SP2 drove me to open source

[Guest]

Thanks to Microsoft's WindowsXP SP2, I have finally made the move to open
source applications. I've wanted to make the move for some time but some
laziness on my part has delayed me. Thanks, Billy, for pushing out the SP2
and specifically the security center because that horrid piece of programming
(I call SP2 the new WinME) finally made me so angry and frustrated with you
and your company that I built up a Linux box at home and will soon be
migrating all of my personal equipment over to the Penguin. If I am browsing
and come across some content that will only work in your non-W3c standards
compliant browser, I refuse to view it. DId you notice that FireFox 1.0 was
downloaded over a million times the first DAY it was available? Hallelujiah!


I am the systems administrator at a television station and so am used to
dealing with new technology. I have never had as many problems with a single
piece of software (and let me tell you, video-editing, TV production, and
graphics software can be extremely touchy and hard to work with) as I have
with SP2. It has bolluxed up so many systems at my station, rendering some
applications totally unusable, that I have removed it from every machine I
have. I've talked to the administration and we are looking into moving away
from all MS products and following the growing trend of dismantling our
Windows infrastructure.

I truly hope that the recent trend in computing to move away from the
monopolistic domination of MS is but the first scratchings of the proverbial
writing on the wall that will soon say that MS is on its way out. Maybe it
won't come soon, certainly not soon enough for any thinking and rational IT
person, but I think it is coming and on that day I will rejoice.

Thanks, again, Billy. SP2 did it's job well enough for me.

 

[Testy]

Thanks to Microsoft's WindowsXP SP2, I have finally made the move to open
source applications. I've wanted to make the move for some time but some
laziness on my part has delayed me. Thanks, Billy, for pushing out the SP2
and specifically the security center because that horrid piece of programming
(I call SP2 the new WinME) finally made me so angry and frustrated with you
and your company that I built up a Linux box at home and will soon be
migrating all of my personal equipment over to the Penguin. If I am browsing
and come across some content that will only work in your non-W3c standards
compliant browser, I refuse to view it. DId you notice that FireFox 1.0 was
downloaded over a million times the first DAY it was available? Hallelujiah!


I truly hope that the recent trend in computing to move away from the
monopolistic domination of MS is but the first scratchings of the proverbial
writing on the wall that will soon say that MS is on its way out. Maybe it
won't come soon, certainly not soon enough for any thinking and rational IT
person, but I think it is coming and on that day I will rejoice.

Thanks, again, Billy. SP2 did it's job well enough for me.

AMEN! Brother. I made the switch a couple of months ago. I will NEVER look
back.

Testy

 

[Usingthis]

AMEN! Brother. I made the switch a couple of months ago. I will NEVER look
back.

Testy

Then why are either of you in this Microsoft newsgroup?

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

You have to wonder..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[spodosaurus]

You have to wonder..

He may have to support XP on his home network or for clients. I know
that is a familiar scenario.

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[Testy]

He may have to support XP on his home network or for clients. I know
that is a familiar scenario.

EXACTLY! Work involves Windows, my PERSONAL choice is LINUX.

Testy

 

[Testy]

You have to wonder..

That's the problem with MS NO IMAGINATION and can't see beyong their nose.

Testy

 

[Leythos]

ANd what better place for an anti-MS rant than on an MS sponsored board?
If I go to a Linux board I would be preaching to the choir, would I
not? What sense is there in ranting to peeps that already agree with
you? lol.....silly MS peeps.

No one really minds a rant about anything MS as long as you back it up
with details so that people can understand the problem - to just state the
SP2 screwed up everything so you went to Linux just looks like a trolling,
even if it isn't.

The fact that you had problems is well worth discussing, as other will
learn from your solutions, but it's all in the details. If you had posted
the products that you were having problems with we might have been able to
assist before you went to production.

 

[Guest]

:

He may have to support XP on his home network or for clients. I know
that is a familiar scenario.

Of course I do. This is obvious in the following quote from my original
post-

"It has bolluxed up so many systems at my station, rendering some
applications totally unusable, that I have removed it from every machine I
have. I've talked to the administration and we are looking into moving away
from all MS products and following the growing trend of dismantling our
Windows infrastructure. "

My workplace is all Windows save for some of our graphics systems (Macs) and
the boxes that have to do the most processing for weather forecasting and
modeling (Red Hat). This was all before my time but I am hoping to bring in
a lot more Penguin boxes in the near future.

