Tiger Motherboard Bundles Compared

[Grumpy]

I am thinking of buying one of the following bundles from Tiger:

ASUS
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7907025&sku=B69-0842
$349

GIGABYTE
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8265245&sku=B69-0712
$389

MSI
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7999840&CatId=332
$389

I am wondering what you smart guys out there think of these choices,
and why or why not. Just want to make the right choice, including
whether Tiger is the best way to go.

Any opinions, good and/or bad, would be appreciated.


Thank you

The Old Guy

 

[Paul]

I am thinking of buying one of the following bundles from Tiger:

ASUS
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7907025&sku=B69-0842
$349

GIGABYTE
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8265245&sku=B69-0712
$389

MSI
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7999840&CatId=332
$389

I am wondering what you smart guys out there think of these choices,
and why or why not. Just want to make the right choice, including
whether Tiger is the best way to go.

Any opinions, good and/or bad, would be appreciated.


Thank you

The Old Guy

Well, the last bundle, gives you two sticks of RAM. So you
can actually run the memory bus in dual channel mode.

On the other bundles, you'd probably want to buy a stick to
match the one stick already present.

http://products.amd.com <--- CPU data
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php <--- Passmark

A10-5800K 3.8GHz "4 Core" 100W (mem bus DDR3-1866) Passmark=4694
L2 Cache 4*1024,
Internal GPU = HD 7660D
A8-6600K 3.9GHz "4 Core" 100W (mem bus DDR3-1866) Passmark=4955
L2 Cache 4*1024,
Internal GPU = HD 8570D
FX-4300 3.8GHz "4 Core" 95W (mem bus unstated) Passmark=4711
L2 Cache 4*1024,
Internal GPU = None
(Bundle includes video card...)

If you weren't using a PCI Express video card, then knowing
the performance of the internal GPU might matter. The GPU in
the top two, might be good for playing SIMs, rather than Crysis.

F2A85-M Pro 9.6"x9.6" form factor, no PCI slot
GA-F2A85X-UP4 12.0"x9.6" form factor, one PCI slot (old sound card)
MSI 970A-G46 12.0"x9.6" form factor, two PCI,
no built-in graphics inside 970, neither
inside CPU (use video card HD 6570 provided)

Part of the Tiger bundles I wouldn't like, is computer
case or power supply. "Ultra" brand would not be my favorite,
simply because of the difficulty of getting review info.

The Thermaltake rates 3 of 5 stars, as a power supply (third bundle).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153165

"Pros: Luckily it didn't take out my motherboard and/or CPU when
it failed 4 months of light use after purchase" Interesting...

This site does actual quality reviews on PSUs, when they
feel like it. You can tell from the posted comments here,
that there isn't a reason to be testing the Ultra box.
Ultra (like Antec), would be sub-contracting the power
supplies. So what you really want to know, is whether the
contractor is complete crap or not.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5606&highlight=ultra+lsp&page=2

One of the reasons I'm against "big bundle" packages, is
because of the risk of acquiring "land fill components",
things I'd only want to throw away. Include such disposal
as part of your "pricing" spreadsheet. I'm a bit selective
on power supplies, not because I've had motherboards
destroyed, but because I hate adding to the landfill.

If they can't do a quality bundle, they could always offer
them "sans PSU", and offer an option list at the bottom of
the page, so you can get something a bit better. It's really
a function of whether they blow up, and how long it takes

I have a couple dead Antecs here, and while Antec does now
use some different suppliers (Delta based ones would be better),
I've personally sworn off them. They won't get any more of
my money.

And since my favorite computer store chain here went bankrupt,
it's pretty hard now to cherry-pick something good (I used to
get clearance supplies, and there was some good stuff - my last
two locally purchased supplies were great, and cheap). The
last one I bought over the Internet, was a Sparkle one, as the
reputation on the model I got, was it doesn't (usually)
blow up. It's not a great supply (not a high end one),
but I was just repairing an older system, so it'll do.
If you were a system builder, it's the kind of supply
you'd put in your small business "office" computer builds.

