The difference between CL2 and CL3 memory

O

Oenone

I've ordered a custom build PC with the following specification:

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum-SLI motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ CPU
1Gb CL2.0 PC3200 DDR RAM
Radeon X800XL graphics card

Unfortunately the company have run out of the CL2.0 memory and currently
only have 3.0 in stock.

Would the group recommend that I wait for the CL2.0 memory to come in or is
the difference between the two not enough to worry about?

The PC will be used for high-end gaming.
 
M

Mike Walsh

If the memory controller is configured for CL2 (the BIOS should display the setting) you must use CL2 memory. If it is configured for CL3, then you can use either. You could change the setting from CL2 to CL3 and use CL3 memory. Performance would be only slightly slower.
 
C

Cuzman

Mike Walsh wrote:

" If the memory controller is configured for CL2 (the BIOS should
display the setting) you must use CL2 memory. If it is configured for
CL3, then you can use either. You could change the setting from CL2 to
CL3 and use CL3 memory. "


All the recent motherboards I've worked with have a *read from SPD* (or
similarly stated) function enabled by default in the BIOS. Whatever
rated timings the RAM has, it should read them through the SPD function
and synchronize them as such with these rated timings.

Let's say you have CL3 RAM and you manually set timings to CL2 in the
BIOS, overriding the SPD function. On rebooting, the system may or may
not post depending on whether the CL3 RAM can handle CL2. It could be
that it won't handle CL2, but may handle CL2.5 quite easily. All RAM
can produce differing results, and if it doesn't post then all you need
do is reset the CMOS for the BIOS settings to go back to default.
However, even if RAM does post at settings lower than those which the
manufacturer guarantees, it is still not a certainty of it causing zero
errors in real-time useage. You may need to run several benchmarks to
confirm the stability before leaving the timings set lower than those
guaranteed.

The timings that the manufacturers put on RAM only represent those which
they guarantee to work at the rated speed. There's often some leeway
from that which they state, i.e. you might get RAM with timings of
3-4-4-8 to run stable at 2.5-3-3-7, while others could crash, produce
errors or refuse to post when you attempt to lower a single timing.
It's very much a hit-and-miss game, as with any aspect of overclocking.
 
C

Cuzman

Oenone wrote:

" Unfortunately the company have run out of the CL2.0 memory and
currently only have 3.0 in stock. Would the group recommend that I wait
for the CL2.0 memory to come in or is the difference between the two not
enough to worry about? "


All you state is that they are planning to replace the *CL2* RAM with
*CL3*, which doesn't state any of the other RAM timings or the actual
manufacturers and products involved. If the RAM timings are 2-2-2-5 and
3-4-4-8 respectively, then you could see a difference of... err...
maybe 1% to 10% depending on the benchmark in question. Most results
would be well towards the lower end of that scale though, so you are
unlikely to notice any difference with the naked eye. However, also
bear in mind that DDR400 with 3-4-4-8 timings will allow a lot less
overclocking headroom than 2-2-2-5 rated counterparts.

You don't get many reviews and benchmarking comparisons where they test
extensive ranges of RAM on the exact same setup. It's something I would
like to see done properly.
 
S

stubborn

I've ordered a custom build PC with the following specification:

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum-SLI motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ CPU
1Gb CL2.0 PC3200 DDR RAM
Radeon X800XL graphics card

Unfortunately the company have run out of the CL2.0 memory and currently
only have 3.0 in stock.

Would the group recommend that I wait for the CL2.0 memory to come in or is
the difference between the two not enough to worry about?

The PC will be used for high-end gaming.

CL2.0 = CAS-2 = Column Address Strobe 2 clock cycles

The numbers you are refering to represent the number of clock cycles
required to access or activate the various rows and columns of the RAM
modules or memory banks. But there is more to it than that and
requires you to understand just how memory works before you can decide
if super fast settings will appreciably affect the performance of your
particular setup and programs. The ability to quickly transfer large
amounts of data may not be necessary for your end use. If you have a
quality, and fast processor you will only need fast RAM modules if
your computer will be computing a lot or encoding video. For any other
application, including games, slower RAM is fine.

" Think of a clock cycle as one tick of the second hand (but generally
at a much higher speed). Computer clocks run voltage through a tiny
crystal that oscillates at a predictable speed to give a meaningful
timing method to the computer. One clock cycle doesn't necessarily
mean that the processor does one operation. Today's high-end
processors often complete more than one operation per clock cycle, and
other times, in the worst cases, it will take several clock cycles to
complete one operation."

another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_frequency

Tom's Hardware has a good primer for understanding these numbers
http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040119/

Here is a quote:
"Information is stored by first separating the memory area into rows
and columns. The capacity of the individual chips determines the
number of rows and columns per module. When several arrays are
combined, they create memory banks.

The chips are actually accessed by means of control signals such as
row address strobe (RAS), column address strobe (CAS), write enable
(WE), chip select (CS) and several additional commands (DQ).

In today's computers, a command rate is defined in BIOS - generally
1-2 cycles. This describes the amount of time it takes for the RAS to
be executed after the memory chip has been selected.

The memory controller selects the active row. But before the row will
actually become active so that the columns can be accessed, the
controller has to wait for 2-3 cycles - tRCD (RAS-to-CAS delay). Then
it sends the actual read command, which is also followed by a delay -
the CAS latency. For DDR RAM, CAS latency is 2, 2.5 or 3 cycles. Once
this time has lapsed, the data will be sent to the DQ pins. After the
data has been retrieved, the controller has to deactivate the row
again, which is done within tRP (RAS precharge time).

There is one more technical restriction - tRAS (active-to-precharge
delay). This is the fewest number of cycles that a row has to be
active before it can be deactivated again. 5-8 cycles are about
average for tRAS."
 
K

kony

I've ordered a custom build PC with the following specification:

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum-SLI motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ CPU
1Gb CL2.0 PC3200 DDR RAM
Radeon X800XL graphics card

Unfortunately the company have run out of the CL2.0 memory and currently
only have 3.0 in stock.

Tell them to get CL2 or you'll take your business elsewhere.
Just like anyone else, they can order CL2 memory... that
idea about "in stock" is irrelevant as the moment they ran
out of stock they should've been ordering some, which should
have arrived in time to finish your system.

Do not settle for CL3, at least get CL2.5. CL3 is
inappropriate for that system, will lower your framerates a
little, and makes it more difficult to ever add memory and
keep it all stable. CL3 is essentially memory that is left
over because nobody really wants it, as it's barely cheaper
than CAS2.5 if any cheaper. If you were going to settle for
CAS3, you'd be as well off to order the PC with NO memory in
it then buy some yourself.

Would the group recommend that I wait for the CL2.0 memory to come in or is
the difference between the two not enough to worry about?

The PC will be used for high-end gaming.

I have to wonder about the competence of this company if
they don't even keep CAS2 or 2.5 in stock. If they only
stock low-end memory you might want to inquire further about
what other *budgetized* componentry is going to be used in
the system, like the fans, power supply, case.
 

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