ANd what better place for an anti-MS rant than on an MS sponsored board? If
I go to a Linux board I would be preaching to the choir, would I not? What
sense is there in ranting to peeps that already agree with you?
lol.....silly MS peeps.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

spod

His words.. "and specifically the security center because that horrid piece
of programming (I call SP2 the new WinME) finally made me so angry and
frustrated with you and your company that I built up a Linux box at home and
will soon be migrating all of my personal equipment over to the Penguin."

He only had to ask..

"If I am browsing and come across some content that will only work in your
non-W3c standards compliant browser, I refuse to view it."

His loss..

"I am the systems administrator at a television station and so am used to
dealing with new technology. I have never had as many problems with a
single
piece of software (and let me tell you, video-editing, TV production, and
graphics software can be extremely touchy and hard to work with) as I have
with SP2. It has bolluxed up so many systems at my station, rendering some
applications totally unusable, that I have removed it from every machine I
have. I've talked to the administration and we are looking into moving away
from all MS products and following the growing trend of dismantling our
Windows infrastructure."

Lets hope that the learning curve that he is about to negotiate won't put
his TV Station off the air.. the bosses may not appreciate that.. I am not
suggesting that an X86 ported UNIX OS doesn't have a place in computing..

"I truly hope that the recent trend in computing to move away from the
monopolistic domination of MS is but the first scratchings of the proverbial
writing on the wall that will soon say that MS is on its way out. Maybe it
won't come soon, certainly not soon enough for any thinking and rational IT
person, but I think it is coming and on that day I will rejoice."

Not nice.. this is almost wishing that we all have problems with Windows,
and that Windows is a bad thing.. he has much to learn, and it's going to
hit him in one big heap if and when his company changes to Linux..

"Thanks, again, Billy. SP2 did it's job well enough for me."

This is not a hot line directly to Bill Gates..

This guy is a system administrator (allegedly)..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Charles Blair]

I have worked at 5 different companies in my years of IT ranging from just a
dozen workstations to almost 1000.

I have gone through 6 NT4.0 service packs, 4 2000 service packs, and 2 XP
service packs.

And never once have I run into the problems you described in this thread.

I will admit that there have been very infrequent times where an application
is not compatible with a newer service pack

But if you do your research and testing correctly, then just don't apply the
service pack until the application vendor gets caught up.

If the vendor is too slow, or refuses to upgrade their product, then you
find a different vendor that will.

I don't think your problem is with MS products and if you proceed to Linux
you will probably run into the same situations.

The philosophy behind running any network (MS or Novell or Linux ... etc.)
is that the infrastructure drives the applications, not the other way
around.

In laymen's terms: When the tires are bald on the car, you buy new tires
.... not a new car.

The sooner a Systems Administrator learns this, the sooner he/she will have
a stable network

Good luck with Linux ... you will need it.

Charles

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Testy

I worked for a company that used UNIX, Linux and Windows.. each OS had its
place.. no argument there..

BUT WHY do LINUX converts feel the need to rant here.. if you want t change
to Linux, do it, but do it quietly.. we don't care what you use as long as
you are happy..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Guest]

Thanks to Microsoft's WindowsXP SP2, I have finally made the move to open
source applications. I've wanted to make the move for some time but some
laziness on my part has delayed me. Thanks, Billy, for pushing out the SP2
and specifically the security center because that horrid piece of programming
(I call SP2 the new WinME) finally made me so angry and frustrated with you
and your company that I built up a Linux box at home and will soon be
migrating all of my personal equipment over to the Penguin. If I am browsing
and come across some content that will only work in your non-W3c standards
compliant browser, I refuse to view it. DId you notice that FireFox 1.0 was
downloaded over a million times the first DAY it was available? Hallelujiah!


I am the systems administrator at a television station and so am used to
dealing with new technology. I have never had as many problems with a single
piece of software (and let me tell you, video-editing, TV production, and
graphics software can be extremely touchy and hard to work with) as I have
with SP2. It has bolluxed up so many systems at my station, rendering some
applications totally unusable, that I have removed it from every machine I
have. I've talked to the administration and we are looking into moving away
from all MS products and following the growing trend of dismantling our
Windows infrastructure.