No info on the computer cases. Could be finger shredders.
Even some brand names I trust, switched to thinner metal,
and might have the odd sharp edge. Which means the
really cheap cases, will be built like soup cans
There are computer cases now, that can't even
survive a little tossing around by UPS.

Summary:

Not a lot to distinguish the bundles. Top two need
an extra RAM module (for dual channel). MSI bundle
comes with a video card (likely faster than the APU
in the first two processors). First two motherboards
have USB3 integrated into the chipset (improves odds
of booting from USB3). So really, just little things.

You can review the motherboards, using the Newegg
customer reviews. I didn't bother really tearing
them apart. Just looked at the pictures The
reviewer comments can tell you whether the motherboards
are so bad, as to reject the bundle. For me, sticking
a fork in the power supply choices, takes me less time

Paul

 

[Grumpy]

Well, the last bundle, gives you two sticks of RAM. So you
can actually run the memory bus in dual channel mode.

On the other bundles, you'd probably want to buy a stick to
match the one stick already present.

http://products.amd.com <--- CPU data
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php <--- Passmark

A10-5800K 3.8GHz "4 Core" 100W (mem bus DDR3-1866) Passmark=4694
L2 Cache 4*1024,
Internal GPU = HD 7660D
A8-6600K 3.9GHz "4 Core" 100W (mem bus DDR3-1866) Passmark=4955
L2 Cache 4*1024,
Internal GPU = HD 8570D
FX-4300 3.8GHz "4 Core" 95W (mem bus unstated) Passmark=4711
L2 Cache 4*1024,
Internal GPU = None
(Bundle includes video card...)

If you weren't using a PCI Express video card, then knowing
the performance of the internal GPU might matter. The GPU in
the top two, might be good for playing SIMs, rather than Crysis.

F2A85-M Pro 9.6"x9.6" form factor, no PCI slot

Good catch - I missed that. No video card in package either that I
see. Thanks.

GA-F2A85X-UP4 12.0"x9.6" form factor, one PCI slot (old sound card)

One better than none. I wanted at least one.

MSI 970A-G46 12.0"x9.6" form factor, two PCI,
no built-in graphics inside 970, neither
inside CPU (use video card HD 6570 provided)

Two PCI - good. The separate video card might be better in long run.

Part of the Tiger bundles I wouldn't like, is computer
case or power supply. "Ultra" brand would not be my favorite,
simply because of the difficulty of getting review info.

The Thermaltake rates 3 of 5 stars, as a power supply (third bundle).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153165

"Pros: Luckily it didn't take out my motherboard and/or CPU when
it failed 4 months of light use after purchase" Interesting...

This site does actual quality reviews on PSUs, when they
feel like it. You can tell from the posted comments here,
that there isn't a reason to be testing the Ultra box.
Ultra (like Antec), would be sub-contracting the power
supplies. So what you really want to know, is whether the
contractor is complete crap or not.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5606&highlight=ultra+lsp&page=2

One of the reasons I'm against "big bundle" packages, is
because of the risk of acquiring "land fill components",
things I'd only want to throw away. Include such disposal
as part of your "pricing" spreadsheet. I'm a bit selective
on power supplies, not because I've had motherboards
destroyed, but because I hate adding to the landfill.

If they can't do a quality bundle, they could always offer
them "sans PSU", and offer an option list at the bottom of
the page, so you can get something a bit better. It's really
a function of whether they blow up, and how long it takes

I looked at Portatech, but their prices were some higher, which took
me to Tiger. I was looking at P's Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 mobo with AMD
FX6300 cpu.

What do you think of:
CPU FX6300
MOBO Asus M5A97 LE
8GB DDR3
Zalman Tower Case
400W PSU
NVIDIA GEFORCE GT610 1GB video
$561

Just curious what U think.

Grumpy

I have a couple dead Antecs here, and while Antec does now
use some different suppliers (Delta based ones would be better),
I've personally sworn off them. They won't get any more of
my money.

