So what email program is actually being distributed on Windows 7 machines?

[Anthony Buckland]

There's a back and forth, with no obvious end in sight, in
which users ask what version of Outlook Express comes
with Windows 7 and those in the know point out that
Windows is no longer going to come with, or attached to,
or associated with, _any_ mail (and news) program.

But let's approach this from another angle. Machines are
being, or about to be, distributed, put on store shelves,
with Windows 7 installed. No purchaser in their right
mind is going to say, "Oh, there's no email capacity on
this machine? OK, I don't care." Because they do care.
They expect to walk out of the store with a machine which,
in the OS or some piece of preinstalled software, will
perform all the standard functions, including browsing,
email, some middle level of word processing, some middle
level of spreadsheeting, and some kind of image processing.

So what are these moderately demanding consumers,
meaning most of us, actually getting? What is actually on
the hard disks of the first Windows 7 machines to handle
email. Not as a download, but as something that's already
there?

 

[Bruce Hagen]

There's a back and forth, with no obvious end in sight, in
which users ask what version of Outlook Express comes
with Windows 7 and those in the know point out that
Windows is no longer going to come with, or attached to,
or associated with, _any_ mail (and news) program.

But let's approach this from another angle. Machines are
being, or about to be, distributed, put on store shelves,
with Windows 7 installed. No purchaser in their right
mind is going to say, "Oh, there's no email capacity on
this machine? OK, I don't care." Because they do care.
They expect to walk out of the store with a machine which,
in the OS or some piece of preinstalled software, will
perform all the standard functions, including browsing,
email, some middle level of word processing, some middle
level of spreadsheeting, and some kind of image processing.

So what are these moderately demanding consumers,
meaning most of us, actually getting? What is actually on
the hard disks of the first Windows 7 machines to handle
email. Not as a download, but as something that's already
there?

All development for Outlook Express and Windows Mail (for Vista only) ceased
in June of 2006.

There is no e-mail client included it Win 7. You choose your own, i.e.
Windows Live Mail, MS Outlook, or escape MS altogether and get a program
such as Thunderbird.

 

[N. Miller]

There's a back and forth, with no obvious end in sight, in
which users ask what version of Outlook Express comes
with Windows 7 and those in the know point out that
Windows is no longer going to come with, or attached to,
or associated with, _any_ mail (and news) program.

But let's approach this from another angle. Machines are
being, or about to be, distributed, put on store shelves,
with Windows 7 installed. No purchaser in their right
mind is going to say, "Oh, there's no email capacity on
this machine? OK, I don't care." Because they do care.
They expect to walk out of the store with a machine which,
in the OS or some piece of preinstalled software, will
perform all the standard functions, including browsing,
email, some middle level of word processing, some middle
level of spreadsheeting, and some kind of image processing.

So what are these moderately demanding consumers,
meaning most of us, actually getting? What is actually on
the hard disks of the first Windows 7 machines to handle
email. Not as a download, but as something that's already
there?

I suspect that the OEM compute manufacturers are going to include something;
maybe Windows Live Essentials, maybe something else. Mozilla Thunderbird
might be a good candidate for an OEM install.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Gotta browser? Can you reach http://mail.google.com or http://mail.live.com
or http://mail.yahoo.com using the browser? Then you've got access to
email.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

There's a back and forth, with no obvious end in sight, in
which users ask what version of Outlook Express comes
with Windows 7 and those in the know point out that
Windows is no longer going to come with, or attached to,
or associated with, _any_ mail (and news) program.

But let's approach this from another angle. Machines are
being, or about to be, distributed, put on store shelves,
with Windows 7 installed. No purchaser in their right
mind is going to say, "Oh, there's no email capacity on
this machine? OK, I don't care." Because they do care.
They expect to walk out of the store with a machine which,
in the OS or some piece of preinstalled software, will
perform all the standard functions, including browsing,
email, some middle level of word processing, some middle
level of spreadsheeting, and some kind of image processing.

So what are these moderately demanding consumers,
meaning most of us, actually getting? What is actually on
the hard disks of the first Windows 7 machines to handle
email. Not as a download, but as something that's already
there?

Nothing. If you get Windows 7 and want an e-mail client, you need to
buy whichever one you prefer, or download a freeware e-mail client you
like. The choice is yours.

This is essentially no different than it is with many other categories
of programs. Windows doesn't come with a spreadsheet program, graphics
editor (except for the trivial Paint) pdf reader, anti-virus, etc.

 

[mcp6453]

All development for Outlook Express and Windows Mail (for Vista only)
ceased in June of 2006.

