SSD freezes from time to time

[Yousuf Khan]

Okay, so I've installed my SSD as my boot disk. It's working
fantastically for the most part, but every now and again, I see the
C-drive just become 100% busy, and which in turns prevents other things
from functioning on the computer. The 100% busy periods don't last for
more than 10 seconds, and then it drops off immediately to 0% again.

I've tuned the SSD as well as possible according to the optimization
guides. I've turned off the disk indexing, I've moved the swapfile to
another disk, disk defragging is disabled for that drive, and I've
turned off prefetching, and system restore points. The only things I
haven't moved off of it are some of the high disk activity programs like
Thunderbird or Firefox, and that's because I'd actually like to have
those apps speeded up by the SSD, so I don't want to move them.

I have Resource Monitor loaded and I see that the Disk Activity goes
upto 100%, but the actual disk queue remains around 0.0, so it doesn't
seem like any particular application is actually creating the disk
activity, so I assume it must be the OS itself doing something.

Any ideas what else might need to be turned off?

Yousuf Khan

 

[Rob]

Okay, so I've installed my SSD as my boot disk. It's working
fantastically for the most part, but every now and again, I see the
C-drive just become 100% busy, and which in turns prevents other things
from functioning on the computer. The 100% busy periods don't last for
more than 10 seconds, and then it drops off immediately to 0% again.

I've tuned the SSD as well as possible according to the optimization
guides. I've turned off the disk indexing, I've moved the swapfile to
another disk, disk defragging is disabled for that drive, and I've
turned off prefetching, and system restore points. The only things I
haven't moved off of it are some of the high disk activity programs like
Thunderbird or Firefox, and that's because I'd actually like to have
those apps speeded up by the SSD, so I don't want to move them.

I have Resource Monitor loaded and I see that the Disk Activity goes
upto 100%, but the actual disk queue remains around 0.0, so it doesn't
seem like any particular application is actually creating the disk
activity, so I assume it must be the OS itself doing something.

Any ideas what else might need to be turned off?

Yousuf Khan

Check that your SSD doesn't need a firmware update.
Otherwise, this is going to be difficult to track down and you
might want to look at Process Explorer (now owned by ms) or
similar tools.
HTH

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Check that your SSD doesn't need a firmware update.
Otherwise, this is going to be difficult to track down and you
might want to look at Process Explorer (now owned by ms) or
similar tools.
HTH

Yeah, I checked that at the beginning before installing the os, it was
already at the newest rev.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I'd simply return it. Out of the 10 I purchased one was returned to
Amazon and a new one arrived in a few days no charge. They even paid
for the shipping to RTM the original. Have you consulted the SSD maker
Forum?

No, that's an idea though.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Paul]

Well, I did go to the forums, and then eventually I did exchange it. The
Corsair forums are full of threads about this freezing problem, lots of
theories about how to fix it (upgrade the firmware, turn off services,
etc.). First of all, exchanging the drive didn't help at all. The second
drive had exactly the same problem.

Eventually, I discovered that the problem lay with the AHCI vs. IDE
drivers. Specifically, the AHCI drivers were the problem. I switched
back over to IDE mode in the BIOS, and the problems went away. One
reason I had it on the AHCI drivers was because I thought TRIM was only
supported through AHCI, but it turned out that TRIM works in IDE too. So
there's no reason to stick with AHCI at this point.

Yousuf Khan

There is a claim here, that you can use ProcMon to verify TRIM is
being sent. There is also an fsutil variable, indicating whether
it's enabled or not. I'd really be surprised if IDE supported it,
as the IDE drivers include crusty old drivers from 2002 or so that
don't know a thing about TRIM. I'd want some evidence it is really
being sent. They suggest emptying the trash bin as a potential trigger event.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?66696-New-FW-Flashing

Paul

 

[YKhan]

There is a claim here, that you can use ProcMon to verify TRIM is
being sent. There is also an fsutil variable, indicating whether
it's enabled or not. I'd really be surprised if IDE supported it,
as the IDE drivers include crusty old drivers from 2002 or so that
don't know a thing about TRIM. I'd want some evidence it is really
being sent. They suggest emptying the trash bin as a potential trigger event.

The IDE drivers in XP might be the crusty old ones from 2002, but
Windows 7 didn't even come out till 2009, so it has much newer IDE
drivers. TRIM support didn't even appear until Win 7, so I'd be
inclined to agree that the 2002 XP drivers wouldn't know anything
about TRIM, but this is a new set of drivers, which are aware of SSD's
and TRIM.

Anyways, I'm not using Procmon, I'm using a utility called Hard Disk
Sentinel, which can monitor this sort of thing, and it confirms that
TRIM support is enabled. And I'm also using the fsutil command-line
utility that also confirms it. You can see how to use the "fsutil"
commands here: http://is.gd/rfYxxO.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?66696-New-FW-F...

I don't really see what you're referring to in this website.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Paul]

I don't really see what you're referring to in this website.