And since my favorite computer store chain here went bankrupt,
it's pretty hard now to cherry-pick something good (I used to
get clearance supplies, and there was some good stuff - my last
two locally purchased supplies were great, and cheap). The
last one I bought over the Internet, was a Sparkle one, as the
reputation on the model I got, was it doesn't (usually)
blow up. It's not a great supply (not a high end one),
but I was just repairing an older system, so it'll do.
If you were a system builder, it's the kind of supply
you'd put in your small business "office" computer builds.

No info on the computer cases. Could be finger shredders.
Even some brand names I trust, switched to thinner metal,
and might have the odd sharp edge. Which means the
really cheap cases, will be built like soup cans
There are computer cases now, that can't even
survive a little tossing around by UPS.

Summary:

Not a lot to distinguish the bundles. Top two need
an extra RAM module (for dual channel). MSI bundle
comes with a video card (likely faster than the APU
in the first two processors). First two motherboards
have USB3 integrated into the chipset (improves odds
of booting from USB3). So really, just little things.

You can review the motherboards, using the Newegg
customer reviews. I didn't bother really tearing
them apart. Just looked at the pictures The
reviewer comments can tell you whether the motherboards
are so bad, as to reject the bundle. For me, sticking
a fork in the power supply choices, takes me less time

Funny. You otta be on TV.

Paul

Thanx Paul
You're always there.

Xie xie
Grumpy

 

[Paul]

I looked at Portatech, but their prices were some higher, which took
me to Tiger. I was looking at P's Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 mobo with AMD
FX6300 cpu.

What do you think of:
CPU FX6300
MOBO Asus M5A97 LE
8GB DDR3
Zalman Tower Case
400W PSU
NVIDIA GEFORCE GT610 1GB video
$561

Just curious what U think.

Grumpy

FX-6300 is Passmark 6403.
AMD FX 6-Core Black Edition, 3.5GHz (three core, dual issue)
So it's about 50% more CPU than the others.

Note that multi-cores only matter for things like video rendering,
or for a percentage of games. Like Microsoft Flight Simulator
probably runs a bit faster with more cores.

For lots of other tasks, ones that are single threaded, the
peak clock rate (something I haven't emphasized here), matters
most. That's the problem with the benchmarking sites, is
they benchmark things that may not necessarily matter to you.
On a daily basis, 95% of what I do is single threaded, so
"six cores" doesn't buy me anything. Keep that in mind when
I swing out that "6403" number. That number matters if you're
doing video editing and final rendering (parallelism).

An FX-6300 is $120. A "retail" CPU comes with its own cooler/fan.
Make sure you aren't buying two coolers.
Motherboard is $85. A few DOAs in the customer review section.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131872
RAM for $73
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231550
GT-610 is $40
Now I need a case and supply. I could use my "adequate" $45 Sparkle,
but you might not like it. Don't forget to buy a power cord!
12V @ 32A should be plenty for this build. Fan might be a bit noisy.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103013

Now I'm up to $318 and I haven't bought my computer case yet.

I looked at the Zalmans, and those cases seem to have a fair
bit of plastic. It allows them to mould "Space Alien" type
cases. I picked this for $80, purely to have a price to work
with. Now, my shopping cart is $398, and I'm not near $561.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811235035

Picking computer cases is hard, because there are a thousand
cases for sale, and only one of them is any good. And that's the one
you want to buy

I expect when you were on the Portatech site, you were ticking
boxes for disk drives and other stuff. And that's how you
got to $561. Because otherwise, the price is on the high side.

The GT610 is a "place holder" video card. You need to identify
what you're doing with the card, to see if you need to switch
from a $40 card, to a $100 card. On a modern build, I want
to have a bit of GPGPU capability, just to see what it can do.
And that's why I might not buy the cheapest card I can find.
If the machine is a home theater machine (just plays videos),
then the card would be fine for that.

If you want to "mine Bitcoins", then you want an ATI/AMD
video card for that.