There is no e-mail client included it Win 7. You choose your own, i.e.
Windows Live Mail, MS Outlook, or escape MS altogether and get a program
such as Thunderbird.

Thunderbird is an EXCELLENT email program. It is easy to use and powerful.

 

[Anthony Buckland]

Nothing. If you get Windows 7 and want an e-mail client, you need to
buy whichever one you prefer, or download a freeware e-mail client you
like. The choice is yours.

This is essentially no different than it is with many other categories
of programs. Windows doesn't come with a spreadsheet program, graphics
editor (except for the trivial Paint) pdf reader, anti-virus, etc.
...

Agreed. _Windows_ doesn't come with a spreadsheet program, etc,
etc., but I haven't purchased a _machine_ in the last decade which didn't
come loaded with at least Microsoft Works (and in one case a trial
version of Office). And of course a great slew of sometimes useful,
sometimes not, other software. I'll stick with my original point, that
I think a big proportion of buyers expect to unpack, plug in, go
through a few rituals, and then find they can do all the basic tasks
right away, without having to buy any software other than for their
particular fields of interest (which for a first-time family member
entering the world of computer ownership likely don't exist yet).
Manufacturers know this, and so do software companies. I'm going
to be amazed if I walk into, say, London Drugs (Canadian) and find
a machine which hasn't had a mail program included in its OEM load.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Agreed. _Windows_ doesn't come with a spreadsheet program, etc,
etc., but I haven't purchased a _machine_ in the last decade which didn't
come loaded with at least Microsoft Works (and in one case a trial
version of Office).

That may be your experience, but let me point out three things:

1. Coming "loaded" with Microsoft Works (if you think having Microsoft
Works makes it loaded--I don't) or a trial version of anything has
*nothing* to do with Windows or Microsoft. It's the OEM you bought
from that elected to sell the computer that way.

2. If I bought a computer that came with Microsoft Works, one of the
first things I would do with it is uninstall Microsoft Works.I have no
interest in such software.

3. I have *never* purchased a computer that came with *any* such
software (and I've been buying computers for over two decades). That's
because I don't buy OEM computers. Instead I have my machines custom
built for me, and I buy whatever software I *want* for it.

And of course a great slew of sometimes useful,
sometimes not, other software. I'll stick with my original point, that
I think a big proportion of buyers expect to unpack, plug in, go
through a few rituals, and then find they can do all the basic tasks

You are certainly right. That's what most people expect and want. But
you said "Machines are being, or about to be, distributed, put on
store shelves, with Windows 7 installed. No purchaser in their right
mind is going to say, 'Oh, there's no email capacity on
this machine? OK, I don't care.' Because they do care."

Yes, they care. No argument from me. But the reason they care is that
they are used to *OEMS* selling computers with installed software.
This has next to nothing to do with Windows 7 or with Microsoft. If
OEMs want to attract customers they can sell their Windows 7 machines
with some e-mail software installed on them; it's the OEM's choice and
it's really no different from selling them with Works, Adobe Acrobat,
etc.

Will OEMs bundle some freeware or shareware e-mail software with their
Windows 7 machines? I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't be
surprised if they did.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

I wouldn't be surprised if you found a shortcut to Windows Live Essentials
(http://download.live.com) on the desktop of most OEM Win7 computers. You
might even find that the Windows Live Essentials all-in-one installer is
actually pre-installed on some computers, too, but I very much doubt that
you'd find Windows Live Mail or any other Windows Live applications
themselves preinstalled.

 

[JIM FUTRELL]

There's a back and forth, with no obvious end in sight, in
which users ask what version of Outlook Express comes
with Windows 7 and those in the know point out that
Windows is no longer going to come with, or attached to,
or associated with, _any_ mail (and news) program.

But let's approach this from another angle. Machines are
being, or about to be, distributed, put on store shelves,
with Windows 7 installed. No purchaser in their right
mind is going to say, "Oh, there's no email capacity on
this machine? OK, I don't care." Because they do care.
They expect to walk out of the store with a machine which,
in the OS or some piece of preinstalled software, will
perform all the standard functions, including browsing,
email, some middle level of word processing, some middle
level of spreadsheeting, and some kind of image processing.

So what are these moderately demanding consumers,
meaning most of us, actually getting? What is actually on
the hard disks of the first Windows 7 machines to handle
email. Not as a download, but as something that's already
there?


I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY VISTA WINDOWS MAIL SHUTS DOWN EVERY TIME YOU FORWARD AN E-MAIL. VISTA IS INFERIOR TO WINDOWS XP & IS BEING REPLACED BY WINDOWS 7, WHICH IF I READ THIS MOST CONFUSING POST, DOES NOT HAVE E-MAIL,

I DOWNLOADED WINDOWS 7 INTO MY TOSHIBA 64 BIT LAP TOP BUT THE FILE DIDN'T
SAVE AND IS NOT ACCESSIBLE. I WISH I COULD AFFORD A MAC.

