Temperature question on a new built PC.....


C

cmgray74

Hi all,

I have the following specs.....

ASPIRE X-Superalien ATXA6SW-BK/500 Case - Retail - 5 fan
Gigabyte GA-8I945P-PRO Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945P ATX Intel
Motherboard - Retail
Penitum 4 3.6GHz Processor - Retail ( 560 3.6GHZ 800MHZ LGA775 1MB)
Leadtek PX6600TD-256 Geforce 6600 256MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card
- OEM
2 - NEC 16X DVD±R DVD
PNY Optima 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 - Retail
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L080M0 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150

The machine is usually used for web browsing, software development, and
the occasional game. The machine has been running since Early February
of this year.

Here is something I saw last night and I was concerned about and I need
some input;

Normally the PC runs around the 40 degrees Celsius area (much cooler
(10 or more degrees ) less in the winter but summer months of course
everything is raised by the room temp).

I went to run Doom3 that I bought a while back, but with children and
family duties its been sitting waiting for me to play it. I went to run
it late last night and the temperature alarm went off after about 10
minutes of game play. So once I realized what the beeping was, and not
part of the game, I turned the game off (<3 minutes). The temperature
according to the case was at around 50-51 degrees celsius and the HD
temp was at 28 degrees Celsius. The temperature dropped to the lower
40's in less then a minute. I repositioned my case to make sure there
was adequate ventilation space and I turned up my fans all the way up
on the Case (2 knobs). I then tried and run the game again. The machine
sat at the mid 40's (46-47) according to the case temp. The temp in the
room was in the lower to mid 80s (it felt very warm to me). When I
ended the game for the night the machine dropped to 39-40 degrees
Celsius.

When I built this machine the Retail Intel Processor said not to apply
heat sink gel/paste and to apply the fan directly to CPU/MOBO. There
was a tape like product attached to the bottom of the CPU fan. I think
in all my system has like eight fans (5 case, 1 CPU, 1 chipset fan,
and 1 on the Graphics card. Realizing this I set the alarm in the Bios
to go off at the lowest overheat point when I built it.

So here are finally my questions;

1) Is these above temperature anything to be concerned about?

2) Should I have added heat sink gel even though the Intel directions
basically say it will possibly hinder the included fan/warranty?

3) What is the normal safe operating temperature for this processor?

Thanks for the help,
Chris
 
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M

Mike T.

So here are finally my questions;

1) Is these above temperature anything to be concerned about?

2) Should I have added heat sink gel even though the Intel directions
basically say it will possibly hinder the included fan/warranty?

3) What is the normal safe operating temperature for this processor?

Thanks for the help,
Chris

1) No, not at all. You set the heat alarm too low, so you unintentionally
scared yourself. :)

2) Generally, the retail boxed processors have some kind of thermal paste
on them (often a waxy substance), from the factory. It will be protected by
a plastic cover. The plastic cover will cover JUST the thermal paste area,
or it will cover the entire bottom of the heatsink. If you'd have messed up
and left the plastic cover on, you would have got a heat alarm the first
time the system was powered on. Or, it might have shut itself down
automatically. But your indicated temps. seem to indicate that you got the
heatsink installed correctly.

3) From what I just read, I believe the safe range is up to 60C or about
140F for that processor. But theoretically, if you had the heat alarm set
at 50C, it would make perfect sense that the heat alarm would go off when
you started playing a game. Games will heat up the processor and other
components. 51C is warm, but nothing to be concerned about.

Try setting your heat alarm at 60C, with an automatic shutdown temperature
of ~70C or ~150F (set shutdown above 60C somewhere, but not too far above
60C). -Dave
 
C

Chris Hill

1) Is these above temperature anything to be concerned about?
No; just turn the fans up when you play.
2) Should I have added heat sink gel even though the Intel directions
basically say it will possibly hinder the included fan/warranty?
No; it wouldn't be worth voiding the warranty. The pads are almost as
good.
3) What is the normal safe operating temperature for this processor?
I've heard that some can go up to 70c, you have nothing to worry
about.
 
C

Clint

I'm confused. Are you all talking about case temperatures, motherboard
temps, or CPU temps? It would also be good to stick with one measurement
scale, as I'm assuming the 80+ room temp is not in Celsius anymore. :) I
hope not, for your sake!

