trying to initialize a new hard drive with XP

T

Tim Cole

My daughter's eMachine failed to boot into XP; the Geek Squad at Best Buy
says a ($90) diagnostic test shows a bad hard drive, but they can recover
the photo files from it. She doesn't have money enough to do it at their
cost. Sooooo, Daddy will try to rescue...
I bought a new 250Gb HD, compatible with her system.
I should be able to install it, turn on the PC, make sure it's recognized,
and then restart with the XP install disk in the cd-rom.
I understand from MS that doing this will allow me to format the new drive
(NTFS, preferably) and then proceed to install XP and face the further
problems of trying to recover her files.
Her XP disk is an upgrade, and she says it's the one that came with her
machine.
With the new uninitialized HD installed and the XP upgrade disk in the
cd-rom and the PC turned on, the PC goes through the post; I can see that
the new disk is recognized properly but at the "boot from cd-rom" note it
returns the message "Boot disk failure, replace system disk and press
enter."
But after trying the cd-rom disk, the same message reappears: "Boot disk
failure, ..."
I have to think that booting from an upgrade WinXP disk and initializing a
HD is possible, so there must be some other problem.
When I put the new HD in my PC with my own HD removed and try the above
procedure I get the same messages, so I don't think her machine has any
other problems, there must be a problem with the new disk.
Any ideas, someone? I expect that I will have to supply a new version of
older Windows OS, like 98 or ME.

--
 
D

Danny Wareham

I would initially try this:

Download Acronis True Image and try cloning her old disk to the new one.

If it is successful, you just pop in the new drive and it will boot right up
and you are in business.

If you can't do that, then your problem actually sounds like you don't have
the BIOS set to boot from your CD.

You will need to go into the BIOS and change to boot configuration so that
the CD is read during boot.
--
Danny Wareham, President
WareSoft Software

XP Smoker - The Hot Performance Booster for Windows XP
http://www.xp-smoker.com

Popular Software at Great Prices
http://www.waresoftsoftware.com
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

Make sure the new hard drive's jumper setting is set to "master"
and it is being properly recognized in the BIOS. Review the following:

Clean Install Windows XP
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| My daughter's eMachine failed to boot into XP; the Geek Squad at Best Buy
| says a ($90) diagnostic test shows a bad hard drive, but they can recover
| the photo files from it. She doesn't have money enough to do it at their
| cost. Sooooo, Daddy will try to rescue...
| I bought a new 250Gb HD, compatible with her system.
| I should be able to install it, turn on the PC, make sure it's recognized,
| and then restart with the XP install disk in the cd-rom.
| I understand from MS that doing this will allow me to format the new drive
| (NTFS, preferably) and then proceed to install XP and face the further
| problems of trying to recover her files.
| Her XP disk is an upgrade, and she says it's the one that came with her
| machine.
| With the new uninitialized HD installed and the XP upgrade disk in the
| cd-rom and the PC turned on, the PC goes through the post; I can see that
| the new disk is recognized properly but at the "boot from cd-rom" note it
| returns the message "Boot disk failure, replace system disk and press
| enter."
| But after trying the cd-rom disk, the same message reappears: "Boot disk
| failure, ..."
| I have to think that booting from an upgrade WinXP disk and initializing a
| HD is possible, so there must be some other problem.
| When I put the new HD in my PC with my own HD removed and try the above
| procedure I get the same messages, so I don't think her machine has any
| other problems, there must be a problem with the new disk.
| Any ideas, someone? I expect that I will have to supply a new version of
| older Windows OS, like 98 or ME.
|
| --
| -----------------------------------------------------------------
| J. Timothy Cole
| (e-mail address removed)
| http://www.colescorner.com
| -----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
 
J

John John

You have to go in the BIOS and set the Boot Order (or Boot Sequence) so
that the CD drive is set to boot before the hard drive, then you will be
able to boot with the Windows XP disk and prepare the disk and install
Windows. You can use the Windows XP Upgrade disk but you will need
proof of a qualifying product to install XP. The qualifying product can
be a Windows 9x/Me or a Windows NT/2000 cd. You don't have to install
the older operating system, when time comes the Windows XP Upgrade setup
will tell you that there is no qualifying version on the disk to upgrade
and it will ask to insert proof of a previous version (cd) in the drive
so that it may continue the installation.

