Protecting an Xp laptop from power surge/spike in a motorhome.

[Spikey]

The motorhome has a "smart" electric system which supplys 12v and 240 mains
to various outlets from an external source (mains). I'm assuming its more
at risk of spikes or surges but for the life of me I cant find any info even
with the boating fraternity who usually have a similar set up. I dont
normally bother but we are going to be full timing it for a while and so the
laptop contents are more critical.

So will the normal surge connector I use at home be sufficient to protect it
or do I need something else/different?

And if the power is supplied by generator does that make any difference? Or
with an inverter?

I'm assuming with 2 full batteries in the laptop I dont need UPS?

)

 

[Lil' Dave]

The motorhome has a "smart" electric system which supplys 12v and 240
mains to various outlets from an external source (mains). I'm assuming
its more at risk of spikes or surges but for the life of me I cant find
any info even with the boating fraternity who usually have a similar set
up. I dont normally bother but we are going to be full timing it for a
while and so the laptop contents are more critical.

So will the normal surge connector I use at home be sufficient to protect
it or do I need something else/different?

Yes, but not as effectively. Like a Navy ship electrical system, you have
floating ground (no pun intended).

And if the power is supplied by generator does that make any difference?
Or with an inverter?

Nope. Only better if connected to an external power source with earth
ground connection.

I'm assuming with 2 full batteries in the laptop I dont need UPS?

Incorrect. The power supply that changes 110/120 AC to direct current to
supply the batteries is subject to surges and power loss fluctuations. Lose
that, and your batteries can't be recharged, and you can't run without
batteries as the power supply is kaput.

Dave

 

[Spikey]

Nope. Only better if connected to an external power source with earth
ground connection.


Incorrect. The power supply that changes 110/120 AC to direct current to
supply the batteries is subject to surges and power loss fluctuations.
Lose that, and your batteries can't be recharged, and you can't run
without batteries as the power supply is kaput.

So a small UPS might be useful then? I just added a 2nd battery but now
thinking I should have got ups instead.

Is there a better option to the surge plug or something else to protect it
as well - I have the masterplug intelligent switching one?

What would be the worst case scenario from a power spike or earth leakage.
Blown psu and wiped bios?

Thanks for replying. I'm just trying to cover every angle as its too late
once its happened. At the moment everythings backed up to disc and images on
each others laptop/pcs. I'm going to leave backup copies with my eldest so
if push comes to shove I can upload from his server. Normally I just back up
the desktop, shove a copy in the fire safe and one with me. Theres usually
nothing critical on the laptop but this time it will have to have everthing.

)

 

[Poprivet]

The motorhome has a "smart" electric system which supplys 12v and 240
mains to various outlets from an external source (mains). I'm
assuming its more at risk of spikes or surges but for the life of me
I cant find any info even with the boating fraternity who usually
have a similar set up. I dont normally bother but we are going to be
full timing it for a while and so the laptop contents are more
critical.
So will the normal surge connector I use at home be sufficient to
protect it or do I need something else/different?

No, it won't. You really should invest in a good UPS (Uninterruptable Power
Supply) and it should include Line Conditioning. They aren't real expensive
and APC makes the ones I use here at home.

And if the power is supplied by generator does that make any
difference? Or with an inverter?

YES! W/r to operating the computer: It makes a definite difference! Unless
you know that the generator is guaranteed to duplicate the specs of the
power grid, you want to watch out.
Most generators don't put out a perfectly sinusoidal power wave.
Inverters in particular often put out a square wave which is capacitively
filtered and only approximates the needed sine wave; and not very
inefficiently I might add.
Either is subject to power surges, momentary over/under voltages due to
load changes, external induction and normal operations. These are the
important things a UPS will do for you. A UPS with line conditioning will
also keep the waveform within specs and definitely will prolong the life of
the computer. For a laptop you're only looking at about $150 for a good
UPS. Check the laptop; if it uses, say, 80W, then a 150W UPS will suffice
of even a 100W but not nearly as reliably, especially if you add any
perhipherals to it.

As for charging batteries, FINE: No problem. Battery chargers will work
find on those instruments.

I'm assuming with 2 full batteries in the laptop I dont need UPS?

You still need a UPS is you want to plug the laptop into the line power.
Normally, the computer power system is disconnected from the batteries when
it's plugged into the line. The batteries only connect when you remove the
line power. But, the ARE charging at all times, so IF you decide to charge
the batteries IN the laptop, without a UPS, keep the computer itself OFF.