Under load, your CPU temps should probably be under 70C. Probably closer to
60 to be happy. My Intel P4 830D processor (3.0GHz, dual core) doesn't get
over 55 under full load. At some point warmer than 60, it's probably going
to start to throttle the CPU to cool it down. While this may protect your
processor, it won't make you happy with the systems performance. The Intel
website should have the actual temp's listed, if you want to dig into it.

Use either the stuff that came on the HS, or apply some Arctic Silver or
equivalent thermal compound. Don't use both, and follow the directions if
you use the compound. Getting the other stuff off will be fun, I'm sure.

A case temp of 47 is quite warm, but if your room is 80+ degrees, it makes
sense. 85F = 30C, so you're only 17C above room temp. It may not matter
how many fans you've got blowing in there, if you're blowing in warm air. :)
Again, it would be nice to know if you're measuring the case (air) temp, or
the motherboard temp. Two different measures. At full load, my system has
a max motherboard temp of just over 40C, which is about 18 degrees above
room temp. I don't know what the air temp in the case is, but I imagine it
will be cooler than that.

One thing you may want to look at (and experiment with) is what direction
your fans are blowing. You've got a lot of air movement, but if they're all
fighting each other (like all of them blowing in, or all out), then you're
not going to have much success. Figure out which way they're blowing and
approximately how much air they're each moving (based on size?), and try to
visualize or diagram the airflow. Keep in mind your PSU fan, which you
didn't mention (unless that's one of your 5 case fans). Personally, I
can't see the need for all that ventilation, but I'm not used to dealing
with those kind of room temps. I'm from Canada, eh, and we keep things cool
up here. :)

Clint

Hi all,

I have the following specs.....

ASPIRE X-Superalien ATXA6SW-BK/500 Case - Retail - 5 fan
Gigabyte GA-8I945P-PRO Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945P ATX Intel
Motherboard - Retail
Penitum 4 3.6GHz Processor - Retail ( 560 3.6GHZ 800MHZ LGA775 1MB)
Leadtek PX6600TD-256 Geforce 6600 256MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card
- OEM
2 - NEC 16X DVD±R DVD
PNY Optima 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 - Retail
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L080M0 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150

The machine is usually used for web browsing, software development, and
the occasional game. The machine has been running since Early February
of this year.

Here is something I saw last night and I was concerned about and I need
some input;

Normally the PC runs around the 40 degrees Celsius area (much cooler
(10 or more degrees ) less in the winter but summer months of course
everything is raised by the room temp).

I went to run Doom3 that I bought a while back, but with children and
family duties its been sitting waiting for me to play it. I went to run
it late last night and the temperature alarm went off after about 10
minutes of game play. So once I realized what the beeping was, and not
part of the game, I turned the game off (<3 minutes). The temperature
according to the case was at around 50-51 degrees celsius and the HD
temp was at 28 degrees Celsius. The temperature dropped to the lower
40's in less then a minute. I repositioned my case to make sure there
was adequate ventilation space and I turned up my fans all the way up
on the Case (2 knobs). I then tried and run the game again. The machine
sat at the mid 40's (46-47) according to the case temp. The temp in the
room was in the lower to mid 80s (it felt very warm to me). When I
ended the game for the night the machine dropped to 39-40 degrees
Celsius.

When I built this machine the Retail Intel Processor said not to apply
heat sink gel/paste and to apply the fan directly to CPU/MOBO. There
was a tape like product attached to the bottom of the CPU fan. I think
in all my system has like eight fans (5 case, 1 CPU, 1 chipset fan,
and 1 on the Graphics card. Realizing this I set the alarm in the Bios
to go off at the lowest overheat point when I built it.

So here are finally my questions;

1) Is these above temperature anything to be concerned about?

2) Should I have added heat sink gel even though the Intel directions
basically say it will possibly hinder the included fan/warranty?

3) What is the normal safe operating temperature for this processor?

Thanks for the help,
Chris
 
P

Paul

Hi all,

I have the following specs.....

ASPIRE X-Superalien ATXA6SW-BK/500 Case - Retail - 5 fan
Gigabyte GA-8I945P-PRO Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945P ATX Intel
Motherboard - Retail
Penitum 4 3.6GHz Processor - Retail ( 560 3.6GHZ 800MHZ LGA775 1MB)
Leadtek PX6600TD-256 Geforce 6600 256MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card
- OEM
2 - NEC 16X DVD=B1R DVD
PNY Optima 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 - Retail
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L080M0 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150

The machine is usually used for web browsing, software development, and
the occasional game. The machine has been running since Early February
of this year.

