Update: Ultimate Self-build Pc

muckshifter

I'm not weird, I'm a limited edition.
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... a little not on memory here ...

The terminology "dual-channel DDR" is being misused by some in the
memory industry, which can mislead the consumer. The fact is there's
no such thing as dual-channel DDR memory. There are, however,
dual-channel platforms.

When properly used, the term "dual channel" refers to the DDR chipset
on certain motherboards designed with two memory channels instead of one.
The two channels handle memory-processing more efficiently by utilizing
the theoretical bandwidth of the two modules, thus reducing system
latencies, the timing delays that inherently occur with one memory module.
For example, one controller reads and writes data while the second
controller prepares for the next access, hence, eliminating the reset
and setup delays that occur before one memory module can begin the
read/write process all over again. Think of it like two relay runners.
The first runner runs one leg while the second runner sets up and prepares
to receive the baton smoothly and carry on the task at hand without delay.
While performance gains from dual-channel chipsets aren't huge, they can
increase bandwidth by as much as 10 percent. To those seeking to push the
performance envelope, that 10 percent can be very important.

So the next time you come across a product that's touted and sold as
dual-channel DDR, know this: It's simply two DDR memory modules,
packaged and marketed as a specialty product or a must-have "kit."
If indeed you have a dual-channel platform and you want to take
advantage of the performance gain it offers, our advice is to opt for
high quality and service over expensive packaging, and simply purchase
your DDR memory in pairs. However, be very careful to order two modules
with the exact same specifications; the modules must be identical to
each other to perform correctly.

Linky

Mucks. 8)
 
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Originally posted by DarkJedi
A couple of preferences from a newbie here:

For teh video card: I'd rather go for the ATI 9800 route, it'll be cheaper, and perform just as well as the FX5900, and also won't sound as if you've got a lawnmower going off in your machine!

If you're not gonna be upgrading for a couple of months yet, keep an eye out for teh new breed of Raptor drives, I've heard news that WD will be releasing sizes of up to 80Gb in the very near future.

Good choice of CPU, I assume you've selected it for overclocking abilities? If that's the case, the Abit NF7-S board is a bit special when it comes to that: someone on another forum has claimed to get 3.5Ghz out of a 2700+ chip with the same HSF as you. He said he could get it up to 3.7 with the SLK900, provided there's plenty of good airflow in the case. Hope you'll be getting a few quite but powerful fans...

For memory: I would always choose TwinMOS PC3200 with CH5 chips as it outperforms the corresponding memory from Corsair, and is at home once you've clocked your CPU.

I notice you haven't stated what sound card your using, so I'm going to assume you're using onboard sound? Hardly the choice of a complete system, I'd go with the Audigy 2 for that myself, particular with that speaker set, as they were BORN to go together (digital connection: speaks for itself really).

Other than that, that's a kicking spec, and I LOVE that case ;)

Interesting points m8…

On the Vid…you are probably right about the ATI against the FX5800…but I’m not so sure you’re right about the 5900…many of the issues that Nvidia got wrong in their first FX’s have supposedly been sorted in the new 5900’s…including sound reduction (I hope!!).

On the Raptors…yup, I posted a thread on that drive a while back…and made the same point about them needing to be a little bigger, but definitely worth looking into at 10K rpm.

CPU…basically in terms of bang for ur buck I reckon the XP2700 is the one to go for…nothing in the Bartons FSB that make them worth the extra yet. O’clocking is not my main aim tho’…it’s just nice to know I can if I want to.

Abit mobo…I was looking at these only yesterday and checking out some reviews against the Asus A7N8X. They seem pretty good and a little cheaper. They also have a neat little space for the bigger GPU’s, whereas Asus still have a PCI slot that ends up being redundant. Only one network adapter compared to 2 on the Asus…(I think) but that’s no use to me anyway. On balance, I think I’d still go for the Asus…but I could still change my mind.

I will have 9 fans operating in the system: 2 intakes at the front, 4 exhaust (2 over the cpu and 2 above the psu), plus 2 on the psu itself, and one on the hsf.

Memory: I keep hearing good things about TwinMOS 3200 ram, but wasn’t aware it’s supposed to be as good as corsair’s xms3200…can u point me to any reviews?

Soundcard: If you check out my earlier posts you’ll see that I did indeed have the Audigy Plat in there…but decided to drop it to streamline the system and go with the onboard sound which is good on the Asus A7V333 I currently have, and is supposed to be even better on the A7N8X. I know it doesn’t really compare with Audigy, but…at least it’s a simpler setup and leaves more room in the box!

