Trying to assemble home LAN with 4 routers, need help with subnets!

[Chris Shearer Cooper]

First let me describe the situation ... first comes a DSL router, then a
router that does my VoIP, then a router that does my firewall and VPN, then
a wireless router. What a pain.

I've gotten pretty good at getting things to basically function, but I don't
know enough to get things to work like I really want.

For example - the wireless router plugs into one of the ports on the
firewall/VPN router. Right now, I've got the firewall/VPN router set to a
subnet of 192.168.2.*, and the wireless router set to a subnet of
192.168.3.*. I used to have the wireless router set to "gateway" mode,
which meant that my laptop (on the wireless router) was able to use a
printer on my main computer (on the firewall/VPN router). However, some of
the multi-player games my son and I like to play didn't function properly in
that mode, so I tried setting the wireless router to "router" mode (it
recommended that anyway) and it didn't help the multi-player games, and now
the laptop can't share the printer.

Do folks have recommendations about where I can go to learn more about how
routers differ from gateways, how to get subnets working properly, what
Windows needs to have file/printer sharing work, what multi-player games
require of their network, that sort of thing?

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Chuck]

First let me describe the situation ... first comes a DSL router, then a
router that does my VoIP, then a router that does my firewall and VPN, then
a wireless router. What a pain.

I've gotten pretty good at getting things to basically function, but I don't
know enough to get things to work like I really want.

For example - the wireless router plugs into one of the ports on the
firewall/VPN router. Right now, I've got the firewall/VPN router set to a
subnet of 192.168.2.*, and the wireless router set to a subnet of
192.168.3.*. I used to have the wireless router set to "gateway" mode,
which meant that my laptop (on the wireless router) was able to use a
printer on my main computer (on the firewall/VPN router). However, some of
the multi-player games my son and I like to play didn't function properly in
that mode, so I tried setting the wireless router to "router" mode (it
recommended that anyway) and it didn't help the multi-player games, and now
the laptop can't share the printer.

Do folks have recommendations about where I can go to learn more about how
routers differ from gateways, how to get subnets working properly, what
Windows needs to have file/printer sharing work, what multi-player games
require of their network, that sort of thing?

Thanks!
Chris

Chris,

I'm not really clear how the "DSL router" and the VOIP router are setup. Do you
mean that the 4 routers are connected in series?
Internet <=> DSL router <=> VOIP router <=> firewall / VPN <=> wireless
or is it more complicated?

Is the only problem between the firewall and wireless routers? That's an easy
one to fix. Use the wireless router as a WAP.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-on-lan-with-two-routers.html>

If that's not it, please repost, and provide more detail as to what connects to
what.

 

[Chris Shearer Cooper]

You are correct that currently, all 4 routers are connected in series.

I don't see any setting on the router for WAP (it's a LinkSys WRT54GS) but
it's got an "Operating Mode" I can switch between Router and Gateway; I'm
thinking that Gateway might be the equivalent of WAP, it lets the laptop (on
the wireless router) see a shared drive on the desktop (on the firewall/VPN
router).

What's strange in this setup, is that the laptop can ping the desktop but
not vice-versa. I set up some static routing in the VPN/Firewall router
that directs 192.168.3.* via gateway 192.168.2.139 (which is the static IP
of the wireless router in the VPN/Firewall router's subnet) but that doesn't
help. What can I look into, to find out why that is?

See if I can draw this with ASCII characters ...

(Internet IP)
DSL modem
11.0.0.1
|
11.0.0.5
VoIP router
192.168.14.1
|
192.168.14.2
VPN/firewall router
192.168.2.1 --------- 192.168.2.160 desktop
|
192.168.2.139
Wireless router
192.168.3.1 ----------- 192.168.3.5 laptop

 

[Chuck]

You are correct that currently, all 4 routers are connected in series.

I don't see any setting on the router for WAP (it's a LinkSys WRT54GS) but
it's got an "Operating Mode" I can switch between Router and Gateway; I'm
thinking that Gateway might be the equivalent of WAP, it lets the laptop (on
the wireless router) see a shared drive on the desktop (on the firewall/VPN
router).

