So many variants, so little time

M

/mel/

I've given up trying to figure out the performance differences between 9600,
9700, 9800. Then there's bog-standard or SE or Pro. I do know what AIW is at
least.

So, question: is a 128MB 9800Pro AIW a reasonable upgrade for my ageing 64MB
8500 AIW? Yeah, I know, 256MB would be better. I'm not into state-of-the-art
any more. And is £140 a good price to pay for a second-hand card?
 
B

Bobby

The 9800 Pro is a great card.

But £140 is crap for a used card.

You can get new ones for £130.

Bobby
 
M

/mel/

Bobby said:
The 9800 Pro is a great card.

But £140 is crap for a used card.

You can get new ones for £130.

What, an AIW? I'm not entirely sure how much cost the AIW adds, but I either
need an AIW or I'll have to buy a seperate TV card.
 
Z

Z28

/mel/ said:
What, an AIW? I'm not entirely sure how much cost the AIW adds, but I
either
need an AIW or I'll have to buy a seperate TV card.

What is that, about $170 US? I think that is a good price for an 9800 Pro
AIW. AIW's are more expensive than standard ATI cards. You'll be happy with
the 9800 Pro
 
J

Julian Richards

What, an AIW? I'm not entirely sure how much cost the AIW adds, but I either
need an AIW or I'll have to buy a seperate TV card.

Go for a separate TV card. If one part fails then you've bust all. If
you want to update part, you have to update all.

--

Julian Richards
computer "at" richardsuk.f9.co.uk

XP Home
L7S7A2 motherboard
Powercolor 9800 SE 8 pipelines 438/364 with Omega drivers
1 GB RAM
10 GB + 80 GB HDs
CD+DVD/CDRW drives
 
J

Jason Ash

I've given up trying to figure out the performance differences between
9600, 9700, 9800. Then there's bog-standard or SE or Pro. I do know
what AIW is at least.

So, question: is a 128MB 9800Pro AIW a reasonable upgrade for my
ageing 64MB 8500 AIW? Yeah, I know, 256MB would be better. I'm not
into state-of-the-art any more. And is £140 a good price to pay for a
second-hand card?

SEs are slower (therefore cheaper) versions of the vanilla 9X00s.
Ussually by sacrificing a couple of pipelines.

Pros have all the pipelines (possibly more than the non-Pro), and higher
clock speeds.

Friend of mine just got a new 9600, to replace a very disappointing
GeforceFX 5200 (that he made the mistake of going to a local store that
charges outrageous prices, and told him that it was "one of the faster
cards" This was several months back, so no hope of returns)

Myself, I've got a 9700Pro, and am quite happy with it.

--
-------------------------------------
Reply to for SPAM only

All others use:
m0ng0lh0rde @ ukonline . co . uk

Remove spaces to send
Thank you
-------------------------------------
 
J

J. Clarke

Julian said:
Go for a separate TV card. If one part fails then you've bust all. If
you want to update part, you have to update all.

Personally I had AIWs for many years and went with a separate tuner board
when HDTV became available in my area. I subsequently replaced my AIW with
a "regular" ATI board and found that I didn't really miss the AIW. And it
was nice to have real dual-monitor support instead of one monitor and one
TV.
 
M

/mel/

Julian said:
Go for a separate TV card. If one part fails then you've bust all. If
you want to update part, you have to update all.

I hear what you're saying, but I already fell into the trap with the 8500!
If I had some confidence that the USB2 TV peripherals were any good...
 
M

/mel/

Jason said:
SEs are slower (therefore cheaper) versions of the vanilla 9X00s.
Ussually by sacrificing a couple of pipelines.

Pros have all the pipelines (possibly more than the non-Pro), and
higher clock speeds.

I'd figured as much. Funny how Special Edition really means "we took bits
out specially!" =;-)
Friend of mine just got a new 9600, to replace a very disappointing
GeforceFX 5200 (that he made the mistake of going to a local store
that charges outrageous prices, and told him that it was "one of the
faster cards" This was several months back, so no hope of returns)

Myself, I've got a 9700Pro, and am quite happy with it.