 

[Anthony Buckland]

...
I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY VISTA WINDOWS MAIL SHUTS DOWN EVERY TIME YOU
FORWARD AN E-MAIL. ...

You're "shouting" by using all caps, and you're way off-topic.
This bugs people. Anyhow, I've just come out of a
similar experience (caveat: may have nothing to do with your
problem, but anyway ... ). I recently installed the latest version of Zone
Alarm Extreme Security on two different machines running WinXP
(one Media Center edition, one Home edition). Both machines
use Outlook Express 6.0 for mail and news. Each machine
started running into a shut-down problem, occasionally, not
"every time", during forwarding. I turned off the Junk E-mail filter,
and the problem seems to have gone away . Also, mail processing
has become much faster.

Did you by any chance install this latest Zone Alarm?
Note: the filter, if on at all, is used on outgoing mail as well
as incoming.

I have no idea of the degree of interaction between ZA and
the operating system and/or mail software, but it seems not
too improbable that the same problem could turn up with
a different Windows version and different mail software.
I may be able to find out more on the ZA forum.

 

[SC Tom]

I DOWNLOADED WINDOWS 7 INTO MY TOSHIBA 64 BIT LAP TOP BUT THE FILE DIDN'T
SAVE AND IS NOT ACCESSIBLE. I WISH I COULD AFFORD A MAC.

We also wish you could ;-)

 

[SC Tom]

You're "shouting" by using all caps, and you're way off-topic.
This bugs people. Anyhow, I've just come out of a
similar experience (caveat: may have nothing to do with your
problem, but anyway ... ). I recently installed the latest version of
Zone
Alarm Extreme Security on two different machines running WinXP
(one Media Center edition, one Home edition). Both machines
use Outlook Express 6.0 for mail and news. Each machine
started running into a shut-down problem, occasionally, not
"every time", during forwarding. I turned off the Junk E-mail filter,
and the problem seems to have gone away . Also, mail processing
has become much faster.

Did you by any chance install this latest Zone Alarm?
Note: the filter, if on at all, is used on outgoing mail as well
as incoming.

I have no idea of the degree of interaction between ZA and
the operating system and/or mail software, but it seems not
too improbable that the same problem could turn up with
a different Windows version and different mail software.
I may be able to find out more on the ZA forum.

I've used Zone Alarm for a number of years now (currently ZA Security
Suite), and the Junk email filter does cause quite a delay and/or lock-ups
in sending/receiving on both my XP and Vista PC's. For that reason, I've
disabled it. When using OE in XP or Windows Mail in Vista, I've written a
couple of rules to determine what is spam/junk and what should be passed
through. I also use the Block Sender option quite often. I don't see much
spam in my inbox any more, and the rules are quite simple to write, and
don't cause the lags that ZA did.
Since Win7 won't be having an email/news client with it, I installed and
played with Mozilla Thunderbird. That may not be my final choice, but it's
definitely in the lead. With some add-in features and a little tweaking, it
looks and acts very similar to OE. Plus it has its own built-in junk filter.

SC Tom

 

[M]

I've used Zone Alarm for a number of years now (currently ZA Security
Suite), and the Junk email filter does cause quite a delay and/or
lock-ups in sending/receiving on both my XP and Vista PC's. For that
reason, I've disabled it. When using OE in XP or Windows Mail in Vista,
I've written a couple of rules to determine what is spam/junk and what
should be passed through. I also use the Block Sender option quite
often. I don't see much spam in my inbox any more, and the rules are
quite simple to write, and don't cause the lags that ZA did.
Since Win7 won't be having an email/news client with it, I installed and
played with Mozilla Thunderbird. That may not be my final choice, but
it's definitely in the lead. With some add-in features and a little
tweaking, it looks and acts very similar to OE. Plus it has its own
built-in junk filter.

SC Tom

And you can add a calendar and Quick Text for template emails.

M

 

[smlunatick]

I wouldn't be surprised if you found a shortcut to Windows Live Essentials
(http://download.live.com) on the desktop of most OEM Win7 computers.  You
might even find that the Windows Live Essentials all-in-one installer is
actually pre-installed on some computers, too, but I very much doubt that
you'd find Windows Live Mail or any other Windows Live applications
themselves preinstalled.

I just completed a Vista Ultimate 64 bit install and I do believe it
also gave a link to Windows Live downloads.