I truly hope that the recent trend in computing to move away from the
monopolistic domination of MS is but the first scratchings of the proverbial
writing on the wall that will soon say that MS is on its way out. Maybe it
won't come soon, certainly not soon enough for any thinking and rational IT
person, but I think it is coming and on that day I will rejoice.

Thanks, again, Billy. SP2 did it's job well enough for me.

Have a nice trip, see ya later buh bye. If the penguin works for you and
you are happy with it, more power to ya. As someone else pointed out, if
proper testing is done it works out better than going whole hog the day the
SP comes out. Oh well, to each their own.

 

[Guest]

I can't imagine why so many people have a problem with SP2. I purchased the
full OEM version with SP2 a month ago and have no problems with my brand new
machine. Besides the top of the line Dell XPS for $3,000, it's the fastest
machine I've ever seen for one third of the cost of a Dell.

 

[Guest]

:

"If I am browsing and come across some content that will only work in your
non-W3c standards compliant browser, I refuse to view it."

His loss..

Not really. If I choose not to view it then I don't see it as a loss. This
is of course in my personal use, not at my workplace.

Lets hope that the learning curve that he is about to negotiate won't put
his TV Station off the air.. the bosses may not appreciate that.. I am not
suggesting that an X86 ported UNIX OS doesn't have a place in computing..

While I am sure you aren't truly worried if we went off the air the learning
curve, steep as it surely will be for myself and others, will be negotiated
properly. This is a project only in the seminal stages. It's been tossed
around by my predecessors in the past but the administration never got behind
it. After the recent SP2 debacle, they are talking to me about it. I don't
expect to have anything more than a test environment running within 9mo to a
year and actual migrations may take a lot longer. Ever try to train Windows
peeps to use something different? That is what scares me the most. This is
the problem and it was a problem with me- we get so used to something that
change becomes painful. Change, however, is inevitable and I think it's time
for a change, even a paradigm shift if you will.

Not nice.. this is almost wishing that we all have problems with Windows,
and that Windows is a bad thing.. he has much to learn, and it's going to
hit him in one big heap if and when his company changes to Linux..

Love your pedantic tone, it makes me giggle. I don't think you can assume
anything about how much I do or don't know about Linux and operating system
migration cost-analysis from the few, limited comments I have made here.
Even if you could, my post was not so much about the technical problems I had
it was about the tecnical problems finally winning me over to the open source
side. Do I expect that even if my station went completely to Linux in one
fell swoop that I would be able to sit back in my chair and relax all day?
Of course not. But I do read the literature and I see some big companies
making moves to open source, I see MS responding with advertising campaigns
because they are scared and are starting to feel a small hit in the
pocketboook, and I see that MS is not responsive to my needs. I also see the
attitude of MS as it is presented through its products.

There is no clearer example of that attitude than Internet Explorer. Billy
and his gang have thumbed their noses at the rest of the WWW by refusing to
bring IE into compliance with the W3C standards. When I build a website I
build it to W3C standards then I have to backtrack and make it usuable for
IE. It's the arrogance I hate. It's understandable given the market share
that MS/IE have, but it is no less offensive just because mose people use MS
products. Human history has shown that people, in general, aren't all that
bright so the fact that most people do something is in no way an indication
that that is in any way the right, best, or appropriate thing to do.

It's the same with SP2, especially with the Security Center if you want to
talk about end-user complications. Who the hell thought it was a good idea
to have Windows firewall turned on by default? For a home user who has no
common sense, perhaps it's ok to assume that this is a good idea but WinXP
has huge saturation in the business world and there it is NOT a good idea.
That bloody firewall has to be turned off with Admin priveleges and FUBARed
so many of my applications I probably couldn't list them all off the top of
my head. Did MS not take that this thing might affect business applications
into account? Yes, it's a small example and easily fixed, if not quickly
when you are talking 300 workstations and group policy through AD won't even
shut the bloody thing down, but it's a great example of MS not knowing who
their end user is. Isn't it better to let people choose? Isn't it better to
give them the power to turn it on or not? Give them the information but leave
the final choice to the user.

