Upgrade or OEM

[Borg hater]

Sure wasn't clear at first.

You don't need to install 98 for the retail upgrade XP to install, just show
it the 98 Cd when it asks for it "qualifying product".

Since you're starting with a bare install, go with the OEM full install XP.
If you have enough hard drive space, you can install both. You have to
install 98 first, leaving unallocated hard drive space or another partition
for XP. Some people do it this way as some of their programs simply won't
run on XP.

 

[Borg hater]

Okay, another loose OEM term. First time its Dell, this is usually bios
locked. Prior, I assumed you meant buy with hardware type OEM. All bets
off on prior reply.

Now, its a some notebook maker. You have to install this product to upgrade
it. Buy with hardware OEM or retail, install not required. Don't know what
a retail upgrade install XP is going to do regarding your laptop install
CD(s). Probably a set of recovery CDs, not an installation CD. Horse of a
different color, hoss.

Recovery CDs are part of the laptop, it dies/CDs die.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

sorry, I didnt make myself clear. I have a newly formatted hard drive in a
computer that I can install win98SE on and THEN upgrade to XP with the
upgrade version (cost-$95) or just buy an OEM version and install from
scratch (cost-$95) which is better?

I'd go with the WinXP Upgrade Retail license. Then you won't need to
buy necessarily need to buy a new license for your next computer.

There are some very important reasons that an OEM license costs so
much less than a retail license. OEM licenses are very limited:

1) OEM versions must be sold with a piece of non-peripheral
hardware (normally a motherboard or hard drive, if not an entire PC,
although Microsoft has greatly relaxed the hardware criteria for WinXP)
and are _permanently_ bound to the first PC on which they are installed.
An OEM license, once installed, is not legally transferable to another
computer under any circumstances. This is the main reason some people
avoid OEM versions; if the PC dies or is otherwise disposed of (even
stolen), you cannot re-use your OEM license on a new PC. The only
legitimate way to transfer the ownership of an OEM license is to
transfer ownership of the entire PC.

2) Microsoft provides no free support for OEM versions. If you
have any problems that require outside assistance, your only recourse is
to contact the manufacturer/builder of the PC or the vendor of the OEM
license. This would include such issues as lost a Product Key or
replacing damaged installation media. (Microsoft does make allowances
for those instances when you can prove that the OEM has gone out of
business.) This doesn't mean that you can't download patches and
service packs from Microsoft -- just no free telephone or email support
for problems with the OS.

3) An OEM CD cannot be used to perform an upgrade of an earlier
OS, as it was designed to be installed _only_ upon an empty hard drive.
It can still be used to perform a repair installation (a.k.a. an
in-place upgrade) of an existing WinXP installation.

4) If the OEM CD was designed by a specific manufacturer, such as
eMachines, Sony, Dell, Gateway, etc., it will most likely only install
on the same brand of PC, as an additional anti-piracy feature. Further,
such CDs are severely customized to contain only the minimum of device
drivers, and a lot of extra nonsense, that the manufacturer feels
necessary for the specific model of PC for which the CD was designed.
(To be honest, such CDs should _not_ be available on the open market;
but, if you're shopping someplace on-line like eBay, swap meets, or
computer fairs, there's often no telling what you're buying until it's
too late.) The "generic" OEM CDs, such as are manufactured by Microsoft
and sold to small systems builders, don't have this particular problem,
though, and are pretty much the same as their retail counterparts, apart
from the licensing, support, and upgrading restrictions.

It's quite possible to perform a clean installation using the
Upgrade CD, provided you have the true installation CD for the earlier
OS.

Simply boot from the WinXP Upgrade CD. You'll be offered the
opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part of the
installation process. The Upgrade CD checks to see if a qualifying OS
is installed, and, if it finds none, it asks you to insert the
installation media (CD) of that OS. Unfortunately, an OEM
"Recovery/Restore" CD will not work for this purpose; you must have a
true installation CD, complete with the "\Win98" folder and *.cab
files, or the "\i386" folder of WinNT/2K.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Borg hater]

Comments inserted below. Refer to my signature.

--
Lil' Dave
Beware the rule quoters, the corp mindset, the Borg
Else you will be absorbed

I'd go with the WinXP Upgrade Retail license. Then you won't need to
buy necessarily need to buy a new license for your next computer.

There are some very important reasons that an OEM license costs so
much less than a retail license. OEM licenses are very limited:

1) OEM versions must be sold with a piece of non-peripheral
hardware (normally a motherboard or hard drive, if not an entire PC,
although Microsoft has greatly relaxed the hardware criteria for WinXP)
and are _permanently_ bound to the first PC on which they are installed.
An OEM license, once installed, is not legally transferable to another
computer under any circumstances. This is the main reason some people
avoid OEM versions; if the PC dies or is otherwise disposed of (even
stolen), you cannot re-use your OEM license on a new PC. The only
legitimate way to transfer the ownership of an OEM license is to
transfer ownership of the entire PC.

