle over
substance. That's the name of the game in my country anyway:

This is the recent thread on upgrading and legacy media on the setup
group:

Hello,
That is correct. The media is the same, the behavior is different
depending on whether you use an upgrade key or a full product.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Kerry Brown" <[email protected]*a*m>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
|>Subject: Re: Vista Product Keys?
|>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:49:02 -0800
|>Lines: 27
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=original
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: s01060080c8133852.vn.shawcable.net 24.82.123.204
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup:2196
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>
|>All the media is the same. All versions of Vista (either 32 bit or 64
bit,
|>each has their own media) are on the media. What is installed depends on
the
|>product key you enter. As far as I know the upgrade media is the same as
the
|>full media. The only difference is the key that is supplied.
|>
|>--
|>Kerry Brown
|>Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
|>http://www.vistahelp.ca
|>
|>
|>|>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:30:29 -0800, "Jeff Gaines"
|>>
|>>>>Yikes! So what happens if your HD dies and you need to re-install,
|>>>>surely you don't have to install an older version first!
|>>>
|>>>Oh yes you do :-(
|>>
|>> So back to my original question. Could you use a full copy to do a new
|>> install, but use the key from the appropriate upgrade version?
|>>
|>> --
|>> Nigel M

CH

They must surely know that there are some changes of great interest. I
have been expecting a FAQ at the very least.

 

[Chad Harris]

Thanks. I guess that only leaves the possibility of a DRM DVD if it is in
the packaging whatever it would be and it may just be an idea in the head of
the Volume Licensing phone tech.

Darrel is saying that there is no difference between the dvd's in an
upgrade edition package and a full edition package. The product key you
get will be for either an upgrade or full edition of the Vista version you
are purchasing (Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate). Whether
you install the x86 or x64 version depends on which of the two dvd's you
use, but there will only be one product key.

Colin--

I find this thread on the setup group muddies the waters for me because
Darrel seems to be saying that the product key will determine what
actually sets up ***as well as the need for the X32 or the X64.

So I guess that if as they told me they will be sending a specific CD
with each edition's package, they will also have to issue a product key
depending on what gets purchased.

Maybe it's part of their suspense mistique to wait until January 30 or a
few days later for people to buy the thing and find out since they sure
haven't posted anything on a site --I'm glad they have the wow site and
the Vanishing Point contest going though--nothing like sizzle over
substance. That's the name of the game in my country anyway:

This is the recent thread on upgrading and legacy media on the setup
group:

Hello,
That is correct. The media is the same, the behavior is different
depending on whether you use an upgrade key or a full product.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
--------------------
|>From: "Kerry Brown" <[email protected]*a*m>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
|>Subject: Re: Vista Product Keys?
|>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:49:02 -0800
|>Lines: 27
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=original
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: s01060080c8133852.vn.shawcable.net 24.82.123.204
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup:2196
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup
|>
|>All the media is the same. All versions of Vista (either 32 bit or 64
bit,
|>each has their own media) are on the media. What is installed depends
on
the
|>product key you enter. As far as I know the upgrade media is the same
as
the
|>full media. The only difference is the key that is supplied.
|>
|>--
|>Kerry Brown
|>Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
|>http://www.vistahelp.ca
|>
|>
|>|>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:30:29 -0800, "Jeff Gaines"
|>>
|>>>>Yikes! So what happens if your HD dies and you need to re-install,
|>>>>surely you don't have to install an older version first!
|>>>
|>>>Oh yes you do :-(
|>>
|>> So back to my original question. Could you use a full copy to do a
new
|>> install, but use the key from the appropriate upgrade version?
|>>
|>> --
|>> Nigel M

CH

They must surely know that there are some changes of great interest. I
have been expecting a FAQ at the very least.

"Chad Harris" <getsomevistainfoout.net> wrote in message
I wish I could tell you about the content of "DRM DVDs", Colin. I have
not been able to figure this out--that info threw me. They said that it
is not certain they will be included--and I just have no idea what would
be on them and neither did they.

If I can find other sources of info or hear back, I'll put up what I
get. At near the two week mark, I would think they would post info.

CH