Upgrade P4B266

[Oliver Costich]

I have a P4B266 ver2 with a Pentium4 2 GHz. I am using Photoshop a lot
and want to upgrade for least cost. I can get a socket 478 motherboard
and a 3.0/3.0 processor for not too much or spend another $150 for a
socket T + processor+ power supply + video card. I already have 1GB of
Crucial PC2700 memory.

Which makes more sense? Which board would you recommend for either
case?

 

[Paul]

I have a P4B266 ver2 with a Pentium4 2 GHz. I am using Photoshop a lot
and want to upgrade for least cost. I can get a socket 478 motherboard
and a 3.0/3.0 processor for not too much or spend another $150 for a
socket T + processor+ power supply + video card. I already have 1GB of
Crucial PC2700 memory.

Which makes more sense? Which board would you recommend for either
case?

When I look at your current system, the P4B266 has single channel RAM.
A newer dual channel board, will give you additional memory bandwidth,
which will help with Photoshop.

The S478 platform is certainly "over the hill", but you could upgrade
to a P4P800 or P4C800 family board. At FSB800, you are allowed to run
RAM at PC3200, PC2700, or PC2100 (DDR400, DDR333, DDR266). That
means you can reuse your RAM, and as long as the RAM is reasonably
matched (both 512MB sticks have 16 chips), the board will run the RAM
in dual channel mode.

Of the P4P800/P4C800 family, a Northbridge chip type of 875P,
865PE, or 865G are recommended. Those chips will not compromise
your memory or the video performance of your old AGP card. A 848P
based board is single channel, and a 865GV board has no AGP slot
for a video card.

The cheapest motherboard I would recommend are P4P800 SE ($97).
The P4C800-E Deluxe is $183 by comparison, and the main feature
it would offer you, is the ability to use unbuffered ECC memory
if you want. If this was a single home computer, connected to the
Internet via ADSL or cable modem, the network interface differences
wouldn't matter much. If you have a bunch of gigabit networking
equipment, then you might consider the P4C800-E as a solution.

If you go with the P5P800 ($98), it is like a P4P800 family board
(uses 865PE Northbridge), but the one difference it has, is the
LGA775 processor socket. That would allow you to use a more expensive
LGA775 3.8GHz processor on your new board.

Since the current generation of LGA775 (socket T) boards are
not "dual core ready", I don't see the current LGA775 boards as
being a good long term investment. At least for you, as a Photoshop
user. A LGA775 with a single core 3.8GHz processor, will blow the
doors off a dual core 3.2Ghz processor for ordinary usage, but
Photoshop has been able to use extra processors/threads for a number
of years.

For your new board, I personally would buy this S478 Northwood
3GHz ($197). It might offer slightly cooler idle operation.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-163&depa=0

The next most desirable processor, would be a LGA775 540J Prescott
($222). You could use that on the P5P800. The idle current is
31 amps, which is pretty close to the Northwood Vcore current demand.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-201&depa=0

On the 540J, my explanation of why, is here:
http://groups.google.ca/[email protected]

In terms of obsolescence, the P5P800 (with single core LGA775
processors) and the P4P800/P4C800 (with single core S478 processors),
are roughly in the same situation. There will still be new processor
offerings in the LGA775 form factor, which gives the LGA775 an
advantage, but I wouldn't really expect to seem much more in the
way of core clock improvements (at prices you could afford at least).

Someone might also suggest an Athlon64 platform, but as I haven't
seen any Photoshop benchmarks, I don't know how a S939 processor
compares to a P4.

OK, this one compares an A64 3200+ to a P4 3.2GHz. At this level,
the P4 looks like a winner. But the different processors are good
at different Photoshop filters, so you really need to see the
detailed numbers, to compare the two platforms.

http://www.geocities.com/sw_perf/PSBench.html

Paul

 

[Oliver Costich]

When I look at your current system, the P4B266 has single channel RAM.
A newer dual channel board, will give you additional memory bandwidth,
which will help with Photoshop.

The S478 platform is certainly "over the hill", but you could upgrade
to a P4P800 or P4C800 family board. At FSB800, you are allowed to run
RAM at PC3200, PC2700, or PC2100 (DDR400, DDR333, DDR266). That
means you can reuse your RAM, and as long as the RAM is reasonably
matched (both 512MB sticks have 16 chips), the board will run the RAM
in dual channel mode.

Of the P4P800/P4C800 family, a Northbridge chip type of 875P,
865PE, or 865G are recommended. Those chips will not compromise
your memory or the video performance of your old AGP card. A 848P
based board is single channel, and a 865GV board has no AGP slot
for a video card.

The cheapest motherboard I would recommend are P4P800 SE ($97).
The P4C800-E Deluxe is $183 by comparison, and the main feature
it would offer you, is the ability to use unbuffered ECC memory
if you want. If this was a single home computer, connected to the
Internet via ADSL or cable modem, the network interface differences
wouldn't matter much. If you have a bunch of gigabit networking
equipment, then you might consider the P4C800-E as a solution.