Thanks for your comments…more food for thought.
 
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Fair point about the Video card, I misread your post and though it said FX5800. I've not read any direct comparisons about the 5900 and radeon 9800 yet, so couldn't really comment. (note to self: learn to read! lol)

I now the sound card on board the Abit mobo (soundfoce I think it's called) is a heathly rival to the Audigy 2. Many people on another forum I'm a regular reader and poster on (DeviantPC) will rate this board above the Asus, but I guess it does come down to personal preference.

I'm sure I can find a review on the TwinMOS memory, so bear with me while I have a quick hunt for you m8.

Nice to have my opinions appreciated so early on. Thanx for making me feel welcome.
 

floppybootstomp

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Just by way of interest, I just bought 512MB of Twinmoss PC2700, cost around £60.00, and, so far, it's good.

I have it with an XP2600 in an MSI KT3-V board, running at 2214.5Mhz. A modest little overclock, but temps are steady at 47C with CPU at 100% usage full time.
 
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Ok, here's a quick review I found (thanx to the guys at deviantpc :D)

http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/Memory/DDR333/page5.htm

Also, one kind fellow was good enough to do a quick test of the TwinMOS v Corsair memory, and came up with these figures:

ill do a quick review here:

modules in test:
corsair XMS3500
corsair XMS3200c2
twinmos pc3200 w/ winbond BH5

best timings at 200mhz and volts required:
corsair XMS3500 - 2622 (2.5v) or 2522 at (2.7v)
corsair XMS3200c2 - 2522 (2.6v)
twinmos pc3200 w/ winbond BH5 - 2522 (2.6v)

maximum overclock (at cas2) [all using 2.8v]:
corsair XMS3500 - 246mhz
corsair XMS3200c2 - 236mhz
twinmos pc3200 w/ winbond BH5 - 230mhz

these were tested up to 200mhz on both amd and p4 setups.

Hope that helps you in your search for the ultimate self built PC!
 
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Originally posted by DarkJedi
I misread your post and though it said FX5800....(note to self: learn to read! lol)

I now the sound card on board the Abit mobo (soundfoce I think it's called) is a heathly rival to the Audigy 2. Many people on another forum I'm a regular reader and poster on (DeviantPC) will rate this board above the Asus, but I guess it does come down to personal preference.

I'm sure I can find a review on the TwinMOS memory, so bear with me while I have a quick hunt for you m8.

Nice to have my opinions appreciated so early on. Thanx for making me feel welcome.

1. LOL...if i had a byte of ram for every time i misread a post i would have the best memory on the planet:D

2. On-board sound is part of the chipset, so it should be identical on asus and abit mobos...shouldn't it? I must say, i've been more than happy with the sound on my A7V333...as long as it matches it then I'll be as happy as a pig in shit.:D

3. Thanks for highlighting the twinMOS ram and hunting for the review...a guy at work mentioned it to me as well this very day, so I'm definitely going to look into it further.:bow:

4. I think you'll find that the few regulars here always appreciate feedback, and are more than happy to give it;)
 
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Thats looking like a mighty fine machine,but I think a few changes would be for the better.

P3 650 mhz ,
gainward gf3 ti200 128MB gfx card,
Tiny monitor(17" with on/off switch for the ultimate feeling of control),
328 sdram(3 sticks of various makes),
Tiny Midi tower (slightly damaged due to glued on front)
3 1/2" floppy
20Gig HDD
onboard sound


WHAT,,WHAT YOU MEAN I'M MISSING THE POINT????

(all for sale btw for a crazy knock down price due to the puchase of a a kick arse rig as above)


P.S. If you can't afford the above I may be persuaded to exchange the gfx card for a TNT2

Oh and it's Internet ready
 
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Doh! just when you think you've got it finely honed, some little shite comes straight out of the blocks and tops your dream 'chine with a power monster!! Don't you just hate it when that happens?!?:angry:

I hope you realise i'll have to go back to the drawing board and start planning something to get back in this 'rig race'...mmm...I'm thinking: something Psion5-based, perhaps witha couple of extra valves (the realy BIG glass ones8) )...and it'll have to be legacy free of course - nothing pre-1960's in my baby:brow:

For now i'll just have to bow to a true master :bow: ...but don't worry...I'll be back:crazy:
 

Ian

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Any more updates to the Ultimate Self-build PC? I'm looking at upgrading mine and I'm paying close attention to this list ;)