What's strange in this setup, is that the laptop can ping the desktop but
not vice-versa. I set up some static routing in the VPN/Firewall router
that directs 192.168.3.* via gateway 192.168.2.139 (which is the static IP
of the wireless router in the VPN/Firewall router's subnet) but that doesn't
help. What can I look into, to find out why that is?

See if I can draw this with ASCII characters ...

(Internet IP)
DSL modem
11.0.0.1
|
11.0.0.5
VoIP router
192.168.14.1
|
192.168.14.2
VPN/firewall router
192.168.2.1 --------- 192.168.2.160 desktop
|
192.168.2.139
Wireless router
192.168.3.1 ----------- 192.168.3.5 laptop

Chris,

OK, your layout is approximately what I was thinking. And the DSL device is a
MODEM not a ROUTER. Thank you.

The relationship between the laptop and the desktop pinging is not strange -
it's what you should expect.

Don't waste time looking for a WAP setting on the router, read the article which
I listed previously. It was written for precisely this situation. The article
explains how to use the wireless router as a WAP.

 

[Chris Shearer Cooper]

Aha! I read the article more closely and voila! I have one nice little
subnet instead of two. Very clever. Thanks for the advice!

Actually, the DSL modem is a Cisco 678 so it's got routing capabilities. It
was a real pain getting Remote Desktop working into the desktop, I had to
set up port forwarding on 3 different routers ...

So the only issue remaining, and maybe it's hopeless ... when we play
Galactic Battlegrounds, I have to host on the desktop; if the laptop hosts,
the desktop can't find the game. I suspect it's related to the ping issue.
It makes sense; the firewall/VPN router doesn't know that the laptop exists
on the far side of the wireless router ... I was thinking about setting up
some port forwarding to get through the wireless router to the laptop, but
the only way I know to do port forwarding is to a static IP, and I don't
want to assign the laptop a static IP because I unplug it and take it to
work with me. Is there a way to do port forwarding in this situation? Or
is this what UPnP forwarding was designed for?

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Chuck]

Aha! I read the article more closely and voila! I have one nice little
subnet instead of two. Very clever. Thanks for the advice!

Actually, the DSL modem is a Cisco 678 so it's got routing capabilities. It
was a real pain getting Remote Desktop working into the desktop, I had to
set up port forwarding on 3 different routers ...

So the only issue remaining, and maybe it's hopeless ... when we play
Galactic Battlegrounds, I have to host on the desktop; if the laptop hosts,
the desktop can't find the game. I suspect it's related to the ping issue.
It makes sense; the firewall/VPN router doesn't know that the laptop exists
on the far side of the wireless router ... I was thinking about setting up
some port forwarding to get through the wireless router to the laptop, but
the only way I know to do port forwarding is to a static IP, and I don't
want to assign the laptop a static IP because I unplug it and take it to
work with me. Is there a way to do port forwarding in this situation? Or
is this what UPnP forwarding was designed for?

Thanks!
Chris

Chris,

Glad to help some. But maybe I'm not understanding what your problem is now.

So you setup the wireless router as a WAP now? Is the desktop still having a
problem locating the laptop? Even with everything on the same subnet?

Port forwarding doesn't work with dynamic LANs. You're right, you would have to
use a static address on the laptop. But why is this even a concern, if you have
both computers on the same subnet?

Will the DSL modem / router work in bridge mode? Any reason why you wouldn't
want to make it into just a modem?

 

[McSpreader]

Chris,

Glad to help some. But maybe I'm not understanding what your
problem is now.

So you setup the wireless router as a WAP now? Is the desktop
still having a problem locating the laptop? Even with
everything on the same subnet?

Port forwarding doesn't work with dynamic LANs. You're right,
you would have to use a static address on the laptop. But why
is this even a concern, if you have both computers on the same
subnet?

Will the DSL modem / router work in bridge mode? Any reason why
you wouldn't want to make it into just a modem?

The OP could replace the 4 devices with one that is fit for
purpose, and eBay the rest, and avoid the unnecessary complexity.