Here is something I saw last night and I was concerned about and I need
some input;

Normally the PC runs around the 40 degrees Celsius area (much cooler
(10 or more degrees ) less in the winter but summer months of course
everything is raised by the room temp).

I went to run Doom3 that I bought a while back, but with children and
family duties its been sitting waiting for me to play it. I went to run
it late last night and the temperature alarm went off after about 10
minutes of game play. So once I realized what the beeping was, and not
part of the game, I turned the game off (<3 minutes). The temperature
according to the case was at around 50-51 degrees celsius and the HD
temp was at 28 degrees Celsius. The temperature dropped to the lower
40's in less then a minute. I repositioned my case to make sure there
was adequate ventilation space and I turned up my fans all the way up
on the Case (2 knobs). I then tried and run the game again. The machine
sat at the mid 40's (46-47) according to the case temp. The temp in the
room was in the lower to mid 80s (it felt very warm to me). When I
ended the game for the night the machine dropped to 39-40 degrees
Celsius.

When I built this machine the Retail Intel Processor said not to apply
heat sink gel/paste and to apply the fan directly to CPU/MOBO. There
was a tape like product attached to the bottom of the CPU fan. I think
in all my system has like eight fans (5 case, 1 CPU, 1 chipset fan,
and 1 on the Graphics card. Realizing this I set the alarm in the Bios
to go off at the lowest overheat point when I built it.

So here are finally my questions;

1) Is these above temperature anything to be concerned about?

2) Should I have added heat sink gel even though the Intel directions
basically say it will possibly hinder the included fan/warranty?

3) What is the normal safe operating temperature for this processor?

Thanks for the help,
Chris
Your processor is loaded with protection features. The 560
is documented here:

ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30235104.pdf
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL7NZ

Max case temperature for the processor is 72.8C. That is not
the same thing as the silicon die temperature, and the die
will always be hotter than the heat spreader (case). On some
motherboards, the diode inside the processor is what is used
to measure the temperature.

The processor has several thermal protection features. If the
processor is truly getting too hot, it will throttle its processing
rate. You can test for that, with programs like RMclock or
Throttlewatch.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/cpu/intel-thermal-features-p4.html

The final protection feature is THERMTRIP, which triggers at
20C above the max case temperature. At 92.8C diode temperature,
the processor will shut off the computer (not a controlled
shutdown, just kaboom, no power).

You should use whatever utility the motherboard comes with,
to measure the temperatures. In the past, people have used
MBM6 (mbm.livewiredev.com), but it is no longer supported,
and newer motherboards won't have supported added. Speedfan
(almico.com) is another program that does some basic measuring.
You can use programs like that, to try to determine what temp
triggered your "alarm". If the alarm is a BIOS function, you
might not have as much control over it, as if this is
a Windows program that provides the alarm indication.

A more immediate concern, is what is the disk drive
temperature inside the case. The disk drive has more to
lose than the processor, and cannot take as much heat as
the processor can. Thus, ventilate the computer case for the
benefit of the disk drive, and "pass the savings" on to the
CPU.

If you want to reduce the processor temperature further, there
are all sorts of after-market coolers. Fitting another cooler,
is only essential if the processor is throttling while you are
using it, as throttling kinda eliminates the reason you bought
an expensive processor in the first place. So if, say, RMclock
showed the real clock rate dropping, while you are playing
Doom, then you might consider means to improve the cooling
until the processor can run at full speed under any
conditions.

Paul
 
C

cmgray74

All,
I was ok like nothing to worry about, after reading the post, then I
went home last night and my Quake 4 arrived from Amazon. So I decided
to install it.

I played about 20 minutes when the alarm went off again. So I saved my
game and went to check the temp. The case said 50-51 degrees. So off I
went to the Bios to see what the setting were again and the temp read
mid to upper 60s. So there is like a 15 or so degree difference between
processor temp and what my case reads.

So I started looking around and there is dust everywhere. My one fan is
actually caked with it. (I am the middle of a complete remodel in my
house so that probably some of it) Anyway I get my trusty can of air
and completely blow out the system. The processor fan was full of dust
as well. So I took off the cooling fan and blew it all out.
I think this was a mistake now. Anyways I got handfuls of Dust (no joke
on a 3 or so month old machine) out in either case.