Yousuf Khan

"Part 3 – In Depth Monitoring of SSD Metrics

TRIM

Tracking ATA TRIM in Win 7 using Procmon:"

The idea is to see if a TRIM command of some sort,
is actually being sent when you empty the trash.

The advice in the past has always been, that TRIM
support existed in AHCI (like the MSAHCI driver)
but that it didn't exist in the IDE driver. That's
why I'm skeptical, that your discovery goes against
past advice. It would be reassuring to see something
like actual trace data from ProcMon, as a double check.

HTH,
Paul

 

[YKhan]

"Part 3 – In Depth Monitoring of SSD Metrics

 TRIM

 Tracking ATA TRIM in Win 7 using Procmon:"

The idea is to see if a TRIM command of some sort,
is actually being sent when you empty the trash.

The advice in the past has always been, that TRIM
support existed in AHCI (like the MSAHCI driver)
but that it didn't exist in the IDE driver. That's
why I'm skeptical, that your discovery goes against
past advice. It would be reassuring to see something
like actual trace data from ProcMon, as a double check.

It's too much work to try and make sense of all of that data coming
out of Procmon. The fact of the matter is that the fsutil command
provided by Microsoft lets you change it on both the AHCI driver and
the IDE driver. If the flag wasn't supported on the IDE driver, then
it wouldn't allow you to change it, it would always send back
"disabled" when you query it.

And it's confirmed to be enabled and in use by a 3rd party util, Hard
Disk Sentinel. I've been using HDS for years to monitor the SMART
health of my hard drives, and when I first installed the SSD, it
immediately figured out that it was an SSD because it had special
SMART parameters that aren't available in HHD's.

http://www.hdsentinel.com/

 

[Paul]

It's too much work to try and make sense of all of that data coming
out of Procmon. The fact of the matter is that the fsutil command
provided by Microsoft lets you change it on both the AHCI driver and
the IDE driver. If the flag wasn't supported on the IDE driver, then
it wouldn't allow you to change it, it would always send back
"disabled" when you query it.

And it's confirmed to be enabled and in use by a 3rd party util, Hard
Disk Sentinel. I've been using HDS for years to monitor the SMART
health of my hard drives, and when I first installed the SSD, it
immediately figured out that it was an SSD because it had special
SMART parameters that aren't available in HHD's.

http://www.hdsentinel.com/

OK, I can see a mention of the IDE driver having TRIM here.
For Windows 7, and the built-in (MS) IDE driver.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2829/15

(found the ref on this page, to that Anandtech link)

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1475177

Paul

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, I did go to the forums, and then eventually I did exchange it. The
Corsair forums are full of threads about this freezing problem, lots of
theories about how to fix it (upgrade the firmware, turn off services,
etc.). First of all, exchanging the drive didn't help at all. The second
drive had exactly the same problem.

Eventually, I discovered that the problem lay with the AHCI vs. IDE
drivers. Specifically, the AHCI drivers were the problem. I switched
back over to IDE mode in the BIOS, and the problems went away. One
reason I had it on the AHCI drivers was because I thought TRIM was only
supported through AHCI, but it turned out that TRIM works in IDE too. So
there's no reason to stick with AHCI at this point.

Argh! It's sounding more and more like my longstanding mystery is the
same problem. I need the AHCI for RAID on the spinning storage,
though!

 

[Paul]

Argh! It's sounding more and more like my longstanding mystery is the
same problem. I need the AHCI for RAID on the spinning storage,
though!

Could you use a separate controller ?

*******

The problem with shopping for a separate controller, is finding a chip that
doesn't have issues. There is an example here, of one based on a Marvell 9128.
I could also find some cards with Asmedia chips on them, but I don't know right
off hand, whether they have all the drivers needed to do everything you need.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158207

http://ca.startech.com/Cards-Adapte...bps-PCI-Express-SATA-Controller-Card~PEXSAT32

Some of the cards, will have AHCI drivers as the default choice. And then
you need to verify in advance, you can get the driver flavor you need.

That particular card has a PCI Express x1 Rev.2 interface, so cannot transfer
data faster than 500MB/sec (minus whatever overhead is typical for such things).
It has the same kind of problem a SIL3132 would have, in terms of the match
between what is on the SATA side, versus what is on the PCI Express side.

The issue would be, if the thing supported something like RAID 0, and you
tried to pass 2 x SATA III rates through a 500MB/sec bottleneck. For
single standalone drives connected to the SATA ports, it's not going
to be nearly as much of a practical issue. (The PCI Express bus has
separate TX and RX bus, and copying from drive to drive for example,
uses separate buses at the instant the transfer happens. It's just RAID 0
configurations you have to watch, because it all goes through the RX or
all goes through the TX path.)

Some of those peripheral chips, have had a checkered history, in terms of
the grief they caused with early drivers. Which is why shopping for one
of those little cards, is not a trivial exercise.