Paul

 

[Grumpy]

FX-6300 is Passmark 6403.
AMD FX 6-Core Black Edition, 3.5GHz (three core, dual issue)
So it's about 50% more CPU than the others.

Note that multi-cores only matter for things like video rendering,
or for a percentage of games. Like Microsoft Flight Simulator
probably runs a bit faster with more cores.

That helps me understand what I should need. My defunct machine was
quad, and I did not notice any helpful speed gain over its single quad
playmate.

For lots of other tasks, ones that are single threaded, the
peak clock rate (something I haven't emphasized here), matters
most. That's the problem with the benchmarking sites, is
they benchmark things that may not necessarily matter to you.
On a daily basis, 95% of what I do is single threaded, so
"six cores" doesn't buy me anything. Keep that in mind when
I swing out that "6403" number. That number matters if you're
doing video editing and final rendering (parallelism).

An FX-6300 is $120. A "retail" CPU comes with its own cooler/fan.
Make sure you aren't buying two coolers.
Motherboard is $85. A few DOAs in the customer review section.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131872
RAM for $73
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231550
GT-610 is $40
Now I need a case and supply. I could use my "adequate" $45 Sparkle,
but you might not like it. Don't forget to buy a power cord!

Good idea. I have plenty though.

12V @ 32A should be plenty for this build. Fan might be a bit noisy.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103013

Now I'm up to $318 and I haven't bought my computer case yet.

I looked at the Zalmans, and those cases seem to have a fair
bit of plastic. It allows them to mould "Space Alien" type
cases. I picked this for $80, purely to have a price to work
with. Now, my shopping cart is $398, and I'm not near $561.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811235035

Picking computer cases is hard, because there are a thousand
cases for sale, and only one of them is any good. And that's the one
you want to buy

My main want was a case big enough to handle a full ATX mobo with its
one or two PCI slots and several SATA headers, and one that provides
at least 4 internal 51/2 bays to handle my multi-booting and data
storage.

I expect when you were on the Portatech site, you were ticking
boxes for disk drives and other stuff. And that's how you
got to $561. Because otherwise, the price is on the high side.

Yeh - like a cheapie DVDRW ($30) , a 500GB SATA3 HDD ($58) and their
'performance cooling' ($38), and I guess their GT610 video card ($48).
That is where the extra bucks are. I think shipping is an add-on.

The GT610 is a "place holder" video card. You need to identify
what you're doing with the card, to see if you need to switch
from a $40 card, to a $100 card. On a modern build, I want
to have a bit of GPGPU capability, just to see what it can do.
And that's why I might not buy the cheapest card I can find.
If the machine is a home theater machine (just plays videos),
then the card would be fine for that.

A cheapie PCI-EX videocard probably will do for what I need.

If you want to "mine Bitcoins", then you want an ATI/AMD
video card for that.

Don't think so.

Paul

Decisions, decisions, .....

Again

thanks

Grumpy

 

[Darklight]

I am thinking of buying one of the following bundles from Tiger:

ASUS
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7907025&sku=B69-0842
$349

GIGABYTE
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8265245&sku=B69-0712
$389

MSI
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7999840&CatId=332
$389

I am wondering what you smart guys out there think of these choices,
and why or why not. Just want to make the right choice, including
whether Tiger is the best way to go.

Any opinions, good and/or bad, would be appreciated.


Thank you

The Old Guy

hears the thing you know what they are selling. So the question is
can you shop around and put to gether a better bundle for the same or
similar price?

 

[Darklight]

hears the thing you know what they are selling. So the question is
can you shop around and put to gether a better bundle for the same or
similar price?

me personaly would not touch a motherboard with on board graphics. That's
because of a bad experiance i had with such motherboards. But in saying that
it's down to what you want to do with it.

So what do you want a pc to do? And that's where you start. If it is for
basic use one of the three should be adequate.

for gaming i would not touch them but saying that here's a youtube video of
a A10-5800K cpu playing bf3.