John
 
T

Tim Cole

For the record: I was smart enough to set the Boot Order to cd-rom and
smart enough to check the system for recognition of the disk according to
its specs and that it was set to "master."
 
T

Tim Cole

.... and the cd is fine ....


Tim Cole said:
For the record: I was smart enough to set the Boot Order to cd-rom and
smart enough to check the system for recognition of the disk according to
its specs and that it was set to "master."
Click to expand...
 
J

John John

Boot disk failure, means exactly what it says. If the computer is set
to boot the CD drive and you get the error then I can think of three
possibilities:

1- The media (cd) is defective.
2- The CD drive is defective or improperly connected.
3- The controller to which the CD drive is connected is defective.

John
 
C

C.Joseph Drayton

Tim said:
My daughter's eMachine failed to boot into XP; the Geek Squad at Best Buy
says a ($90) diagnostic test shows a bad hard drive, but they can recover
the photo files from it. She doesn't have money enough to do it at their
cost. Sooooo, Daddy will try to rescue...
I bought a new 250Gb HD, compatible with her system.
I should be able to install it, turn on the PC, make sure it's recognized,
and then restart with the XP install disk in the cd-rom.
I understand from MS that doing this will allow me to format the new drive
(NTFS, preferably) and then proceed to install XP and face the further
problems of trying to recover her files.
Her XP disk is an upgrade, and she says it's the one that came with her
machine.
With the new uninitialized HD installed and the XP upgrade disk in the
cd-rom and the PC turned on, the PC goes through the post; I can see that
the new disk is recognized properly but at the "boot from cd-rom" note it
returns the message "Boot disk failure, replace system disk and press
enter."
But after trying the cd-rom disk, the same message reappears: "Boot disk
failure, ..."
I have to think that booting from an upgrade WinXP disk and initializing a
HD is possible, so there must be some other problem.
When I put the new HD in my PC with my own HD removed and try the above
procedure I get the same messages, so I don't think her machine has any
other problems, there must be a problem with the new disk.
Any ideas, someone? I expect that I will have to supply a new version of
older Windows OS, like 98 or ME.
Click to expand...
Hi Tim,

If it were me, I would simply pull her old hard disk, put it into a
USB enclosure and hook it up to a known working computer to grab the
files.

There are a couple of causes for why you may not be able to get the
new disk to initialize. Right now it would seem that saving the data
is the most important issue.

Once you have done that, I would then just put the new drive in her
computer put in the WinXP install disk and have it do a full install.

Ciao . . . C.Joseph

"When hope is lost . . . the spirit dies."
-- Lao Tzu

http://blog.tlerma.com/
 
A

Anna

Tim Cole said:
My daughter's eMachine failed to boot into XP; the Geek Squad at Best Buy
says a ($90) diagnostic test shows a bad hard drive, but they can recover
the photo files from it. She doesn't have money enough to do it at their
cost. Sooooo, Daddy will try to rescue...
I bought a new 250Gb HD, compatible with her system.
I should be able to install it, turn on the PC, make sure it's recognized,
and then restart with the XP install disk in the cd-rom.
I understand from MS that doing this will allow me to format the new drive
(NTFS, preferably) and then proceed to install XP and face the further
problems of trying to recover her files.
Her XP disk is an upgrade, and she says it's the one that came with her
machine.
With the new uninitialized HD installed and the XP upgrade disk in the
cd-rom and the PC turned on, the PC goes through the post; I can see that
the new disk is recognized properly but at the "boot from cd-rom" note it
returns the message "Boot disk failure, replace system disk and press
enter."
But after trying the cd-rom disk, the same message reappears: "Boot disk
failure, ..."
I have to think that booting from an upgrade WinXP disk and initializing a
HD is possible, so there must be some other problem.
When I put the new HD in my PC with my own HD removed and try the above
procedure I get the same messages, so I don't think her machine has any
other problems, there must be a problem with the new disk.
Any ideas, someone? I expect that I will have to supply a new version of
older Windows OS, like 98 or ME.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Timothy Cole
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.colescorner.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

