Thermal paste


D

DustWolf

Hello,

I have a computer over which is a Pentium 4, 3 GHz, single core,
packaged in a particularly slim case.

The system used to be constantly overheating (with CPU essentially
running at 79°C all the time), so I put in two fans to draw the air
out. The CPU is now running at 60°C idle and thus I am still not happy
(room temperature 26°C).

Upon inspecting the inside of the computer, I noticed that the CPU
heatsink is not really all that hot, so I suspect poor contact between
the CPU and the cooler. I have attempted to refit the heatsink, but it
makes no difference, so I am getting myself some heatpaste.

However, my local store only supplies Akasa 450 heatpaste and since I
can find no comparative reviews on that thermal paste, I am wondering
how it compares to the mesh typically fited onto coolers of Intel and
AMD CPU heatsinks. Is it worse? Is it better? Is it much better?

The chipset is also running a bit hot and I am thinking of fitting a
4x4 cm fan onto it, however the gaps in the heatsink appear much wider
than the screws, so that might be a problem. Any ideas how to fit a fan
onto a heatsink that wasn't designed to keep one?

Thanks for your help in advance. :)
 
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R

Rod Speed

DustWolf said:
Hello,

I have a computer over which is a Pentium 4, 3 GHz, single core,
packaged in a particularly slim case.

The system used to be constantly overheating (with CPU essentially
running at 79°C all the time), so I put in two fans to draw the air
out. The CPU is now running at 60°C idle and thus I am still not happy
(room temperature 26°C).

Upon inspecting the inside of the computer, I noticed that the CPU
heatsink is not really all that hot, so I suspect poor contact between
the CPU and the cooler. I have attempted to refit the heatsink, but it
makes no difference, so I am getting myself some heatpaste.

However, my local store only supplies Akasa 450 heatpaste and since I
can find no comparative reviews on that thermal paste, I am wondering
how it compares to the mesh typically fited onto coolers of Intel and
AMD CPU heatsinks. Is it worse? Is it better? Is it much better?
Anything will work fine.
 
C

Charlie Wilkes

Hello,

I have a computer over which is a Pentium 4, 3 GHz, single core,
packaged in a particularly slim case.

The system used to be constantly overheating (with CPU essentially
running at 79°C all the time), so I put in two fans to draw the air
out. The CPU is now running at 60°C idle and thus I am still not happy
(room temperature 26°C).

Upon inspecting the inside of the computer, I noticed that the CPU
heatsink is not really all that hot, so I suspect poor contact between
the CPU and the cooler. I have attempted to refit the heatsink, but it
makes no difference, so I am getting myself some heatpaste.

However, my local store only supplies Akasa 450 heatpaste and since I
can find no comparative reviews on that thermal paste, I am wondering
how it compares to the mesh typically fited onto coolers of Intel and
AMD CPU heatsinks. Is it worse? Is it better? Is it much better?
My own experience is that heat paste works a lot better than the mesh
supplied with a new cpu kit.

I use Arctic Silver, the king of the branding heap, but I doubt if
it's much different from or better than what your local store carries.

The main thing is, don't use much... just a thin smear on both contact
faces.

Charlie
 
M

Matt

DustWolf said:
Hello,

I have a computer over which is a Pentium 4, 3 GHz, single core,
packaged in a particularly slim case.

The system used to be constantly overheating (with CPU essentially
running at 79°C all the time), so I put in two fans to draw the air
out. The CPU is now running at 60°C idle and thus I am still not happy
(room temperature 26°C).

Upon inspecting the inside of the computer, I noticed that the CPU
heatsink is not really all that hot, so I suspect poor contact between
the CPU and the cooler. I have attempted to refit the heatsink, but it
makes no difference, so I am getting myself some heatpaste.

However, my local store only supplies Akasa 450 heatpaste and since I
can find no comparative reviews on that thermal paste, I am wondering
how it compares to the mesh typically fited onto coolers of Intel and
AMD CPU heatsinks. Is it worse? Is it better? Is it much better?
Is the heatsink being clamped down snugly? The mesh you mention is
thicker than a layer of thermal paste. Maybe a thin polished metal shim
would improve the contact.

Radio Shack used to have a good ordinary thermal paste.
The chipset is also running a bit hot and I am thinking of fitting a
4x4 cm fan onto it, however the gaps in the heatsink appear much wider
than the screws, so that might be a problem. Any ideas how to fit a fan
onto a heatsink that wasn't designed to keep one?
a few spots of superglue?

60 C is not so bad especially if the chip is a Prescott. What happens
when the CPU is working hard?
 
G

Guest

DustWolf said:
I have a computer over which is a Pentium 4, 3 GHz, single core,
packaged in a particularly slim case.