Does this refer to OEM as Dell, HP etc only?
Reality check of purchase with hardware OEM XP full install w/SP1 here.
Intial install went okay. Swapped to entirely different chipset mobo.
Clean installed, activation went okay. Later changed alot of hardware,
added hardware. Had to reactivate by phone, no problems.

2) Microsoft provides no free support for OEM versions. If you
have any problems that require outside assistance, your only recourse is
to contact the manufacturer/builder of the PC or the vendor of the OEM
license. This would include such issues as lost a Product Key or
replacing damaged installation media. (Microsoft does make allowances
for those instances when you can prove that the OEM has gone out of
business.) This doesn't mean that you can't download patches and
service packs from Microsoft -- just no free telephone or email support
for problems with the OS.

That is granted for any OEM XP install CD. Have had MS windows products
since 3.1 version. Used MS twice. 2nd time they wrecked my PC in 98SE due
to a drive update correction via Windows update site.

3) An OEM CD cannot be used to perform an upgrade of an earlier
OS, as it was designed to be installed _only_ upon an empty hard drive.
It can still be used to perform a repair installation (a.k.a. an
in-place upgrade) of an existing WinXP installation.

Glad you got that right. Some here indicate otherwise regarding a repair
install.

4) If the OEM CD was designed by a specific manufacturer, such as
eMachines, Sony, Dell, Gateway, etc., it will most likely only install
on the same brand of PC, as an additional anti-piracy feature. Further,
such CDs are severely customized to contain only the minimum of device
drivers, and a lot of extra nonsense, that the manufacturer feels
necessary for the specific model of PC for which the CD was designed.
(To be honest, such CDs should _not_ be available on the open market;
but, if you're shopping someplace on-line like eBay, swap meets, or
computer fairs, there's often no telling what you're buying until it's
too late.) The "generic" OEM CDs, such as are manufactured by Microsoft
and sold to small systems builders, don't have this particular problem,
though, and are pretty much the same as their retail counterparts, apart
from the licensing, support, and upgrading restrictions.

It's quite possible to perform a clean installation using the
Upgrade CD, provided you have the true installation CD for the earlier
OS.

Simply boot from the WinXP Upgrade CD. You'll be offered the
opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part of the
installation process. The Upgrade CD checks to see if a qualifying OS
is installed, and, if it finds none, it asks you to insert the
installation media (CD) of that OS. Unfortunately, an OEM
"Recovery/Restore" CD will not work for this purpose; you must have a
true installation CD, complete with the "\Win98" folder and *.cab
files, or the "\i386" folder of WinNT/2K.

Full install CD makes more sense. Restoration CDs from a PC manufacturer
should not be considered if changing out the motherboard to something
different.

 

[Guest]

OK, lots of good information here, thank you to everyone who replied. I
learned a lot about what I asked. But everything here, combined with a few
of my own ideas, leads me to believe that purchasing the full retail version
of XP is the way to go. I'm not sure where this version of win98se (that I
would be upgrading from) even came from, and for the difference in price
(about $80 or so), seems like a big gamble. I like the idea of being able to
move the full retail version from computer to computer (I know only one at a
time), without being hassled with the OEM ties to a specific piece of gear.
I have had 3 laptops already (1 destroyed, 1 stolen) and being able to just
pull XP off the shelf and install it on a used replacement computer I buy is
a big convenience. Thanks again to all.

 

[Alias]

OK, lots of good information here, thank you to everyone who replied. I
learned a lot about what I asked. But everything here, combined with a few
of my own ideas, leads me to believe that purchasing the full retail version
of XP is the way to go. I'm not sure where this version of win98se (that I
would be upgrading from) even came from, and for the difference in price
(about $80 or so), seems like a big gamble. I like the idea of being able to
move the full retail version from computer to computer (I know only one at a
time), without being hassled with the OEM ties to a specific piece of gear.
I have had 3 laptops already (1 destroyed, 1 stolen) and being able to just
pull XP off the shelf and install it on a used replacement computer I buy is
a big convenience. Thanks again to all.

:

You can do the same thing with a generic OEM version but, hey, it's your
money.

Alias

 

[Guest]

Let me understand this, I can LEGALLY install an OEM XP on many different
computers, as long as it is never more than one at a time. regardless of who
makes the computer, or whether its new or used. I can own this OEM software
and whenever I want load it to another computer with no ramifications of a
legal nature? is that what you're saying?

 

[Alias]

Let me understand this, I can LEGALLY install an OEM XP on many different
computers, as long as it is never more than one at a time. regardless of who
makes the computer, or whether its new or used. I can own this OEM software
and whenever I want load it to another computer with no ramifications of a
legal nature? is that what you're saying?

