surge protection - power cut during surge?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gav
  • Start date Start date
G

Gav

hi all!

we had just had a storm here and all my computers that were hooked
into surge strips got reset at the same time during it.

The wierd thing is I also had a laptop running on a normal outlet and
it did NOT get reset - is the cutting off of power to the devices you
are trying to protect part of the protection system in action?

It just seems really odd that only the devices on surge strips got
reset - things on unprotected outlets like alarm clocks and the laptop
I mentioned did not...

I know thesw things use MOVs which will eventually "blow" given enough
jolts but I was unaware that surge guards might interrupt power to the
device during a surge.

anyway, maybe someone can educate me a little!

thanks :-)
 
we had just had a storm here and all my computers that were hooked
into surge strips got reset ... is the cutting off of power to the
devices you are trying to protect part of the protection system in
action?
Click to expand...

What "surge strips"? Did you buy them at a grocery store? What
brand? What model?
 
Gav said:
hi all!

we had just had a storm here and all my computers that were hooked
into surge strips got reset at the same time during it.

The wierd thing is I also had a laptop running on a normal outlet and
it did NOT get reset - is the cutting off of power to the devices you
are trying to protect part of the protection system in action?
Click to expand...

Why would the laptop reset? Even when plugged in, it is running off of the
battery.
It just seems really odd that only the devices on surge strips got
reset - things on unprotected outlets like alarm clocks and the laptop
I mentioned did not...
Click to expand...

Do your alarm clocks have battery backup? Do they have capacitor
backup?(something most newer VCRs, etc have now to avoid the blinking clock
problem).
I know thesw things use MOVs which will eventually "blow" given enough
jolts but I was unaware that surge guards might interrupt power to the
device during a surge.
Click to expand...
VERY unlikely that the power was interrupted by the surge guards. You
experienced either a very deep voltage sag or a momentary interruption.
This reset everything without energy storage backup (like the laptop
battery).

Charles Perry P.E.
 
Why would the laptop reset? Even when plugged in, it is running off of the
battery.
Click to expand...
Power restored, but computers still down

After 45,000 customers in Washington County (Oregon) lost power, some
learned their PCs were damaged

Thursday, January 06, 2005

HILLSBORO -- The morning after a falling tree cut power to nearly
45,000 Washington County customers, residents and employees went to
work Wednesday replacing drained flashlight batteries and repairing
fried computers.

Portland General Electric officials said a 50-foot fir fell on two
power lines about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday. The toppled tree along Northwest
West Union Road west of Helvetia Road started a chain reaction of
failing power substations. Within minutes, a temporary blackout
blanketed North Plains, Banks, Cornelius and Hillsboro.

Repair crews restored service to about 25,000 residents and business
owners after two hours and to the rest by Wednesday morning.

"It went fairly quickly," said Vickie Rocker, a PGE spokeswoman.
While the blackout left some residents wondering who won the Orange
Bowl and others shivering for a few hours without heat, it caused few
serious problems, according to Hillsboro Fire & Rescue.
But several computer repair businesses were hit Wednesday with dozens
of calls to help small-business owners and homeowners reboot their
machines.

"It's been pretty busy all day," said Scott Pilcher, vice president of
Compatible Computers. "Problems can also come up weeks or months
later. If it didn't fail that day, it's possible that it could fail in
the next couple days. . . . It can have a cascading effect on a
computer system."

Pilcher said his company, which serves customers in western Washington
County and other areas, spent the day assisting small offices and
manufacturers, along with homeowners hoping to access the Internet.

Problems ranged from ruined hardware to data corruption and hard drive
failures.

Most problems occurred as a surge of energy passed through when the
power was restored, said Ed Manivanh, co-owner of Compuchips Etc. in
Hillsboro.

"You should unplug your computer during an outage," said Manivanh, who
spent a busy Wednesday fixing zapped computers from Banks, Cornelius
and Hillsboro.


PGE officials recommend that people buy surge protectors to guard
computers, televisions and other appliances during power failures. If
the surge protector fails during a blackout, it should be replaced
with a new one, Manivanh said.
 
Gav said:
hi all!

we had just had a storm here and all my computers that were hooked
into surge strips got reset at the same time during it.