In the end, it's about choice. I see MS limiting my choices and so I will
move myself, and my company if I can, to a different way of doing things. We
will, and have, consulted with experts, gotten second opinions and are
searching for more, and hoepfully the suits will find it an advantageous way
to go.

This is not a hot line directly to Bill Gates..

NO WAY!!! REALLY?!?!?!?

And here I thought my sarcasm was so blatant that a child would read it in
my post......

The only direct line to Billie Bob Gates anymore is the bottom line of the
quarterly financial statement. Maybe, possibly, perhaps at one time Billie
was about the software and the bringing about the revolution he most
certainly had a big hand in but for many years it's become about MS and
making MS bigger better and badder than anyone and at the expense of anyone
and anything that gets in the way of that goal. There is a reason why US and
European courts are finding MS guilty of monopolistic practices. Anyone who
stifles opposing viewpoints is evil.

I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend with my life
your right to say it. Famous words that have been all but forgotten by some
people.

Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

MVP- and you aren't biased? Your whole career is probably based on Bill
Gates' stuff so of course you defend him.

This is so much fun, lol

 

[Leythos]

In the end, it's about choice. I see MS limiting my choices and so I will
move myself, and my company if I can, to a different way of doing things. We
will, and have, consulted with experts, gotten second opinions and are
searching for more, and hoepfully the suits will find it an advantageous way
to go.

I'm a linux nad Win user myself, and my company pushes both solutions for
desktops and servers, but you're wrong if you think that MS limits your
choices in any way. I find that most users are limited at the desktop in
Linux, there are no limits, except administration of Win boxes when using
a Linux based server installations. You're free to continue down your path
of thinking that Win is a problem or limits you some way, but you need to
take a realistic look at what you can do in your daily environments under
Linux before you make the switch.

You mentioned 9 months to setup a test environment, well, if you were
serious it would take about a month and then schedule a change over during
the next month, at least that's our experience with under 500 users.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

If SP-2 "bolluxed up so many systems at my station" what did they have in
common?
Since you have many computers, did you test SP-2 on a small sampling before
installing?
Was all the software and hardware compatible with SP-2 as verified by the
manufacturer?

 

[Guest]

You mentioned 9 months to setup a test environment, well, if you were
serious it would take about a month and then schedule a change over during
the next month, at least that's our experience with under 500 users.

Because this is the speed the administration here moves at. i have no
control over that. And there are serious budgetary issues as well. I will
consifer myself luck if I have a definitive answer within a year.

 

[Don Taylor]

You have to wonder..

Marketing and particularly sales folks can easily tell you the
answer to your question, if you piss off a customer sufficiently
they will carry a grudge against you, and tell other customers,
for a long long time.

Me, I still use Windows, I just wish they would fix the problems.

 

[Don Taylor]

No one really minds a rant about anything MS as long as you back it up
with details so that people can understand the problem - to just state the
SP2 screwed up everything so you went to Linux just looks like a trolling,
even if it isn't.

That certainly seems fair.

Ok, hundreds of people reported in this newsgroup the problem with
Windows Explorer locking up or crashing starting immediately after
SP2 was installed. (Likely a far larger number saw this and have
no idea that this newsgroup even exists, or want to post here)
Almost none of those folks ever reported finding a solution to
this problem. The modest number who did report a solution seem
like some of them might not have had the same problem that all the
rest had. Nobody has a clue how to fix this problem.

The fact that you had problems is well worth discussing, as other will
learn from your solutions, but it's all in the details. If you had posted
the products that you were having problems with we might have been able to
assist before you went to production.

MVP have no idea how to fix this. Microsoft support folks have no
idea how to fix this. They finally stopped answering email after
I had done everything they had asked for months, often doing the
same thing repeatedly, because apparently they had lost track that
they had already asked me to do something more than once.

SP2 broke something in Windows Explorer and nobody knows what it
was, or they aren't telling. Search the group for the hundreds
of summary postings I made in response to people posting this
particular problem, you can then see the very similar descriptions
of all these folks, and that pretty much none of the claimed
causes fixed this for almost anyone.

Maybe as you suggest you can assist or people will learn from this.

Thank you