Trying to PreOrder Vista Ultimate x64

[Chad Harris]

Stuart--

I tried to call for you and the pre-sales info lines aren't up on weekends.
That may be your problem since it's also the weekend in the UK.

You have every right to know what you're buying of course and it was not my
intention to make fun of you at all but there have been some extensive posts
with every detail we know about this.

We we have tried to cover this; I was at a MSFT meeting Thurs and they told
me there would be 64 bit on a DVD for either upgrade purposes or a full
version. I have typed the obvious upgrade path for 64 bit which as you
know is going to be from XP64 bit.

If MSFT chooses to remain somewhat vague about their packaging of DVDs
analagous to the way companies have inexcusably delayed making drivers,
there is not much we can do to get info that isn't there. I don't know
precisely if the upgrade for 64 will be on the same DVD as a full 64
depending on what you have to unlock it, but there will be 64 bit DVD and
by the time you can order it you should be able to get the info you want.

Come Monday, call MSFT UK and tell us what you learn.

CH

 

[Chad Harris]

Stuart I very much want to answer your question but even people I know who
are some of the best presenters for MSFT in the field can't get this precise
info as of the end of this week, because they aren't giving it or don't
have it firmed up yet as Colin has said. I can't imagine with the ad
campaign money budgeted you won't be hearing about it soon at every
conceivable location.

CH

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

That is what I suspect, but It would be nice if it was confirmed on
Microsoft's website.

 

[Chad Harris]

You could Stuart but they claim they are tightening up on the cracks.

MSFT Cracking Down on Cracks
http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/ro.../microsoft-cracking-down-on-vista-cracks.aspx


The Prelawsuit onslaught statement on Protection Policies
Microsoft Statement: More Information on Windows Vista Software Protection
Policies

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/dec06/12-14ProtectionPR.mspx

The WGA (Windoz Gettin' Angry) Team Blog
http://blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2006/12/14/the-frankenbuild-monster.aspx

CH

 

[Robert Blacher]

A bit outside my area, but -- no, as far as I know, TechNet Plus membership
is open to anyone with a credit card.
You don't need any partner or developer credentials. Lord knows, they'd
have never let *ME* in if you needed to actually know something to join. LOL

 

[Saucy]

I did the same and pour over Vista looking at the features and study it. I'm
not too interested in Office other than for email, but I install that anyway
too out of curiosity.

And you are right, it is the golden goose. I use MSDN and Technet stuff for
a variety of purposes including developing, studying, testing etc. etc. I
also have "retail" and "oem " OS and productivity software from Microsoft.

Now should you keep it QT (Quiet)? Hm .. well it is a bit the golden goose.
I would offer the advice only if the poster seems a serious type. If they
seem crazed, just tell them to wait for January. If they seem legit .. then
suggest Technet etc. -- but that's just my advice [which most people seem
to leave rather than take]. In other words, if you value the opportunity
Technet affords, then treat it with respect, right?

 

[Saucy]

Sort of where the tire meets the road when it comes to Microsoft software,
in other words.

 

[Robert Blacher]

Your comments seem exactly right to me, Saucy.

As it stands, TechNet is getting VERY overloaded. I'm sure MS will add
bandwidth/servers/etc. as time goes along. The Microsoft File Transfer
Manager that you *must* use (right?) is embarrassingly crude compared to
free/shareware/commercial equivalent download managers. And 50-70 kb/s per
file (4 files at the same time max) is ludicrously slow -- perhaps those
speeds are a result of the overcrowding right now and the rather large op
sys downloads.

All that being said, at *this* moment in the MS product cycle, the TechNet
Plus direct download membership fee seems an incredible bargain. So, we'll
just keep it our little secret.

I did the same and pour over Vista looking at the features and study it.
I'm not too interested in Office other than for email, but I install that
anyway too out of curiosity.

And you are right, it is the golden goose. I use MSDN and Technet stuff
for a variety of purposes including developing, studying, testing etc.
etc. I also have "retail" and "oem " OS and productivity software from
Microsoft.