If you go with the P5P800 ($98), it is like a P4P800 family board
(uses 865PE Northbridge), but the one difference it has, is the
LGA775 processor socket. That would allow you to use a more expensive
LGA775 3.8GHz processor on your new board.

Since the current generation of LGA775 (socket T) boards are
not "dual core ready", I don't see the current LGA775 boards as
being a good long term investment. At least for you, as a Photoshop
user. A LGA775 with a single core 3.8GHz processor, will blow the
doors off a dual core 3.2Ghz processor for ordinary usage, but
Photoshop has been able to use extra processors/threads for a number
of years.

For your new board, I personally would buy this S478 Northwood
3GHz ($197). It might offer slightly cooler idle operation.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-163&depa=0

Why not the S478 3.0E or 3.2E with i1MB cache?

The next most desirable processor, would be a LGA775 540J Prescott
($222). You could use that on the P5P800. The idle current is
31 amps, which is pretty close to the Northwood Vcore current demand.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-201&depa=0

On the 540J, my explanation of why, is here:
http://groups.google.ca/[email protected]

In terms of obsolescence, the P5P800 (with single core LGA775
processors) and the P4P800/P4C800 (with single core S478 processors),
are roughly in the same situation. There will still be new processor
offerings in the LGA775 form factor, which gives the LGA775 an
advantage, but I wouldn't really expect to seem much more in the
way of core clock improvements (at prices you could afford at least).

Someone might also suggest an Athlon64 platform, but as I haven't
seen any Photoshop benchmarks, I don't know how a S939 processor
compares to a P4.

OK, this one compares an A64 3200+ to a P4 3.2GHz. At this level,
the P4 looks like a winner. But the different processors are good
at different Photoshop filters, so you really need to see the
detailed numbers, to compare the two platforms.

http://www.geocities.com/sw_perf/PSBench.html

Paul

Thanks. You've been very helpful.

 

[Paul]

Why not the S478 3.0E or 3.2E with i1MB cache?

I'm trying to give you the best thermal performance I
know of. Page 23 lists the current drawn by the processor:

The LGA775 5xx family datasheet is here:
http://www.intel.com/design/pentium4/datashts/302351.htm

On page 23, the enhanced_auto_halt current is 31 amps for
the 3.2GHz processor, and 40 amps for the 3.0GHz processor.
That current, times whatever is the Vcore voltage, gives the
idle power for your system. The system spends more time at
idle than computing, and P4 systems tend to be space
heaters (even my 2.8GHz Northwood is annoying that way,
partially because of the ATI 9800Pro video card).

The Prescott 3.0E on socket 478 datasheet is here:

http://www.intel.com/design/pentium4/datashts/300561.htm

On page 22, the operating current of a PRB=0 processor, is
the same as the 5XX series above. Except that, the enhanced
auto halt feature is missing. The Prescott S478 will be
drawing 40 amps at idle.

You also have to watch the PRB bit, when buying processors.
On the S478, PRB=1 means the processor is in a different
"class" than a PRB=0 processor. The PRB=1 draws more
electrical power, and the PRB bit in the CPU, is an indicator
to the BIOS that more power will be drawn by the processor.
The BIOS can then decide whether it is safe to run the
processor or not, based on that flag bit. You can see in the
table, that the PRB=1 processors can draw up to 91 amps, while
the PRB=0 processors can draw 78 amps. The current is obviously
proportional to core frequency, so as you would expect, the
fastest processors are PRB=1 models. But there are a couple
of cases, where two processors run at the same speed,
yet one product is PRB=0 and the other is PRB=1.

So, if you were buying a S478 Prescott, these would be the
ones to find. (The 3.0E and slower, should all be PRB=0,
so no special searching is required for them.)

3.2E GHz (PRB=0)
3.4E GHz (PRB=0)

From processorfinder.intel.com, if you bring up the Pentium 4
processor list:

http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/default.asp?CHRID=483

and click Go, there are various steppings of 3.2 and 3.4GHz
processors. Now, the bad part, is there appears to be errors
in the individual entries, that is making it impossible for
me to verify which of the 3.2/3.4 ones are the good ones.
At the bottom of an individual entry, like this one:

http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL7KD

it says "support loadline A". I think that is supposed to be
the lower power processor, and yet the thermal rating is
listed as 103W, and not 89W.

I guess if I was buying a S478 Prescott, I would be doing it at
my local computer store, and finding a processor box with
"89 watts" written on it.

If you are shopping by price, and are not worried about heat
output, then by all means just find the cheapest one and
use it. If your room is air conditioned, it won't matter in
summertime.

One thermal limit with Prescotts, is they reduce their computing
rate automatically, when the CPU core reaches 70C. When you
install your new processor, run a copy of Asus Probe or maybe
Speedfan, and monitor the core temperature. Run a heavy computing
load, such as a burn-in application, or a copy of Prime95
(mersenne.org). With a 100% computing load running in Windows,
check the temps and see if they are getting to 70C. Sometimes
a third party heatsink/fan is required to get the temps
comfortably below 70C.

HTH,
Paul