Tim:
There's a possibility the new HDD may be defective (notwithstanding that the
disk is detected by the motherboard's BIOS). Could you connect that HDD as a
secondary HDD in your working machine and check it out there to see if it's
detected in the system and whether you can initialize/partition/format it
with XP's Disk Management utility? And if so, determine if it's thereafter
properly functioning.

It might be a good idea to check out the disk with the diagnostic utility
that should be available from the manufacturer's site.

And in terms of trying to salvage files from your daughter's presumably
defective HDD, have you tried connecting it as a secondary HDD in your
machine to see if you can access its data?
Anna
 
T

Tim Cole

Thank you, Anna, for getting to the point, the right point.
First, yes, I did install my daughter's HDD as secondary in my PC; not only
is it recognized, but I can explore it and move files. I also used the
Seagate diagnostics that came with the new HDD disc and it says the disc has
problems but there is no detail. I'm wondering if I can clone her disc to
another using my USB external enclosure and a spare 100Gb HDD I have sitting
around. I tried cloning once before but had some problems with some Office
apps being recognized as well as some minor glitches. I don't even remember
the method I used.
I also determined that the bootup CD is not the right one for her PC -- I
don't know where she got it -- and I think that her PC came with WinXP
installed and no disc. I see a bunch of .CAB files under the Windows
directory and some others under Windows sub-directories. I also see
SETUP1.EXE, but I have to think that this will only try to install the
original version and may not work at all with all the patches and updates
already on her HDD. It appears that all her important data and photo files
are fully recoverable. This also leads me to think that this disc may be
repairable to the point that it will once again boot fully, but I probably
would not trust it for long.
Any thoughts? How about a recommendation for cloning program? and a HDD
repair/management program?
Thanks, again, Anna.
 
A

Anna

Any ideas, someone? I expect that I will have to supply a new version of
older Windows OS, like 98 or ME.initialize/partition/format it with XP's Disk Management utility? And if
so, determine if it's thereafter properly functioning.

It might be a good idea to check out the disk with the diagnostic utility
that should be available from the manufacturer's site.

And in terms of trying to salvage files from your daughter's presumably
defective HDD, have you tried connecting it as a secondary HDD in your
machine to see if you can access its data?

Tim Cole said:
Thank you, Anna, for getting to the point, the right point.

First, yes, I did install my daughter's HDD as secondary in my PC; not >
only is it recognized, but I can explore it and move files. I also used
the > Seagate diagnostics that came with the new HDD disc and it says the
disc has problems but there is no detail. I'm wondering if I can clone
her disc to another using my USB external enclosure and a spare 100Gb HDD
I have sitting > around. I tried cloning once before but had some
problems with some Office > apps being recognized as well as some minor
glitches. I don't even remember the method I used.
Click to expand...
I also determined that the bootup CD is not the right one for her PC -- I
don't know where she got it -- and I think that her PC came with WinXP >
installed and no disc. I see a bunch of .CAB files under the Windows
directory and some others under Windows sub-directories. I also see
SETUP1.EXE, but I have to think that this will only try to install the
original version and may not work at all with all the patches and updates
files are fully recoverable. This also leads me to think that this disc
may be repairable to the point that it will once again boot fully, but I
probably would not trust it for long.
Click to expand...
Any thoughts? How about a recommendation for cloning program? and a HDD
repair/management program?
Thanks, again, Anna.
Click to expand...