Now should you keep it QT (Quiet)? Hm .. well it is a bit the golden
goose. I would offer the advice only if the poster seems a serious type.
If they seem crazed, just tell them to wait for January. If they seem
legit .. then suggest Technet etc. -- but that's just my advice [which
most people seem to leave rather than take]. In other words, if you value
the opportunity Technet affords, then treat it with respect, right?

I have been SOOOOOOO resisting saying what I am about to say. What the
heck:

You want a fully licensed, RTM version of Vista in 48 hours?

Subscribe to Microsoft's TechNet Plus Direct ($349 US plus tax for the
first year) and download both DVDs -- the 64-bit version (which includes
Ultimate and the lesser versions depending on which key you use) and the
32-bit ISO (ditto for versions). And, you'll get keys for all versions
which are not in any way crippled or time limited.

The EULA says you may use TechNet direct downloads *for evaluation
purposes* and activate each *version* on up to 10 computers. As a lawyer
who knows MS can write a killer EULA when they want to, that vague
language is not likely to be a mistake. If it is, act soon before
MS's General Counsel reads this newsgroup (as I am sure he does in his
spare time) and re-writes the thing.

For fear of killing the golden goose, I'm not going to go on about what a
bargain Technet Direct Plus is at this moment in the Microsoft product
cycle. Er, but Office 2007 Ultimate RTM is there, too.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with TechNet Plus other than being a
(recently) paid subscriber.

 

[Dale]

Read that EULA carefully. The MSDN subscription license states specifically
that the contents of the subscription can only be used by the named
subscriber. That statement specifically excludes your wife and your
children. Does the TechNet EULA contain any similar wording?

And even if you get the TechNet version "for evaluation purposes" as Robert
said, and you can certainly claim that you are, 5 years down the road,
evaluating IE, Windows Mail, Office, and everything else in the
subscription, you know in your heart you are not. If you get the TechNet
license solely as a way around more expensive retail licenses then you know
you are cheating and intending to use the products outside the EULA.

The TechNet licenses are intended for Windows IT Pros to evaluate products
as potential solutions to customer problems. They are not intended to be
perpetually licensed equivalents to the 180 day trials you can get for
personal evaluations.

Just because you can get away with stealing, does that mean you should do
it? I don't think it does.

Dale

 

[Hark Agin]

Robert, if I join TechNet Plus Direct, will I be able to burn a copy of
Vista 64 bit and 32 bit. And will they never expire. I just want to get a
legitimate copy now!!! Thanks.

 

[Walter Blanchard [WalterB]]

Isn't the fact that the versions are *for evaluation purposes* effectively
prohibit their use on production machines?

--

______________________________

Walter B
walterb[at]tampabay[dot]rr[dot]com
______________________________

Your comments seem exactly right to me, Saucy.

As it stands, TechNet is getting VERY overloaded. I'm sure MS will add
bandwidth/servers/etc. as time goes along. The Microsoft File Transfer
Manager that you *must* use (right?) is embarrassingly crude compared to
free/shareware/commercial equivalent download managers. And 50-70 kb/s per
file (4 files at the same time max) is ludicrously slow -- perhaps those
speeds are a result of the overcrowding right now and the rather large op
sys downloads.

All that being said, at *this* moment in the MS product cycle, the TechNet
Plus direct download membership fee seems an incredible bargain. So,
we'll just keep it our little secret.

I did the same and pour over Vista looking at the features and study it.
I'm not too interested in Office other than for email, but I install that
anyway too out of curiosity.

And you are right, it is the golden goose. I use MSDN and Technet stuff
for a variety of purposes including developing, studying, testing etc.
etc. I also have "retail" and "oem " OS and productivity software from
Microsoft.