Is it 9600, 9700, 9800 in terms of increasing capability/speed?
 
G

GTD

-snip
Is it 9600, 9700, 9800 in terms of increasing capability/speed?

Yes, that's their order of performance.

I have the 9800pro, and I'm real happy with it, still. My kid has the
9600 pro and I'm amazed how well it performs considering just where it
is in the grand scheme of things these days. It's hardly ever
mentioned in benchmarks these days, but it does a good job.
 
P

Paul Murphy

/mel/ said:
Julian Richards wrote:
If I had some confidence that the USB2 TV peripherals were any good...
The External TV Wonders have not traditionally been available outside of the
US and Canada (certainly not here in the UK anyway). Even if it was
available to buy from the USA on the web, I'd be wary of doing so as its
likely only for NTSC broadcast format (what they use in USA/Canada) and not
PAL (I) as used in the UK - so it wouldn't work here as a tuner.

The old argument that if an AIW cards tuner breaks the whole card needs to
be repaired/replaced, while being correct is extremely unlikely. If you live
in a part of the UK where TV Aerials are often struck by lightning (don't
know where that would be...) then consider a seperate card otherwise don't
worry about it. I've owned 3 ATI cards all of which have been AIW versions
(including an AIW 8500DV the same as yours) and have had no such problems
(even in spite of a dodgy loft aerial amplifier which overamplified the
signal). The convenience of AIWs including the fact that you don't need to
use a PCI slot is well worth the extra cost - a cost which would be recouped
in the second hand value of the card should you decide to sell it in order
to upgrade. Be aware that in terms of features, the card you currently have,
while not the fastest out there is actually the most well equipped in terms
of connection features because it also has a firewire connection. Even the
latest and greatest don't do that anymore. What is it that you need to do
which makes you want to upgrade your existing card? If its run games faster,
your money may be better spent on a general PC upgrade (depending on your
existing system specs).

Paul
 
S

Steve Mellor

Jason said:
SEs are slower (therefore cheaper) versions of the vanilla 9X00s.
Ussually by sacrificing a couple of pipelines.

Pros have all the pipelines (possibly more than the non-Pro), and
higher clock speeds.

Do you know of a utility or a program that can report on how many pipelines
a card has? I've bought what's supposedly a AIW 9800 Pro, but I'm getting
conflicting information as to whether it's actually a Pro or an SE.

It's an R350, with 128MB and clock speeds of 308/340MHz, but other than that
I can't tell.
Friend of mine just got a new 9600, to replace a very disappointing
GeforceFX 5200 (that he made the mistake of going to a local store
that charges outrageous prices, and told him that it was "one of the
faster cards" This was several months back, so no hope of returns)

Myself, I've got a 9700Pro, and am quite happy with it.

/mel/
 
J

Jason Ash

[snip]

Do you know of a utility or a program that can report on how many
pipelines a card has? I've bought what's supposedly a AIW 9800 Pro,
but I'm getting conflicting information as to whether it's actually a
Pro or an SE.

It's an R350, with 128MB and clock speeds of 308/340MHz, but other
than that I can't tell.
[snip]

Nope, I don't know of such a utility, but there may be such a thing.

--
-------------------------------------
Reply to for SPAM only

All others use:
m0ng0lh0rde @ ukonline . co . uk

Remove spaces to send
Thank you
-------------------------------------
 
M

/mel/

Jason said:
Jason said:
I've given up trying to figure out the performance differences
between 9600, 9700, 9800. Then there's bog-standard or SE or Pro. I
do know what AIW is at least.
[snip]

Do you know of a utility or a program that can report on how many
pipelines a card has? I've bought what's supposedly a AIW 9800 Pro,
but I'm getting conflicting information as to whether it's actually a
Pro or an SE.

It's an R350, with 128MB and clock speeds of 308/340MHz, but other
than that I can't tell.
[snip]

Nope, I don't know of such a utility, but there may be such a thing.