Only thing I have so far is the case ;)
 
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Originally posted by Ian Cunningham
Any more updates to the Ultimate Self-build PC? I'm looking at upgrading mine and I'm paying close attention to this list ;)

Only thing I have so far is the case ;)

My sig says it all at the moment Ian8) ...I have the Asus mobo, and I still think it's about the best, but there are several good ones. I also have 2 sticks of the corsair ram, but avoided the low latency stuff as it has issues with the mobo. The two sticks mean I'm able to exploit the mobos dual channel option. The Athlon XP2700 is, I still think, the best cpu buy for basic clock speed and future overclocking, compared to the Bartons and for less cash, and my SLK800 as mentioned in another thread is cooling everything like a dream. (Even at peak ambient temps on a hot day like today and at full load, my cpu only reached 38C.)

Next major upgrades to get closer to my planned spec are: 2 WD Raptor 10Krpm 8Mb cache drives in a SATA RAID 1 config. This will leave my current WD 80Gb 7200 8Mb cache as a backkup device. I plan to put all three HDDs into icy docks...that's the beauty of having 6 exposed 5.25'' bays...loads of room for drives.

This will also clear the air intake flow at the base of the case and help cooling over the mobo heatsinks, pci slots and vid (I hope). The slimmer SATA cables won't add too much to mess inside the case either.

A GeForceFX 5900 vid to replace my Ti4600 is a definite upgrade in the next couple of months, in time for Half Life 2, but absolutely essential for Doom3 which is supposed to really demand the top in vid speed. I'm not sure the Ultra's are worth the extra cash - the 256Mb RAM has been shown to have no benefit at all (yet:brow: ) and the only other main difference is a slightly higher core clock speed...but most reckon the basic 5900 can easily be overclocked to the same level, so saving loads of cash)

A DVD writer will follow soon after that.

I reckon this rig should keep me going for another year and then I'll start looking at the 64bit systems that are likely to emerge this time next year.


It's not really the 'Ultimate' self build, I guess, but more like the 'sensible ass-kicker', so the full spec is now looking like this:

CASE: Lian-Li PC70 Full Tower
PSU: Antec TrueBlue 480W (+ SATA adapter cable)
MOBO: Asus A7N8X De-Luxe nForce2 SATA (Version 2)
CPU: AMD Athlon XP2700 T'bred
HSF: Thermalright SLK800 + 80mm Zalman Power Cooler fan
RAM: 2x512Mb Corsair XMS3200 CAS2 RAM + heatspreaders
HDD: 2 x 37Gb WD 10Krpm Raptor 8Mb cache in RAID 1
HDD (Backup) 80Gb WD SE 7200rpm 8MB cache
GPU: GeForceFX 5900 (Ultra?)
SPEAKERS: Creative Megaworks 510D
PHONES: Grado Labs SR60
DVD: Pioneer A05 DVDRW (?)
CD: Plextor PleXWriter Premium (52X32 8Mb Buffer)
MONITOR: Iiyama 22" VM Pro 514 CRT
KEYBOARD: Apple Keyboard Pro
MOUSE: MS Intellimouse Explorer V3.0 (or new Boomslang!)
PAD: Ratpadz Ratpad
JOYSTICK: Hotas Cougar Flightstick

...I'm getting there, slowly but surely
8) :D ;)
 

Ian

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I'll have to keep an eye on your sig from now on :D

What do you think of the OCZ Dual Channel 4000 Gold memory? Have you heard much about it?

It is EL as far as I know, so I will have to be careful with it - as we found out with your Corsair LL memory!
 
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Don't really know much about the OCZ 'Gold', but isn't it optimised for dual channel on Intel mobos? It also has some sort of voltage protection circuit that is supposed to let you go for some rather aggressive timings without voiding your warranty.

Expensive stuff, I guess...not really an Intel person or into heavy o'clocking, so it wouldn't be my choice at the moment, but I'm sure it would make a nice addition to a top end Pentium-based rig8) ...is that the way you were thinking of going, Ian?
 

Ian

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I'm not sure to be honest - I am in two minds. I would recommend AMD to anyone building a PC, and even use their CPUs all the time when building one for anyone else. I'm just tempted to get a nicely overclockable P4 with dual channel memory and see how far I can push it.

I am using an Intel system at the moment (still 1.8A), and it is very fast and super stable. Although, my sister's PC cost 1/2 as much as is just as fast!

I'm looking at getting a faster Intel review sample and seeing what I can do :D
 

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