The wierd thing is I also had a laptop running on a normal outlet and
it did NOT get reset - is the cutting off of power to the devices you
are trying to protect part of the protection system in action?

It just seems really odd that only the devices on surge strips got
reset - things on unprotected outlets like alarm clocks and the laptop
I mentioned did not...
Click to expand...

It's not possible to know what really happened on the AC lines without
having a power monitor on it but your described results are not at all
surprising. All the devices that stayed on have something else in common
other than being on unprotected outlets; they have a built in 'UPS',
battery in the notebook and battery or capacitor hold up in the alarm
clocks, whereas the computer systems on the protected outlets do not.

And it doesn't take anything so dramatic as a lightning storm to do it.
Just go to the main breaker, flip it off for a second then back on, and
you'll get the same result. And that may very well be what the lightning
storm did, except to a power co. feed breaker. They automatically re-close
after a fault so if lightning caused one to trip it would drop power
briefly and then back on.
I know thesw things use MOVs which will eventually "blow" given enough
jolts but I was unaware that surge guards might interrupt power to the
device during a surge.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the MOVs that caused the interruption. The lightning did. It
either tripped a breaker or it was on the power lines to the devices and
'lightning' isn't 'A.C.', and by that I mean it's not the 'A.C.' that the
power supplies expect for proper operation.

Surge protectors protect the device from being damaged. They don't 'keep it
running'.
 
doh! yep very good point about the laptop using the battery - well it
was 4am when I posted, sorry for not thinking too clearly :-)

anyway, these were belkin surgemaster protectors (gold, i.e. expensive
version, though I am not sure how much difference that makes).

Well everything seems to have survived so I guess they worked to some
extent...
 
Most problems occurred as a surge of energy passed through when the
power was restored, said Ed Manivanh, co-owner of Compuchips Etc. in
Hillsboro.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Oh, I can't breathe.

Wrong. Likely, the damaged occured when the fault (tree) happened. It is
not uncommon to have a line to ground fault in a distribution system result
in an overvoltage on one, or both, of the two phases that are NOT faulted.
There is no "surge of power" when the power is restored. Sorry.

Charles Perry P.E.
 
Gav said:
hi all!

we had just had a storm here and all my computers that were hooked
into surge strips got reset at the same time during it.

The wierd thing is I also had a laptop running on a normal outlet and
it did NOT get reset - is the cutting off of power to the devices you
are trying to protect part of the protection system in action?

It just seems really odd that only the devices on surge strips got
reset - things on unprotected outlets like alarm clocks and the laptop
I mentioned did not...

I know thesw things use MOVs which will eventually "blow" given enough
jolts but I was unaware that surge guards might interrupt power to the
device during a surge.

anyway, maybe someone can educate me a little!

thanks :-)
Click to expand...

Brownouts kill more hard drives than blackouts. All my systems are
connected to APC UPSes to prevent both surge and power fluctuation damage.

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. To jump to the end
of the story, as a result of this I need a bone marrow transplant. Many
people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 
Good job of seeing through the fog.
doh! yep very good point about the laptop using the battery - well
it was 4am when I posted, sorry for not thinking too clearly :-)
Click to expand...

And 3:24PM on Aug 18 2004.
anyway, these were belkin surgemaster protectors (gold, i.e.
expensive version, though I am not sure how much difference that
makes).
Click to expand...

It doesn't since the surge suppressor was not the cause.
Well everything seems to have survived so I guess they worked to
some extent...
Click to expand...

If you want something that works to any extent during a brownout or
blackout, you need a line conditioner or battery backup (also known
as an Uninterruptible Power Supply or UPS).
 
You could say Belkin protectors worked because,
fortunately, they did nothing. How good are those Belkin
products (and what model number)? Start with numbers. How
many joules? Is it at least 3000?

Dirty little secret. Effective protectors cost about $1 per
protected appliance AND protect from the typically destructive
type of surge. Those plug-in Belkin quietly prefer you to
assume all surges are same. Paint it with some gold, and more
assumptions will be made. Again. How many joules? And what
is the let-through voltage? And how much did each cost?
 
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