Now should you keep it QT (Quiet)? Hm .. well it is a bit the golden
goose. I would offer the advice only if the poster seems a serious type.
If they seem crazed, just tell them to wait for January. If they seem
legit .. then suggest Technet etc. -- but that's just my advice [which
most people seem to leave rather than take]. In other words, if you value
the opportunity Technet affords, then treat it with respect, right?

I have been SOOOOOOO resisting saying what I am about to say. What the
heck:

You want a fully licensed, RTM version of Vista in 48 hours?

Subscribe to Microsoft's TechNet Plus Direct ($349 US plus tax for the
first year) and download both DVDs -- the 64-bit version (which includes
Ultimate and the lesser versions depending on which key you use) and the
32-bit ISO (ditto for versions). And, you'll get keys for all versions
which are not in any way crippled or time limited.

The EULA says you may use TechNet direct downloads *for evaluation
purposes* and activate each *version* on up to 10 computers. As a
lawyer who knows MS can write a killer EULA when they want to, that
vague language is not likely to be a mistake. If it is, act soon
before MS's General Counsel reads this newsgroup (as I am sure he does
in his spare time) and re-writes the thing.

For fear of killing the golden goose, I'm not going to go on about what
a bargain Technet Direct Plus is at this moment in the Microsoft product
cycle. Er, but Office 2007 Ultimate RTM is there, too.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with TechNet Plus other than being a
(recently) paid subscriber.



I'm looking at various vendors to get a copy of Vista Ultimate x64 -
but I'm concerned that I will only get the x86 version! There are a
plethora of rumours about whether or not the DVD will include the x64
version and I'm really not sure who to believe!

The Microsoft site doesn't help nor do the vendors.
There's no point buying an x86 Vista Ultimate DVD, it would simply be a
waste of shelf-sapce!

Can anyone point me to a page that clears up this confusion?

TIA

 

[Robert Blacher]

OK, I am appropriately chastised. Thank you for my daily newsgroup
spanking.

I've never read the MSDN EULA. I *have* read every blessed word of the
TechNet Plus EULA and I am complying with it in both letter and, as best I
can tell, spirit.

But, I'm gonna let the issue go so this doesn't end up as a thoroughly
boring thread. Saucy and I have already agreed to keep TechNet Plus Direct
our own little secret, anyway.

P.S. I'll scan and email you a copy of my law degree from Georgeow
University and DC Bar license, as well as membership to practice in various
Federal/State courts. I assume you will then reply with yours?

P.P.S. I should have resisted the P.S. above. Take your best shot back. I
won't reply if it's a flame. I will be happy to discuss and serious issues
you raise.

 

[Robert Blacher]

You have to burn a DVD. The downloads are in .ISO format! lol

Yes, subject to the TechNet Plus Direct license (EULA), you may then install
each download on up to 10 computers that *you* own for, paraphrasing, the
purpose of evaluating the software. That is very weasily lawyerspeak. As I
said earlier, MS knows how to speak clearly when they want to -- look at the
retail Vista EULA!

Read Dale's post in this thread, read the EULA, make your own decision. I
was tired last night and should have STFU! (er, yet another acronym that
means, ahem, loosely, "shut the **** up")

 

[Robert Blacher]

Right.

LOL My shortest post of the last 24 hours.

Isn't the fact that the versions are *for evaluation purposes* effectively
prohibit their use on production machines?

--

______________________________

Walter B
walterb[at]tampabay[dot]rr[dot]com
______________________________

Your comments seem exactly right to me, Saucy.

As it stands, TechNet is getting VERY overloaded. I'm sure MS will add
bandwidth/servers/etc. as time goes along. The Microsoft File Transfer
Manager that you *must* use (right?) is embarrassingly crude compared to
free/shareware/commercial equivalent download managers. And 50-70 kb/s
per file (4 files at the same time max) is ludicrously slow -- perhaps
those speeds are a result of the overcrowding right now and the rather
large op sys downloads.

All that being said, at *this* moment in the MS product cycle, the
TechNet Plus direct download membership fee seems an incredible bargain.
So, we'll just keep it our little secret.