The system used to be constantly overheating (with CPU essentially
running at 79°C all the time), so I put in two fans to draw the air
out. The CPU is now running at 60°C idle and thus I am still not happy
(room temperature 26°C).
See if it cools down more than 10-15C when you remove the side panel of
the computer case. If it does, then you may need to reverse the fans.
I noticed that the CPU heatsink is not really all that hot, so I suspect
poor contact between the CPU and the cooler. I have attempted to
refit the heatsink, but it makes no difference, so I am getting myself
some heatpaste.

However, my local store only supplies Akasa 450 heatpaste and since I
can find no comparative reviews on that thermal paste,
Any thermal paste will be fine. Can't you find any at Radio Shack,
electronic parts supplies, or auto parts stores? It's often described
as "dielectric grease" or "transistor heatsink grease." Be sure to get
the thick type that's completely opaque since the transparent kind will
drip. For cars it's used on ignition modules and to seal water out of
electrical connections, especially for tail lights and spark plug wires.
 
S

Slackeyed

www.arcticsilver.com

They have a great how-to on the proper method for installing a
heatsink.

You need very little thermal grease, about the size of a half a grain
of rice.

The contact between the heatsink and the processor will smoosh the
paste out properly.
 
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M

Matt

Slackeyed said:
www.arcticsilver.com

They have a great how-to on the proper method for installing a
heatsink.
Make sure you follow the directions to the letter. You have do the
installation while there is a full moon over your left shoulder. And
you won't get best results unless you hold your mouth right.
 
G

Guest

Slackeyed said:
www.arcticsilver.com

They have a great how-to on the proper method for installing a
heatsink.

You need very little thermal grease, about the size of a half a grain
of rice.

The contact between the heatsink and the processor will smoosh the
paste out properly.
Not necessarily so with thick pastes. I had some from Thermalloy that
could maintain a 1mm layer even after firm pressure and hair dryer heat
was applied.

I wouldn't use Arctic Silver, or at least I wouldn't pay for it, since
silver stains and will conduct enough electricity to affect high
frequency signals. The company has warned against using it on high
voltage devices, such as the transistors inside power supplies or
monitors.
 
D

DustWolf

I attached the 4x4 cm fan to the chipset heatsink by using some rope to
tie it trough it's screw holes to the legs that keep the heatsink in
place. It was the only thing I could think of since superglue and metal
heatsink didn't sound like a very good combination.

It holds in place just fine and since the chipset heatsink is now no
longer feeding off the CPU heatsink exaust, the temperature has droped
5°C.

Also applied the new thermal paste and CPU temperature is 7 to 8 °C
cooler. Under heavy load (continous 100% usage) this climbs back to
61°C and stays there.

The computer is no longer experiencing weird bugs at bootup, before
thermal managment kicks in (can't set that setting under 4 minutes), so
I am quite happy with the results.

Off for more testing... thanks guys!

Matt je napisal:
 
S

Slackeyed

And you won't get best results unless you hold your mouth right.

Sounds like you take right after yo momma.
 
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J

John Doe

Troll


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www.arcticsilver.com

They have a great how-to on the proper method for installing a
heatsink.
Make sure you follow the directions to the letter. You have do the
installation while there is a full moon over your left shoulder. And
you won't get best results unless you hold your mouth right.
 
J

John Doe

do_not_spam_me my-deja.com said:
Not necessarily so with thick pastes. I had some from Thermalloy
that could maintain a 1mm layer even after firm pressure and hair
dryer heat was applied.
Apparently you aren't familiar with the heat sink pressure I'm used
to.
I wouldn't use Arctic Silver, or at least I wouldn't pay for it,
since silver stains
You're worried about silver stains between your CPU and heatsink?
and will conduct enough electricity to affect high frequency
signals.
You really need to explain what you're talking about, and provide
citations.

High-frequency signals traveling from where to where? Sounds like
you're talking about a cordless device. Even then, the paste would
have to be grounded. Copper conducts better than silver, but putting
copper next to a CPU isn't going to hurt anything. In fact, duh,
that's what that huge slab on the bottom of the CPU heatsink is made
of.
The company has warned against using it on high voltage devices,
such as the transistors inside power supplies or monitors.
Maybe they were warning the not quite technically inclined to avoid
installing the CPU/heatsink in the power supply?

But seriously.
 
T

T3 Timeout

John said:
have to be grounded. Copper conducts better than silver, but putting
copper next to a CPU isn't going to hurt anything. In fact, duh,

Silver conducts both heat and electricity better than either copper or gold.
 