I have two batteries for mine too, and I run the laptop with one while the
other is connected to the brick, charging. When it shows low on power, I
switch batteries. I get about 4 hours per battery on my laptop, give or
take, depending on what I'm doing and the age of the batteries.
All of this assumes that you have a ground system too, right? The "Earth"
ground wire (3rd wire, bare or green insulated) of a gen power system should
return to the chassis of the generator, which in turn should be grounded
itself, but your equipment won't care as long as it connects back to the
genset; all will still operate correctly for your system.

HTH
Pop`

 

[Spikey]

No, it won't. You really should invest in a good UPS (Uninterruptable
Power Supply) and it should include Line Conditioning. They aren't real
expensive and APC makes the ones I use here at home.

Thank you for your informative reply. Just going to check out APC.

)

 

[smlunatick]

Thank you for your informative reply. Just going to check out APC.

)

APC does not make an affordable UPS that is rated for use with e
generator. They only "seem" to have it in their higher 30K models.
(Over-kill.)

Both Powerware and Tripp Lite offer "on-line" UPS. This style of UPS
always maintain a charge on their batteries and the PCs are powered
off the batteries. Generators do not provide a "pure" sine wave power
cycle. You get over voltages (power surges) and under voltages (brown-
outs.) Because of this power problems, most regular UPS (APC Bach-UPS
and Smart-UPS) are constantly switching back/forth on the battery and
will "burn out" faster than normal.

 

[Spikey]

Both Powerware and Tripp Lite offer "on-line" UPS. This style of UPS
always maintain a charge on their batteries and the PCs are powered
off the batteries. Generators do not provide a "pure" sine wave power
cycle. You get over voltages (power surges) and under voltages (brown-
outs.) Because of this power problems, most regular UPS (APC Bach-UPS
and Smart-UPS) are constantly switching back/forth on the battery and
will "burn out" faster than normal.

Looks good but both are way out of my league financially, might be cheaper
to buy a spare laptop.lol.. Size of equipment is also an issue as we have
to keep the weight down.

)

 

[smlunatick]

Looks good but both are way out of my league financially, might be cheaper
to buy a spare laptop.lol.. Size of equipment is also an issue as we have
to keep the weight down.

)

Consider a DC power inverter, if the laptop does come with a car-
lighter plug. This inverter should convert 12-vots DC current to AC,
thus allowing the battery to be charged constantly.

 

[w_tom]

Looks good but both are way out of my league financially, might be cheaper
to buy a spare laptop.lol.. Size of equipment is also an issue as we have
to keep the weight down.

Most replies have assumed all electrical problems are same and that
all power conditioners address all problems.

First is a problem called 'load dump'. An inverter must make that
problem irrelevant. Second are transients created by the inverter.
It's numeric specs should define how significant are those transients
and existance of other electrical problems.

Finally, a laptop already has protection so significant that
transients from a UPS, sufficient to damage some small electric
motors, are made complete irrelevant to the laptop. (so where is that
UPS line conditioning?) Were replies based on numbers - why UPSes
can output some of the 'dirtiest' electricity? Or should we just
assume all electrical problems are similar? Typical plug-in UPS only
does battery backup - protect from data loss. It's a laptop. Laptop
already does everything the typical computer grade UPS does - and
without creating voltage spikes when AC power is lost.

Specs from the inverter are essential. For example, some inverters
can be so bad as to degrade a power strip or UPS protector circuit in
days or weeks. Degrade and yet the protector still looks like it is
fully functional. Without those numbers, then no poster could do
anything but wildly speculate. Just another reason to reassess the
integrity of so many replies.

Provided is a summary of numbers that every poster needed before a
useful reply was possible. Many simply hear and therefore have
repeated urban myths rather than first learn some electrical
principles - such as numbers in manufacturer specifications.

Meanwhile start at the beginning. What does that inverter
manufacturer say about 'load dump'? Does the inverter claim to make
load dump irrelevant? (Probably yes).

 

[Spikey]

Meanwhile start at the beginning. What does that inverter
manufacturer say about 'load dump'? Does the inverter claim to make
load dump irrelevant? (Probably yes).

Ok, will dig it out in the morning and read the small print. Would do it
tonight but working so it will have to wait.

)