I did the same and pour over Vista looking at the features and study it.
I'm not too interested in Office other than for email, but I install that
anyway too out of curiosity.

And you are right, it is the golden goose. I use MSDN and Technet stuff
for a variety of purposes including developing, studying, testing etc.
etc. I also have "retail" and "oem " OS and productivity software from
Microsoft.

Now should you keep it QT (Quiet)? Hm .. well it is a bit the golden
goose. I would offer the advice only if the poster seems a serious type.
If they seem crazed, just tell them to wait for January. If they seem
legit .. then suggest Technet etc. -- but that's just my advice [which
most people seem to leave rather than take]. In other words, if you
value the opportunity Technet affords, then treat it with respect,
right?


I have been SOOOOOOO resisting saying what I am about to say. What the
heck:

You want a fully licensed, RTM version of Vista in 48 hours?

Subscribe to Microsoft's TechNet Plus Direct ($349 US plus tax for the
first year) and download both DVDs -- the 64-bit version (which
includes Ultimate and the lesser versions depending on which key you
use) and the 32-bit ISO (ditto for versions). And, you'll get keys for
all versions which are not in any way crippled or time limited.

The EULA says you may use TechNet direct downloads *for evaluation
purposes* and activate each *version* on up to 10 computers. As a
lawyer who knows MS can write a killer EULA when they want to, that
vague language is not likely to be a mistake. If it is, act soon
before MS's General Counsel reads this newsgroup (as I am sure he does
in his spare time) and re-writes the thing.

For fear of killing the golden goose, I'm not going to go on about what
a bargain Technet Direct Plus is at this moment in the Microsoft
product cycle. Er, but Office 2007 Ultimate RTM is there, too.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with TechNet Plus other than being a
(recently) paid subscriber.



I'm looking at various vendors to get a copy of Vista Ultimate x64 -
but I'm concerned that I will only get the x86 version! There are a
plethora of rumours about whether or not the DVD will include the x64
version and I'm really not sure who to believe!

The Microsoft site doesn't help nor do the vendors.
There's no point buying an x86 Vista Ultimate DVD, it would simply be
a waste of shelf-sapce!

Can anyone point me to a page that clears up this confusion?

TIA

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Correct. Obvioulsy, TechNet subscribers have agreed to abide by an honor
system that sometimes is not honored.

Isn't the fact that the versions are *for evaluation purposes* effectively
prohibit their use on production machines?

--

______________________________

Walter B
walterb[at]tampabay[dot]rr[dot]com
______________________________

Your comments seem exactly right to me, Saucy.

As it stands, TechNet is getting VERY overloaded. I'm sure MS will add
bandwidth/servers/etc. as time goes along. The Microsoft File Transfer
Manager that you *must* use (right?) is embarrassingly crude compared to
free/shareware/commercial equivalent download managers. And 50-70 kb/s
per file (4 files at the same time max) is ludicrously slow -- perhaps
those speeds are a result of the overcrowding right now and the rather
large op sys downloads.

All that being said, at *this* moment in the MS product cycle, the
TechNet Plus direct download membership fee seems an incredible bargain.
So, we'll just keep it our little secret.

I did the same and pour over Vista looking at the features and study it.
I'm not too interested in Office other than for email, but I install that
anyway too out of curiosity.

And you are right, it is the golden goose. I use MSDN and Technet stuff
for a variety of purposes including developing, studying, testing etc.
etc. I also have "retail" and "oem " OS and productivity software from
Microsoft.

Now should you keep it QT (Quiet)? Hm .. well it is a bit the golden
goose. I would offer the advice only if the poster seems a serious type.
If they seem crazed, just tell them to wait for January. If they seem
legit .. then suggest Technet etc. -- but that's just my advice [which
most people seem to leave rather than take]. In other words, if you
value the opportunity Technet affords, then treat it with respect,
right?


I have been SOOOOOOO resisting saying what I am about to say. What the
heck:

You want a fully licensed, RTM version of Vista in 48 hours?