Not exactly. You can upgrade any computer's hardware with a generic OEM.
Now, MS doesn't define "upgrade" so you could use a screw from the
computer you used to have it on, put it on the new one and call it an
upgrade. If it's been over 120 days since the last hardware upgrade or
activation on the first computer, it will activate online no problem. If
it's been less, do a phone activation and tell them you upgraded your
hardware and if asked "what hardware", remind them that MS doesn't
require that you provide that information, only the 50 digit code.

Remember, however, that there is a big difference between an OEM that is
made by Dell or HP and a generic OEM. I am only talking about the latter.

Alias

 

[Guest]

This was posted by Ron Martell earlier:

The retail version is much preferable to the OEM version, even the
generic OEM version provided by Microsoft. The reason is that with
the OEM version the license is permanently tied to the first computer
that it is installed on and cannot be legitimately moved to a
different computer even if the first computer is scrapped, destroyed,
lost, or stolen.

Retail versions on the other hand are licensed to the purchaser and
may be moved from computer to computer to computer as you see fit,
provided only that it can never be installed on more than one computer
at any given point in time

 

[Guest]

see the comments by Alias regarding the generic OEM XP, he seems to think I
can load that at any time on any computer. is that the case as you know it?

 

[Alias]

This was posted by Ron Martell earlier:

The retail version is much preferable to the OEM version, even the
generic OEM version provided by Microsoft. The reason is that with
the OEM version the license is permanently tied to the first computer
that it is installed on and cannot be legitimately moved to a
different computer even if the first computer is scrapped, destroyed,
lost, or stolen.

Retail versions on the other hand are licensed to the purchaser and
may be moved from computer to computer to computer as you see fit,
provided only that it can never be installed on more than one computer
at any given point in time

That's why I suggested using a screw (or something like a hard drive,
CDROM, etc.) from the other computer so you can call it an upgrade
rather than a "new computer". But, hey, if you've got loads of money
floating around, go for the Retail version. You even get a spiffy box
with it.

Alias

 

[Alias]

see the comments by Alias regarding the generic OEM XP, he seems to think I
can load that at any time on any computer. is that the case as you know it?

You can only load it on one computer at a time and stay within the EULA
guidelines.

Alias

 

[Tim Slattery]

Let me understand this, I can LEGALLY install an OEM XP on many different
computers, as long as it is never more than one at a time.

Absolutely wrong. An OEM version is valid *only* for the *first*
computer it's installed on. It cannot legally be installed on any
other machine, even if the first one no longer exists.

 

[Alias]

Absolutely wrong. An OEM version is valid *only* for the *first*
computer it's installed on. It cannot legally be installed on any
other machine, even if the first one no longer exists.

Ah, but the "first" computer can up upgraded and Ms doesn't say when
upgrading turns into a "new computer" so I stand by my statements.

Alias

 

[Ron Martell]

see the comments by Alias regarding the generic OEM XP, he seems to think I
can load that at any time on any computer. is that the case as you know it?

It is not physically impossible to move the generic OEM version to a
different computer, but only if you ignore the provisions of the End
User License Agreement.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Comments inserted below. Refer to my signature.

There are some very important reasons that an OEM license costs so


Does this refer to OEM as Dell, HP etc only?

No, the contractual and EULA obligations/restrictions are the same,
regardless of the source of the OEM license and CD, but generic licenses
rely upon the integrity of the license holder while branded OEMs tend to
use technical means to ensure the license terms are observed.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

OK, lots of good information here, thank you to everyone who replied.
I learned a lot about what I asked. But everything here, combined
with a few of my own ideas, leads me to believe that purchasing the
full retail version of XP is the way to go.

Your choice of course, but in my view, for almost everyone, it would be a
waste of money. The upgrade version is essentially the same, as long as you
have a previous qualifying version's CD, and is much cheaper.

I'm not sure where this
version of win98se (that I would be upgrading from) even came from,

That doesn't really matter, but worst cse, if you need a previous qualifying
version, you should be able to buy a copy of Windows 95 or 98 somewhere like
eBay for very little money--certainly much less than the difference in price
between an Upgrade and Full version.

and for the difference in price (about $80 or so), seems like a big
gamble. I like the idea of being able to move the full retail
version from computer to computer (I know only one at a time),

You can do that with any retail version--either Full or Upgrade.

 

[Borg hater]

Since these are notebooks (finally came out in the wash), they may have
drivers particular to the mfr, not part of the XP full install. Retail,
OEM, or otherwise.
An upgrade may work if it doesn't overwrite or ignore these drivers.
Doubtful.

 

[Guest]

OK, bought the upgrade, no problems. installed fine. I was worried about the
upgrade asking for the product code of my win98, but it didn't. It just
needed the CD.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

OK, bought the upgrade, no problems. installed fine.

Great, glad to hear it!

I was worried
about the upgrade asking for the product code of my win98, but it
didn't. It just needed the CD.

Correct. That's the way it works, as I said below.