Tim:
Obviously the first thing to do - although I suspect you've already done
this - is to copy the photo and other data files to another internal or
external HDD for safekeeping.

The Seagate diagnostic report that there are unspecified problems with this
brand-new HDD is rather ominous. Just to be on the safe side (and assuming
you purchased it from a local source) I wonder whether you should exchange
it for another HDD. Or, if that's not feasible for some reason, to contact
Seagate for a RMA.

I really don't have any recommendations for a so-called HDD repair program
(at least in terms of what's available to consumers). Our experience, such
as it is with these type of programs, has been quite negative although I
have to add that many users swear by this or that one.

As far as a disk-cloning or disk imaging program, one of the ones we've been
lately recommending is the Acronis True Image program. It's relatively easy
to use and is quite effective. I recently posted on one of these MS XP
newsgroups step-by-step instructions for using that program. I'll do so
again if you're interested.

You mention the possibility of cloning your daughter's HDD to an external
USB HDD and/or another internal HDD. While you can do that, what would be
the purpose? Just so her user-created data files would later be available?
Or would you be anticipating re:cloning those contents back to a functioning
HDD when it is later installed in her machine? I raise these questions
because I'm wondering whether her OS is corrupt to begin with and whether it
might be more appropriate when all is said & done to install a fresh copy of
XP onto a new HDD and then to reinstall her programs & applications together
with the data previously saved. If that's not practical, then you could try
re:cloning the original contents back to a new HDD and see how it goes.
Anna
 
R

Roberto

Did you see the notice to " hit any key to boot from the CD-ROM "
just after the "boot from CD-ROM" notice
during bootup ? , remember this a new unformated HDD so you will see
the "bootdisk failure" until there is an OS installed on it.

rgds
Roberto
 
T

Tim Cole

Thank you, Anna.
** My eyes are not good enough to read the tiny lettering, so I did not
realize that this newer SeaGate drive uses NO JUMPER POSITION (caps are just
for reading emphasis) -- I was trying to use the new HDD as secondary with
the jumper in the second position.
** The WinXP UpGrade disc will not work in either machine; although there
is no physical evidence that the disc is damaged, I have to assume that it
is -- it is not OEM. I always wanted the WinXP with SP2 disc, anyway. Of
course, this close to Vista might make it a bitter pill....
** I downloaded Acronis and noted that I get full use of it for 15 days --
I presume they really mean "full use."
** I initialized the new HDD on my machine using the WinXP disc Manager
feature of My Computer, and now I can write to it and see it in Explorer.
** Stupidly, I decided to clone my daughter's HDD to the new HDD so that I
would have a safe copy (I realize that this would not likely fix her Windows
boot -- I just wanted as many files as I could get and possibly try to
repair the sector damage on her original disc. Whereas, I should have just
copied her data files in priority order using Explorer.
I used Acronis, as advised by a number of people. It objected to the
Partition created by XP's disc manager, so I permitted it to delete it and
start from practically scratch. Acronis proceeded to backup the old drive
to the new one. It stopped at about 18 damaged sectors (some close in
proximity, most not), and when it did I would ask it to "Retry" just once,
then "Ignore" if it was unsuccessful; it was apparently successful with
three of the sectors. After about three hours, it faltered, once again, at
sector 100,044,119, and I finally asked to "Ignore All." At this point it
appeared that it had cloned just over half the disc. During this, from time
to time, I would hear metallic clicks from the old HDD; I had not heard
these when I began all this.
I had to leave and when I came back several hours later, Acronis had
apparently frozen at about the 80% copied level. Although the rest of my
machine was available and working for me, I could not get Acronis to budge,
nor could I "Cancel" or close it by any means (I did not try Task Manager).
I was able to shut down my machine normally and it proceeded to close the
Acronis active programs in doing so. When I rebooted, I was unable
to explore either disc: No matter what method I use I get the message that
the old HDD is "not accessible; Error performing inpage operation." On XP's
disc management this HDD comes up as "Healthy (Active) and with a Partition;
it does not identify the File System as NTFS, however, which it did when I
started all this.
** So now, what I'll do is create a new WinXP boot drive on an entirely
new HDD, saving both the old HDD and the incomplete cloned one. I guess my
thoughts are that some files (about 40Gb) have been transferred to the new
HDD and may be recoverable, but I have doubts since this was a cloning
procedure, not a copy procedure, and the FAT table is probably not complete