Subscribe to Microsoft's TechNet Plus Direct ($349 US plus tax for the
first year) and download both DVDs -- the 64-bit version (which
includes Ultimate and the lesser versions depending on which key you
use) and the 32-bit ISO (ditto for versions). And, you'll get keys for
all versions which are not in any way crippled or time limited.

The EULA says you may use TechNet direct downloads *for evaluation
purposes* and activate each *version* on up to 10 computers. As a
lawyer who knows MS can write a killer EULA when they want to, that
vague language is not likely to be a mistake. If it is, act soon
before MS's General Counsel reads this newsgroup (as I am sure he does
in his spare time) and re-writes the thing.

For fear of killing the golden goose, I'm not going to go on about what
a bargain Technet Direct Plus is at this moment in the Microsoft
product cycle. Er, but Office 2007 Ultimate RTM is there, too.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with TechNet Plus other than being a
(recently) paid subscriber.



I'm looking at various vendors to get a copy of Vista Ultimate x64 -
but I'm concerned that I will only get the x86 version! There are a
plethora of rumours about whether or not the DVD will include the x64
version and I'm really not sure who to believe!

The Microsoft site doesn't help nor do the vendors.
There's no point buying an x86 Vista Ultimate DVD, it would simply be
a waste of shelf-sapce!

Can anyone point me to a page that clears up this confusion?

TIA

 

[Poten Tate]

This is definitely a bargain and available now! Hope they don't change the
EULA a year from now and my copy is no longer legit. It is a bargain for us
and MS. It is $50.00 more for a copy (64 bit upgrade) but MS doesn't have to
share any of the $350.00 with the retailer and there's no packaging so they
are coming out WAY ahead! So don't feel bad for giving MS a plug. They won't
be.

Trouble is I can't get in to buy a copy. Will keep trying. Thanks for the
reply

 

[Robert Blacher]

I think I was just spanked again. Should we rename this the S&M newsgroup?

Microsoft is *not* naïve. TechNet Plus Direct benefits them enormously by
letting "early adopters" help create good buzz for their soon-to-be released
products. Those of us in the position of recommending major corporate
purchases are also welcome I am sure.

These posts are too obscure for non-techies (I purposely didn't speak in
English though I may have come a little too close in the first post in this
thread last night when I was tired), TechNet Plus itself has an amazingly
difficult to navigate interface -- I see msgs from *paid subscribers* all
the time saying "I know Vista RTM is there somewhere, but where?" -- O.K. I
STFU again.

I have read your posts for months, Colin, as a (usually) quiet reader of
this newsgroup. I respect you too much to flame you. We may have a slight
difference of opinion as to MSFT's purpose in putting these downloads on
TechNet Plus (and MSDN with which I am less familiar). But, that's what
makes free markets, even free markets of ideas.

P.S. Ditto to Dale. I hope my earlier post wasn't too far out of line. I
apologize.

Correct. Obvioulsy, TechNet subscribers have agreed to abide by an honor
system that sometimes is not honored.

Isn't the fact that the versions are *for evaluation purposes*
effectively prohibit their use on production machines?

--

______________________________

Walter B
walterb[at]tampabay[dot]rr[dot]com
______________________________

Your comments seem exactly right to me, Saucy.

As it stands, TechNet is getting VERY overloaded. I'm sure MS will add
bandwidth/servers/etc. as time goes along. The Microsoft File Transfer
Manager that you *must* use (right?) is embarrassingly crude compared to
free/shareware/commercial equivalent download managers. And 50-70 kb/s
per file (4 files at the same time max) is ludicrously slow -- perhaps
those speeds are a result of the overcrowding right now and the rather
large op sys downloads.

All that being said, at *this* moment in the MS product cycle, the
TechNet Plus direct download membership fee seems an incredible bargain.
So, we'll just keep it our little secret.

I did the same and pour over Vista looking at the features and study it.
I'm not too interested in Office other than for email, but I install
that anyway too out of curiosity.