I am sure there are other youtube video's about the same thing using the
cpu's you are interested in.

 

[Anssi Saari]

me personaly would not touch a motherboard with on board graphics. That's
because of a bad experiance i had with such motherboards. But in saying that
it's down to what you want to do with it.

These days, with Intel CPUs, the graphics are integrated in the CPU
rather than motherboard. Doesn't seem to be much options without any
more.

I chafed last upgrade time with a socket 1155 board, as in why do I have
to pay for all those useless video connectors on the motherboard when
I'm going to plug in my GTX670 anyways? But if there are decent Intel
chipset boards without those or with just one, I couldn't find any. In
the end I picked an Asrock Z77 Extreme4, mostly for its fast POST
time. My only requirement that's not on every board was plenty of SATA2
and SATA3 connectors and this one has four of each.

Now then, I actually ended up using the onboard graphics initially, just
plugged in power, RAM, CPU and an old VGA monitor and ran some
test software from USB before assembling in case.

 

[Grumpy]

These days, with Intel CPUs, the graphics are integrated in the CPU
rather than motherboard. Doesn't seem to be much options without any
more.

I missed that one. I'll look again.

Thanks

Grumpy

 

[miso]

I have two PCs with onboard graphics. Both Nvida. No problem, but you
wouldn't want them for gaming.

I never bought a bundle. I assume that is a collection of stuff they
can't sell.

Personally, I'd get something that uses the LGA 1150 socket. I hate when
something goes bad a few years later and you can't get a motherboard to
fit your socket. Supposedly the LGA 1150 will last two generations of
Intel processors.

 

[miso]

I missed that one. I'll look again.

Thanks

Grumpy

Not in your price range, but the intermediate intel server chips can be
bought without on chip graphics.

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/75143

This series is very similar to Haswell I-series more than a Xeon. The
RAM is unbuffered (not like most servers use). You do have the option of
ECC memory. Intel, unlike AMD, only puts the full virtualization hooks
on the Xeon parts. The unbuffered ECC RAM gets a premium, but not that
much these days. The ECC just adds a chip to the DIMM and one extra bit
of RAM.

While most servers are accessed via the ethernet port, i.e. headless,
some people like the option of being able to slap on a monitor and poke
around. This is clearly impractical on an enterprise scale, but OK for
small home office using a KVM.

 

[Grumpy]

I have two PCs with onboard graphics. Both Nvida. No problem, but you
wouldn't want them for gaming.

I never bought a bundle. I assume that is a collection of stuff they
can't sell.

Personally, I'd get something that uses the LGA 1150 socket. I hate when
something goes bad a few years later and you can't get a motherboard to
fit your socket. Supposedly the LGA 1150 will last two generations of
Intel processors.

I'll take a look.

G

 

[Grumpy]

I have two PCs with onboard graphics. Both Nvida. No problem, but you
wouldn't want them for gaming.

I never bought a bundle. I assume that is a collection of stuff they
can't sell.

Personally, I'd get something that uses the LGA 1150 socket. I hate when
something goes bad a few years later and you can't get a motherboard to
fit your socket. Supposedly the LGA 1150 will last two generations of
Intel processors.

You mean 1155?

G

 

[Paul]

You mean 1155?

G

No, 1150 is this summer's socket.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1150

Sample motherboard.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131985

http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/List.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=H87-PLUS&p=1&s=45

The cheapest processor I could find for LGA1150 wasn't very cheap.
Maybe they will release more versions later.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116895

You can also use the Intel pricelist, to see what they've released.
The pricing is pretty flat, because the differences between
them aren't listed. Maybe a difference in internal GPU (a don't care),
or in TDP (a do care in some countries). But not as big a range of
prices as I expected. You'd have to use ark.intel.com to get details.

http://www.intc.com/priceList.cfm?wapkw=pricelist

http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...une_23_13_Recommended_Customer_Price_List.pdf

There is an LGA1155 processor on that list, for $37, just
as a comparison. So LGA1155 covers a wider price range.

HTH,
Paul