If anyone bothered to read this far and has a suggestion how I might
be able to find and copy individual data files from either disc I would be
just tickled to death -- what kind of wine do you drink?



** My daughter's damaged HDD
 
T

Tim Cole

Anna said:
Tim:
Obviously the first thing to do - although I suspect you've already done
this - is to copy the photo and other data files to another internal or
external HDD for safekeeping....
...Or would you be anticipating re:cloning those contents back to a
functioning HDD when it is later installed in her machine? I raise these
questions because I'm wondering whether her OS is corrupt to begin with
Click to expand...
A simple copy of the important files should have been the very first
thing I should have done when I finally was able to bring it up as secondary
on my machine. But, no! I had to try cloning her disc to a new one (to
save the files and programs and possibly the OS -- if enough of the OS was
available, I thought I might install her HDD as boot 0 but boot up with the
my disc and use the repair feature, then re-clone the repaired disc onto a
new one). As I said before, her disc deteriorated even further during the
cloning, and now all her files are unreadable.
I had hopes that during the cloning process enough of her data files would
be transferred and available on the new disc, but evidently the process has
to complete fully and successfully for ANY file to be accessible -- unless
someone knows something more ???
Best Buy says they'll do it for a steep fee; eMachines says all I need to
do is buy their own $20 Restore disc and all will be restored, but I have
doubts that they'll be able to get any further than I have.

Tim
 
A

Anna

Tim:
Obviously the first thing to do - although I suspect you've already done
this - is to copy the photo and other data files to another internal or
external HDD for safekeeping....
...Or would you be anticipating re:cloning those contents back to a
functioning HDD when it is later installed in her machine? I raise these
questions because I'm wondering whether her OS is corrupt to begin with


Tim Cole said:
A simple copy of the important files should have been the very first
thing I should have done when I finally was able to bring it up as
secondary on my machine. But, no! I had to try cloning her disc to a new
one (to save the files and programs and possibly the OS -- if enough of
the OS > was available, I thought I might install her HDD as boot 0 but
boot up with the my disc and use the repair feature, then re-clone the
repaired disc onto a new one). As I said before, her disc deteriorated
even further during the cloning, and now all her files are unreadable.
I had hopes that during the cloning process enough of her data files
would be transferred and available on the new disc, but evidently the
process has to complete fully and successfully for ANY file to be
accessible -- unless someone knows something more ???
Best Buy says they'll do it for a steep fee; eMachines says all I need
to > do is buy their own $20 Restore disc and all will be restored, but I
have doubts that they'll be able to get any further than I have.

Tim
Click to expand...


Tim:
Just so I have a clear understanding of the present situation...

I take it the HDD involved is unbootable with possibly a corrupt OS. Have
you tried installing that disk as a secondary HDD in another machine and
tried to access the data - at least that portion that's important to your
daughter - and copy it to functional media? I guess you've tried that but
the contents of the drive are still inaccessible, is that it?

If that's the case, you could try so-called data recovery programs -
sometimes you luck out, oftimes you won't. You can do a Google search on
"data recovery programs". Many of them have demo versions that you can try.

Failing that, the only other recourse would be to use a professional data
recovery service. (I've no experience with Best Buy in this kind of
situation). As you can imagine this is a very expensive process usually
running into hundreds of dollars & more.
Anna
 

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