G

Guest

John said:
do_not_spam_me my-deja.com wrote:

www.arcticsilver.com

They have a great how-to on the proper method for installing a
heatsink.

You need very little thermal grease, about the size of a half a
grain of rice.

The contact between the heatsink and the processor will smoosh
the paste out properly.

Apparently you aren't familiar with the heat sink pressure I'm used
to.
I know Arctic Silver isn't one of the thicker pastes and is highly
unlikely to give that problem.
You're worried about silver stains between your CPU and heatsink?
More like stains on clothing.
You really need to explain what you're talking about, and provide
citations.

High-frequency signals traveling from where to where? Sounds like
you're talking about a cordless device.
It can't do anything at such distances. I'm referring to silver
creating shorts on the circuit traces of the tops of older AMD CPU
packages, such as for the bypass capacitors.
Copper conducts better than silver,
Citation? For electricity, silver conducts about 6% better than copper
does:


http://my.hrsb.ns.ca/Functions/Curriculum/eng/science/9/SupplementaryPages/MetalsElectConductivity.htm

It's also roughly that much better for heat conduction, too:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/thrcn.html

It's possible copper radiates heat better in a vacuum than silver does
(aluminum is about twice as good as copper here, despite not conducting
heat or electricity as well), but I don't know.

I don't know how these behave toward electricity when ground up into
powder and suspended in grease or paint, but I've never seen RF
blocking paint made with copper, only with silver, carbon, or nickel.
but putting copper next to a CPU isn't going to hurt anything. In fact, duh,
that's what that huge slab on the bottom of the CPU heatsink is made of.
Yes.


Maybe they were warning the not quite technically inclined to avoid
installing the CPU/heatsink in the power supply?

But seriously.
Arctic Silver's e-mail to me referred to horizontal output transistors
found in CRT-type monitors, a component that technically disinclined
people rarely touch.
 
J

John Doe

I'm referring to silver creating shorts on the circuit traces of
the tops of older AMD CPU packages, such as for the bypass
capacitors.
Those points that are extremely close to the heatsink are circuit
traces?

So apply it only to the top of the CPU and keep it away from those
contacts.

If Arctic Silver makes a difference of at least a few degrees Celsius,
it's worth it IMO. And that seems to be the preliminary result here.
 
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G

Guest

John said:
do_not_spam_me my-deja.com wrote:

You really need to explain what you're talking about


Those points that are extremely close to the heatsink are circuit
traces?
They're found on 32-bit AMD CPUs, surrounding the slug in the middle.
64-bit AMDs have a heat spreader that will keep grease away. In most
cases the extra capacitance caused by the metal powder may be a more
significant factor than direct conduction.
So apply it only to the top of the CPU and keep it away from those
contacts.
Better yet, use dielectric paste, which is just as good, usually
cheaper, and won't stain clothing.
If Arctic Silver makes a difference of at least a few degrees Celsius,
it's worth it IMO. And that seems to be the preliminary result here.
Why? It won't contribute to chip longevity, performance won't improve,
except perhaps if the user is trying to run the CPU improperly, and
lower temperature just for the sake of lower temperature serves no
purpose but to satisfy specsmanship obsessions.
 
J

John Doe

do_not_spam_me my-deja.com said:
They're found on 32-bit AMD CPUs, surrounding the slug in the
middle. 64-bit AMDs have a heat spreader that will keep grease
away. In most cases the extra capacitance caused by the metal
powder may be a more significant factor than direct conduction.
So keep it away from the capacitors.
Better yet, use dielectric paste, which is just as good, usually
cheaper,
And the cow jumped over the moon.
and won't stain clothing.
Are you severely retarded?

If you're talking about using the stuff all day long, almost nobody
here does that.
Why? It won't contribute to chip longevity, performance won't
improve, except perhaps if the user is trying to run the CPU
improperly, and lower temperature just for the sake of lower
temperature serves no purpose but to satisfy specsmanship
obsessions.
That's clearly a troll. It fits your first babbling reply to
Slackeyed.
 
G

Guest

John said:
Are you severely retarded?
Well, I've never made the ridiculous mistake of claiming that copper
conducts better than silver. Have you?
 
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J

John Doe

Well, I've never made the ridiculous mistake of claiming that
copper conducts better than silver. Have you?
At room temperature, silver conducts electricity slightly better
than copper.

That correction is appreciated but doesn't validate your repeated
concern about heatsink grease staining someone's clothes. Most of us
use CPU heatsink grease once or twice a year and put a very tiny
amount of the grease on the CPU instead of smearing it on our
clothes.

Your dislike of Arctic Silver sounds like a personal problem. The
question is whether it helps reduce CPU temperature when compared
with other readily available heatsink greases.
 

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