There is: http://www.lavalys.com/news.php?article=21&selcat=PN&lang=en

/mel/
 
P

Paul Murphy

/mel/ said:
Jason said:
Jason Ash wrote:

I've given up trying to figure out the performance differences
between 9600, 9700, 9800. Then there's bog-standard or SE or Pro. I
do know what AIW is at least.
[snip]

Do you know of a utility or a program that can report on how many
pipelines a card has? I've bought what's supposedly a AIW 9800 Pro,
but I'm getting conflicting information as to whether it's actually a
Pro or an SE.

It's an R350, with 128MB and clock speeds of 308/340MHz, but other
than that I can't tell.
[snip]

Nope, I don't know of such a utility, but there may be such a thing.

There is: http://www.lavalys.com/news.php?article=21&selcat=PN&lang=en

/mel/
If this utility does actually check the GPUs capabilities it must rely on a
database and use the relevant data according to PnP IDs (and other methods
of hardware identification) within the system. I tried it on my Radeon
8500DV and although it has a GPU icon, clicking on this gave a blank screen
in the right column - i.e. it provided no data about my GPU at all. I cant
see how any software could actually test for the number of working pipelines
anyway and using hardware ID isn't going to be effective in this situation
due the modded cards out there (so called soft and hard mods to "open
pipelines" that were supposedly closed at manufacture).

Paul
 
M

/mel/

Paul said:
Do you know of a utility or a program that can report on how many
pipelines a card has? I've bought what's supposedly a AIW 9800 Pro,
but I'm getting conflicting information as to whether it's
actually a Pro or an SE.

It's an R350, with 128MB and clock speeds of 308/340MHz, but other
than that I can't tell.

[snip]

Nope, I don't know of such a utility, but there may be such a thing.

There is:
http://www.lavalys.com/news.php?article=21&selcat=PN&lang=en

/mel/
If this utility does actually check the GPUs capabilities it must
rely on a database and use the relevant data according to PnP IDs
(and other methods of hardware identification) within the system. I
tried it on my Radeon 8500DV and although it has a GPU icon, clicking
on this gave a blank screen in the right column - i.e. it provided no
data about my GPU at all. I cant see how any software could actually
test for the number of working pipelines anyway and using hardware ID
isn't going to be effective in this situation due the modded cards
out there (so called soft and hard mods to "open pipelines" that were
supposedly closed at manufacture).

Point taken, though actually I get full (and correct) info for my AIW8500DV
(see below). Is yours an ATI card?

Also, ATITool reports only 4 pipelines for my [supposed] AIW9800Pro, and it
does indeed appear that what I have is not a Pro variant at all.

I suspect that the info is picked up from the card BIOS or the driver, and
not from interrogating the hardware directly, but I think I have enough
proof now to know that I've been supplied with the wrong card.

Output for an AIW8500DV -

Graphics Processor Properties:
Video Adapter ATI Radeon 8500
(R200) (ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500 DV Edition)
GPU Code Name R200
PCI Device 1002 / 4242
Transistors 60 million
Process Technology 0.15u
Bus Type AGP 4x
Memory Size 64 MB
GPU Clock 230 MHz (original:
230 MHz)
RAMDAC Clock 400 MHz
Pixel Pipelines 4
TMU Per Pipeline 2
Vertex Shaders 1 (v1.1)
Pixel Shaders 1 (v1.4)
DirectX Hardware Support DirectX v8.1
Pixel Fillrate 920 MPixel/s
Texel Fillrate 1840 MTexel/s

Memory Bus Properties:
Bus Type DDR
Bus Width 128-bit
Real Clock 190 MHz (DDR)
(original: 190 MHz)
Effective Clock 380 MHz
Bandwidth 6080 MB/s

Graphics Processor Manufacturer:
Company Name ATI Technologies
Inc.
Product Information
http://www.ati.com/products/gamer.html
Driver Download
http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html




/mel/
 

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