And you are right, it is the golden goose. I use MSDN and Technet stuff
for a variety of purposes including developing, studying, testing etc.
etc. I also have "retail" and "oem " OS and productivity software from
Microsoft.

Now should you keep it QT (Quiet)? Hm .. well it is a bit the golden
goose. I would offer the advice only if the poster seems a serious
type. If they seem crazed, just tell them to wait for January. If they
seem legit .. then suggest Technet etc. -- but that's just my advice
[which most people seem to leave rather than take]. In other words, if
you value the opportunity Technet affords, then treat it with respect,
right?


I have been SOOOOOOO resisting saying what I am about to say. What the
heck:

You want a fully licensed, RTM version of Vista in 48 hours?

Subscribe to Microsoft's TechNet Plus Direct ($349 US plus tax for the
first year) and download both DVDs -- the 64-bit version (which
includes Ultimate and the lesser versions depending on which key you
use) and the 32-bit ISO (ditto for versions). And, you'll get keys
for all versions which are not in any way crippled or time limited.

The EULA says you may use TechNet direct downloads *for evaluation
purposes* and activate each *version* on up to 10 computers. As a
lawyer who knows MS can write a killer EULA when they want to, that
vague language is not likely to be a mistake. If it is, act soon
before MS's General Counsel reads this newsgroup (as I am sure he does
in his spare time) and re-writes the thing.

For fear of killing the golden goose, I'm not going to go on about
what a bargain Technet Direct Plus is at this moment in the Microsoft
product cycle. Er, but Office 2007 Ultimate RTM is there, too.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with TechNet Plus other than being a
(recently) paid subscriber.



I'm looking at various vendors to get a copy of Vista Ultimate x64 -
but I'm concerned that I will only get the x86 version! There are a
plethora of rumours about whether or not the DVD will include the x64
version and I'm really not sure who to believe!

The Microsoft site doesn't help nor do the vendors.
There's no point buying an x86 Vista Ultimate DVD, it would simply be
a waste of shelf-sapce!

Can anyone point me to a page that clears up this confusion?

TIA

 

[Daze N. Knights]

Thanks for the confirmation, Colin.

TechNet membership is not a membership in either of the other groups.

 

[John Barnes]

Surely they have the definitive information by now. What with the time for
artwork, instructions, pressing and boxing the disks, and distribution by
say the 15th of Jan (to retailers warehouses), surely they have finalized
the details. Especially with the incompetent distribution channels that
Microsoft seems to be using now (remember the exchanges on x64), so guess it
will be wait until everyone gets back after the 1st of the year to find out.
Enjoy your holidays, Colin.

Thanks for the reminder. I suspect that Ed Bott's blog, which started the
one-disk-or-two debate, probably referred to tentative plans for the
Upgrade Editions. Since XP Pro x64 is not a retail sku I can believe that
Vista x64 UE disks might be "on-demand." It would also make sense because
otherwise too many people might buy the UE boxes thinking that they could
upgrade from x86 to x64 that way. There would be a lot of confusion and a
lot of returns. It would really make sense to ship the UE boxes with only
the x86 dvd.

We shall see.

Here is a post on the subject. Best I can do for you.

Hello Colin,
I stand corrected Colin you are correct. It does appear they will ship
both 32-bit and 64-bit DVDs in the same box at least for Windows
Ultimate.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

 

[Robert Blacher]

Dale (I think) rightly took an indirect poke at me for offering free legal
advice in this newsgroup. Remember, you get what you pay for, which
*certainly* applies to free legal advice from -- who me? So, I won't.

Therefore, I am not typing the following (with me? c'mon others -- have a
sense of humor sometimes): If you sign-up for TechNet Plus while the current
EULA is in effect, that license applies to anything you download for the
year of your subscription. An ex post facto change of the EULA cannot be
retroactive -- that's a breach of your contract with MS. And, your use
rights are defined by the EULA, not the term of your subscription.

Have your family lawyer translate the above (lol)