In the past, the problem with early SATA cards, was the need to flash the
firmware, to change how the card behaves. It's possible there is still
a need to change the BIOS add-on module stored in the flash chip onboard,
to get the driver you want to work with them. What is stored in the flash
chip, is an Extended INT 0x13 routine, to enable the motherboard BIOS
to read boot info during POST and boot. But in some cases, the chip
configuration may be programmed with that code too (like, a bit that
says it is a RAID chip or is an IDE chip etc).

Paul

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Argh! It's sounding more and more like my longstanding mystery is the
same problem. I need the AHCI for RAID on the spinning storage,
though!

Let me guess, you're using the Intel drivers, right?

Yousuf Khan

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Let me guess, you're using the Intel drivers, right?

Yousuf Khan

Yup. There isn't another option, is there?

I tried flashing the drive, the ver2 to ver6 flash worked but the ver6
to ver7 is saying there's nothing for it to do.

 

[YKhan]

Yup.  There isn't another option, is there?

I tried flashing the drive, the ver2 to ver6 flash worked but the ver6
to ver7 is saying there's nothing for it to do.

Well, actually there is, why not use Microsoft's software RAID instead
of the Intel one? That way you can go back to standard Microsoft
drivers. The Microsoft drivers are standardized and they can even work
within Linux if you like. The Intel ones, are hit and miss.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, actually there is, why not use Microsoft's software RAID instead
of the Intel one? That way you can go back to standard Microsoft
drivers. The Microsoft drivers are standardized and they can even work
within Linux if you like. The Intel ones, are hit and miss.

Yousuf Khan

What driver are you talking about? How do I get RAID 1 out of some
spinning drives on the Intel controller that's on my motherboard?

 

[Yousuf Khan]

What driver are you talking about? How do I get RAID 1 out of some
spinning drives on the Intel controller that's on my motherboard?

Sorry, I shouldn't have said driver when talking about the RAID
functionality. Microsoft's Disk Management has everything from simple
concatenation to RAID5 available, if you're using Windows 7 Ultimate or
Professional.

Also you should know that Intel's RAID is not something comes from its
controller, it is really a software RAID too. Microsoft's software RAID
is more compatible with more things.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said driver when talking about the RAID
functionality. Microsoft's Disk Management has everything from simple
concatenation to RAID5 available, if you're using Windows 7 Ultimate or
Professional.

Also you should know that Intel's RAID is not something comes from its
controller, it is really a software RAID too. Microsoft's software RAID
is more compatible with more things.

Any way to migrate?

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Any way to migrate?

Not without backing up and restoring, that I can think of.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

OK, I can see a mention of the IDE driver having TRIM here.
For Windows 7, and the built-in (MS) IDE driver.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2829/15

(found the ref on this page, to that Anandtech link)

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1475177

Paul

Hold the presses! The actual reason for the problem has been pinpointed
inside the AHCI drivers now. The problem lay in an obscure power
management feature in the AHCI drivers that don't exist in the IDE
drivers, called the HIPM/DIPM attributes. HIPM means Host-Initiated
Power Management, while DIPM is Device-Initiated ... etc. Since the IDE
driver doesn't touch these features, it doesn't have any problem with
them. To avoid the problem you need to disable these completely on the
AHCI drivers.

You need to set a key in the Registry to allow this feature to be
accessed by the Power Management advanced options. You need to go to the
following registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\0012ee47-9041-4b5d-9b77-535fba8b1442\0b2d69d7-a2a1-449c-9680-f91c70521c60

And set the "Attributes" field to a DWORD of 0x2.

You can then follow this article on what to do to disable it:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/177819-ahci-link-power-management-enable-hipm-dipm.html

I followed the article, and switched back to the AHCI drivers, and no
longer had any freeze-up problems.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Paul]

Hold the presses! The actual reason for the problem has been pinpointed
inside the AHCI drivers now. The problem lay in an obscure power
management feature in the AHCI drivers that don't exist in the IDE
drivers, called the HIPM/DIPM attributes. HIPM means Host-Initiated
Power Management, while DIPM is Device-Initiated ... etc. Since the IDE
driver doesn't touch these features, it doesn't have any problem with
them. To avoid the problem you need to disable these completely on the
AHCI drivers.

You need to set a key in the Registry to allow this feature to be
accessed by the Power Management advanced options. You need to go to the
following registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\0012ee47-9041-4b5d-9b77-535fba8b1442\0b2d69d7-a2a1-449c-9680-f91c70521c60


And set the "Attributes" field to a DWORD of 0x2.

You can then follow this article on what to do to disable it:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/177819-ahci-link-power-management-enable-hipm-dipm.html


I followed the article, and switched back to the AHCI drivers, and no
longer had any freeze-up problems.

Yousuf Khan

That reminds me of "LPM", which was an issue at one time.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...AHCI-mode-on-Intel-6-series-Chipset-platforms

I suppose the thinking goes, "where would the fun be if
you didn't have to tweak something". :-(

You'd think the SSD manufacturers, could come up with an "SSD ready"
software, to pre-check these things for you. Instead of this week long
"search the web for hints" thing the customers have to do now. That
way, they could encapsulate all they've learned about their product
versus Windows or Linux.

Paul