Anyways I took the advice of the people I have spoke to here in the
Newsgroup and redirected the fans to help with cooling.

The layout is like this;

Two fans on the back (not Power Supply) that blow air out.(Higher then
the HD front fans)
There are two fans in front under the DVD drives that blow air in
across the Hard Drive.
The CPU\Motherboard fans blow air out from the motherboard.
The power Supply sucks air in and blows it into the case by a two fan
thru combination.
The one I can't change easily is the side cover has a fan blowing
against the CPU/MOBO that is plastic riveted in.

Anyways I noticed that the CPU cooling fan/tape/sticker was now just
like goo - now all over the chip and back of the Cooler. So I installed
it back to the board figuring there was enough as I had not cleaned
anything off of it. (mistake?)

So now when I turn the machine on the alarm instantly goes off and will
shut off before Windows loads. I checked the seating of the cooler and
it looks like its sitting ok (Tight on).

So I am figuring I need some CPU/Cooling Gel/goo.

So here is my questions;

What is the best Cooling Gel/Goo and also what is a good\best for the
money cpu cooler?

I have the machine set to Safe default settings and I am not
overclocking this thing in any way so I would assume that its got to be
the goo thing. Is there anything else that could case this over heat
issue?

Thanks,
Chris
SolomonMan
 
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C

Chris Hill

All,
I was ok like nothing to worry about, after reading the post, then I
went home last night and my Quake 4 arrived from Amazon. So I decided
to install it.

I played about 20 minutes when the alarm went off again. So I saved my
game and went to check the temp. The case said 50-51 degrees. So off I
went to the Bios to see what the setting were again and the temp read
mid to upper 60s. So there is like a 15 or so degree difference between
processor temp and what my case reads.

So I started looking around and there is dust everywhere. My one fan is
actually caked with it. (I am the middle of a complete remodel in my
house so that probably some of it) Anyway I get my trusty can of air
and completely blow out the system. The processor fan was full of dust
as well. So I took off the cooling fan and blew it all out.
I think this was a mistake now. Anyways I got handfuls of Dust (no joke
on a 3 or so month old machine) out in either case.

Anyways I took the advice of the people I have spoke to here in the
Newsgroup and redirected the fans to help with cooling.

The layout is like this;

Two fans on the back (not Power Supply) that blow air out.(Higher then
the HD front fans)
There are two fans in front under the DVD drives that blow air in
across the Hard Drive.
The CPU\Motherboard fans blow air out from the motherboard.
The power Supply sucks air in and blows it into the case by a two fan
thru combination.
The one I can't change easily is the side cover has a fan blowing
against the CPU/MOBO that is plastic riveted in.

Anyways I noticed that the CPU cooling fan/tape/sticker was now just
like goo - now all over the chip and back of the Cooler. So I installed
it back to the board figuring there was enough as I had not cleaned
anything off of it. (mistake?)

So now when I turn the machine on the alarm instantly goes off and will
shut off before Windows loads. I checked the seating of the cooler and
it looks like its sitting ok (Tight on).

So I am figuring I need some CPU/Cooling Gel/goo.

So here is my questions;

What is the best Cooling Gel/Goo and also what is a good\best for the
money cpu cooler?

I have the machine set to Safe default settings and I am not
overclocking this thing in any way so I would assume that its got to be
the goo thing. Is there anything else that could case this over heat

I would clean the crap off and start over. I doubt that in and of
itself is causing your problem; that heatsink isn't properly mounted,
end of story.
 
C

cmgray74

Chris,
I believe your probably right.

I am going to look it over this evening, it was late last night and
maybe things are not as good as I think.

I also bought a tube of Artic Silver locally and will clean the
processor off and reseat the processor.

Thanks,
Chris
SolomonMan
 
C

Chris Hill

Chris,
I believe your probably right.

I am going to look it over this evening, it was late last night and
maybe things are not as good as I think.

I also bought a tube of Artic Silver locally and will clean the
processor off and reseat the processor.

That's what you need to do. Just clean it good and pay close
attention when you reinstall, you don't need much compound either.
 
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C

cmgray74

All,
I applied the Artic Silver to the CPU/Cooling Fan and the CPU sits at
around 55 degrees Celsius and below now on a 85 degree Fahrenheit Day.
The CPU temp did not set any alarms or anything off after playing for
about 6 straight hours of Quake 4 the other night. A Good Test :)

Thanks for all the help,
Chris
 

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